Should I farm land I don't live on?

[norcalfarm]

I haven't posted much recently, you will see why below. I'm trying to kick things off again.

Two years ago we purchased 6 acres. Three acres is slope while the other three acres is valley bottom with some of the best soil in this area. To date, I have only found 2 rocks. We thought we were getting through the beaurocracy to start building but now after a recent road block, it appears it may be a while. The land is in the city limits but on the outskirts. It is only about 3 minutes from many businesses including a hardware store.

When we purchased the property, we moved from our former house on ten acres that had terrible soil and was all a 30% slope. We sold or gave away all of our animals except a few chickens. We moved into a rental in town and have not been able to keep animals or do more than a couple garden boxes ever since. As much as we would love to live on the property, we also just want to grow/raise our own food.

So my questions are these:

Has anybody farmed a piece of land that they did not live on? My property is surrounded by open land, canyons, ridges etc so wildlife will be a factor. There are other residences but it is very much an intermix.

If you have done it, how successfull were you and how did you achieve it? What tips might you have for keeping animals away? I own a maremma(LGD) but we cannot take her out there until we live there.

How much of a burden would it be? My drive would be 20 minute round trip - not terrible but far enough that it may wear on us daily.

What might I be successful with? - garden, bees, fruit trees, goats. The property is almost completely fenced, I could easily finish it. I just planted 10 fruit trees and fenced (48" field fence) a large enough area for the trees and a garden. I just don't know how successful I will be with deer and other critters.

I would have to pay $4,000 to have a water meter installed and pay a minimum of $30/month for service. My wife and I were talking about trying to look at it as a business if we go this route. We have four children so it will save us a lot of money and it would be nice to sell something from the property to pay our taxes and water bill at a minimum, although that will probably be offset by our grocery store savings.

If you want pictures, please view my blog below.

Thank you!

[mainehomesteader]

Why aren't you living on the land? I know, there's no house. I've seen trailers for sale on Craigslist for cheap.

[7thswan]

Originally Posted by PatrickDeBoard

Why aren't you living on the land? I know, there's no house. I've seen trailers for sale on Craigslist for cheap.

Laws. Building codes. Permits.Regulations.Child protective services....

[7thswan]

Sure you can. We did it. We had beef cattle. Hauling water was work. No elec. so we had trouble with fencing, solar wasen't hot enough.
eta. after reading a bit, sounds like you are going to have a heck of a time with gov. officials. Sounds like they do not want you to build. Also sold your other place on LC. Hope that works out for you. It hasen't for us. We sold on a 5 yr. then gave them another year after they defalted,that was up in Nov. Now we have to deal with that. The people that bought from us-off grid-works for himself. Getting a loan can be tough. I'd stop spending $ on the place until you get all your permits.

[mainehomesteader]

Originally Posted by 7thswan

Laws. Building codes. Permits.Regulations.Child protective services....

I just read his blog. What a nightmare.

[FarmboyBill]

I would have put the trees on the highest slope. Course, the deer will likely get them. Where I was born raised, they put 40 apple trees on the steepest slope, but which was at the house at the upper end of it. Id save the bottom ground for farm/garden/ Sounds like tho your fighting an uphill battle.

[7thswan]

Originally Posted by PatrickDeBoard

I just read his blog. What a nightmare.

Ya, I didn't read it before I posted that post. The land we sold, instant trouble with the gov. What a fight -I-had to do for the people I sold to on land contract because I was still the deed holder.

[Patchouli]

Just looked at your blog. I have to say I would seriously consider just scrapping that property and buying somewhere else. You could buy pretty much anywhere in the center or southeast of the US and have no building codes whatsoever.
To answer your question we have run cattle on acerage about 5 minutes away with no problems. Like 7thswan mentioned it was a pain hauling water but otherwise no real problems. My big concerns with a garden and fruit trees would be human theft and animal problems.

[Terri]

My land is 20 miles away from my home.

Asparagus has well done there, but make certain your roots are strong! Those tiny roots in baggies will not do a thing for you. The roots I planted were from www.Morgancountyseeds.com, and they were EXCELLENT! One pound was only 3 roots. I got a 97% stand the first year, though bad weather killed some later on. They survive well under dry conditions but the roots that have done the best are by the creek.

Tomatos failed, fruit trees are living but not doing well, daffodils ae AWESOME, and daylillies were (I think), eaten by deer.

My bees have a higher death rate than backyard bees: I set up a trap there eventually to catch swarms but no longer mess with bees out there.

There was a man who kept cattle on his land outside of town, BUT! It was between his home and his work, and so he could-and did- stop by every day and checked their water.

There was another man I heard of who puzzled everyone in the area because he raised Charlais cattle, and everybody else was raising angus. He finally confessed that he raised Charlais because they were white, and he worked during daylight hours. With white cattle he could see them after work.

Now, I never dared to keep livestock on my land because I CANNOT check them every day, and if the stock runs out of water or ges out I will not know it for WAAY too long! Though the asparagus and the daffodils are very happy, and the fruit trees are, so far, alive.

[Akita]

Many years ago my parents planted a HUGE garden on the farm while they still lived in town. Someone stole every single bit of their produce. After they took all the corn, Dad plowed the entire garden under. Then whoever it was put dirt in the fuel lines on the tractor.
Unfortunately, people aren't honest anymore. I would never have animals where I couldn't just open the door to check on them.

[norcalfarm]

As far as scrapping it goes, I have considered that many times along the way. This property is literally our dream property. You can't find a house on land like this for under $350,000. We have stopped and looked at real estate many times and every time come back to this feeling like this is where we belong. Even those properties don't have land like this. In the end I think it will be worth while. I am tied with work to this area. I have a great job and retirement here, it would not be worth moving.

As far as theft goes, the property is only visible from a few houses and we know the owners. The garden area and all of the area where we plan to build is not visible from the road and is well gates. It would be a long walk for somebody to steal anything from me. They would also have to park directly in front of another house.

We discussed planting the trees on the slope but after moving off of a slope we were very excited about farming flat ground.

Terri, Thank you for the info. Did you have water or did you have to truck it in? Did you do anything in particular to keep animals away from you garden?

[gander801]

Just read your blog about the septic being denied. I too was denied by the county to put in a septic system. I went out and hired a soil scientist and they came back and said that i could put my septic system in cost a few extra dollars but it worked out for me. The soil scientist overrides the county here in the southeast corner of Georgia.

[FarmboyBill]

I looked at a couple places that were on the edge of town. Town laws were still in effect. Couldn't have cows, hogs, or any big number of chickens.

Back 30yrs ago in NE kans and around that area in other adjoining states. Farmers lost their tractors by leaving them in fields they didn't own/live on/near. It got so bad the FBI was called in. They put up an amnesty, and tractors actually ended up on main street in Troy Kansas.

[Deerefarmer41]

I live 26 miles from my farm. It is a small farm, only 44 acres. 99 % is hay gound and 1% concord grapes.
During growing season the irrigation water has to be changed at least every 24 hrs. I am out there working almost everyday, so that is not a problem. Not had much problem with theft, one guy tried to steal a 2000 lb. bale of hay. When he pushed it off the top of the stack, into his pickup, the frame broke in half. As a retired police officer, that is known as"roadside justice".
Take all the precaution you can , and get right with it. Am sure you will enjoy your time spent out there. Does a lot to clear the mind.

[mainehomesteader]

Do you need a septic system if you use composting toilets and save your grey water for the garden? I have no idea, myself.

[geo in mi]

1) The land is in the city limits but on the outskirts
2) I would have to pay $4,000 to have a water meter installed and pay a minimum of $30/month for service
3) it would be nice to sell something from the property

Seeing as how you have already had unpleasant, and costly experience with your septic system, I would think you might expect the Joe Salatin statement to be true...: "Everything I want to do is illegal."

Getting enough water for crops and animals.................
Getting permission to even have animals..................
Getting permission to have roadside sales................
Following further codes and building regulations..........
Having outbuildings...................................... ..........
Use of phosphate free fertilizers...............................
Noise and odor complaints........................................

I don't think "homesteading" there would be worth fighting city hall.

My opinion. Not wanting to be a wet blanket.

geo

[Cygnet]

My folks gardened here before they moved in full time. Takes a good fence, particularly if you have large critters, plus protection from small critters. They had to fence out elk, cattle, and then cage the beds to keep out squirrels/mice/etc. Watering was on a timer, from a tank.

Re: your septic problem, per your blog. I would be highly suspicious that whoever is in charge of permits benefits from the installation of the more expensive engineered system, or a family member does, or they're getting a kickback. That, or they'd like to buy your land. Follow the money, most likely.

In our area, the guys responsible for perc tests ... also install engineered septic systems. Yeah. Nobody's land percs any more. I just assume that when I finally buy property of my own up here, I'll have to cough up $30,000 for an engineered system, and probably another $40,000 for a well that'll be up to code and deep enough to produce sufficient water for gardening. At least it keeps the cost of land down ...

(The last person in our community also had to install a UV filter on his well because there was "too much sediment." No bacteria, just a very small amount of silt that would have settled out in the holding tank he was installing anyway.)

It is all about $$$$. And yeah, it's a conflict of interest, but that's just how this county works.

[Terri]

Originally Posted by norcalfarm

Terri, Thank you for the info. Did you have water or did you have to truck it in? Did you do anything in particular to keep animals away from you garden?

How irritating: my post went *POOF*!

In a nutshell: no I had no animal protection. That might be why my daylilies vanished and my daffodils are lookin' good: daylilies are edible and daffodils are not!

I was rather handicapped even back then, so I did NOT haul water from the creek uphill to the asparagus. Instead if it had been a week since the last rain I put jugs of water in the car and I carried the jugs downhill to the asparagus. Because I planted the asparagus roots at the beginning of the rainy season I did not have to carry water very often! I stopped watering entirely once the roots looked established.

It helped that I only had 100 asparagus roots, for home use. I have fewer roots now, as there was a drought and I am not as strong as I was back then. If DS is good with helping me, I may put in more roots of the Martha Washington variety, as I think they will spread and the extra-large hybrid I have now has not spread at ALL!

Edited to add: my son has agreed to help me this spring when I put in more asparagus roots, and so I will be planting more. The usual rates apply: I pay minimum wage plus a trip to sonic for a snack. So i will be planting more.

[norcalfarm]

Originally Posted by geo in mi

1) The land is in the city limits but on the outskirts
2) I would have to pay $4,000 to have a water meter installed and pay a minimum of $30/month for service
3) it would be nice to sell something from the property

Seeing as how you have already had unpleasant, and costly experience with your septic system, I would think you might expect the Joe Salatin statement to be true...: "Everything I want to do is illegal."

Getting enough water for crops and animals.................
Getting permission to even have animals..................
Getting permission to have roadside sales................
Following further codes and building regulations..........
Having outbuildings...................................... ..........
Use of phosphate free fertilizers...............................
Noise and odor complaints........................................

I don't think "homesteading" there would be worth fighting city hall.

My opinion. Not wanting to be a wet blanket.

geo

The property is zoned ag/results so I am Allowed a fair amount if livestock. Unfortunately I can't have any real infrastructure until there is a house on the property. However you may be correct, they may fight me every step of the way.

I have been keeping a time line of all interaction with officials. I already suspect this so we will see where it goes.

[johng]

Ten min. away is not too far to travel so it maybe worth it. But, my biggest concern would be the wildlife you mentioned. I would not even consider it until you have a way to keep the wildlife out of your garden. One deer in one night can cut off all your newly sprouted beans, peas, corn, squash, watermelon, you get the idea. If you can put up a good fence or electric fence it may work out very well for you. Being close to town can have its benefits if you intend to sell any of your extra produce.