Cedar trees for fencing

chromdome35 · #1 02/05/15, 04:17 PM

We currently have about a half acre garden that is surrounded by an 8ft high deer fence. The fence is in pretty bad shape and needs to be replaced.

The existing fence was constructed by using cedar trees planted into the ground. The corner posts(trees) are about 1ft diameter, the posts between the corners tend to be about 6" diameter trees.

Two of the 4 current corner posts have rotted out and several of the other posts have as well. The existing fencing is wire weld fencing, but it was hung without good top support and the previous owners allowed large grape vines to grow into the fence. The result is that the current fence is sagging down and putting additional pressure on the posts.

I am planning on replacing all of the posts and putting in new wire weld fencing.

My question is this...

I have about 50 cut cedar trees that range in diameter from 4" to 10" mostly 12ft plus tall. Can I just auger new holes, drop the trees in and backfill with the dirt? How long should I expect the trees to last? Or do I need to go with rock footings and concrete backfill? Would the trees last longer that way?

Thanks!

COWS · #2 02/05/15, 04:39 PM

You are talking about red cedar, right? 20 years is a good rule of thumb. some will last longer, some less.

COWS

ksfarmer · #3 02/05/15, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COWS

You are talking about red cedar, right? 20 years is a good rule of thumb. some will last longer, some less.

COWS

About the only thing that will last longer is osage orange (bodark). And, yes, I would just make a hole and fill. The larger diameter ones will last longest. 4" or less is a little small.

1shotwade · #4 02/05/15, 05:46 PM

You just can't beat black locust but I don't know if you have them where you are. When I had my place surveyed in 1992 I took a DEAD eastern red cedar about 4" at the big end and set it by a survey stake so i would know where it was. Today it is still standing.Of course there is no stresses on it just standing alone but that should give you some Idea of how long they can last.

Wade

big rockpile · #5 02/05/15, 05:47 PM

I always just punch a hole with Rock Bar and drive Line Post in. Very solid.

big rockpile

haypoint · #6 02/05/15, 05:52 PM

trees have roots. small trunks are called posts. cedar posts are not planted. post holes are augured/dug and posts set into them.
pull the wire off the old posts. pull the old posts out. auger out the old holes. drop the new posts into the holes, fill with dirt.
Wire weld fence doesn't last well. I'd run woven wire from the ground, up. Then finish with several strands of barbed wire. 8 feet tall if you intend to keep out deer. study corner bracing for high tensile fencing and copy it.

chromdome35 · #7 02/05/15, 11:03 PM

Thanks for the responses!

Yes, I'm talking about red cedar. I've already got the 50 cedars cut, limbed and ready to go.

1shotwade, No black locust around here that I've found.

Cranbrook, I don't really understand the first part of your response. My plan was to use 8' Redbrand deer fencing. This stuff http://www.redbrand.com/Products/Dee...sLockKnot.aspx

FarmboyBill · #8 02/06/15, 09:47 AM

Cedars in Okla are now considered a pest tree. Once they get a start, there soon sprouting all over. When I came here I had one. Now I got a doz. In some Okla Counties they are doing a active eradication of them. They use a huge amount of water a day. They kill all the grass below them, and in some places were here talking acres where they've grown unmolested on large ranches. Ive started cutting a young one a year for a Christmas Tree just to get rid of them.

whiterock · #9 02/06/15, 10:38 AM

Strip the bark off of them and they will last longer. Easier to attach wire tightly too.

GeneMO · #10 02/06/15, 08:54 PM

If you have em and they are paid for, use em. As opposed to having to buy something.

That being said, I have never used them. We always had a plentiful supply of Hedge. (Osage Orange, Bois-de-arc, Bodark)

My dad always set HUGE ones. Set them 4 1/2' deep, dug a hole about 3'X3' across (this is for corner posts that have a lot of pull on them) placed the post in, tured it up then filled the hole with concrete. He liked to dig the very bottom the post 6-8" deeper than the main part of the concrete would set up. Dug a little socket for the post to fit down in. That way the bottom of the post projected down below the concrete. The concrete couldn't trap water around the bottom of the post that way.

There are still posts on the farm that are supporting a quarter mile of woven wire (hog wire), are still solid, and he set them in the late 1950's and early 60's.

Hedge is top of the line. Black locust is good also. Cedar will do OK. How long you plan on living? 20 years will do me just fine anymore.

Gene

Mid-MO · #11 02/07/15, 09:31 AM

We've had mixed luck with them and I believe it had to do with not letting them dry out. Some that we cut and put in the ground right away did not last long at all. The others that we let dry for a year lasted about 15 years.

With that said, I'm not sure I would use them again on a perimeter fence unless I was in a bind. Any perimeter fence I want to stay there from now on unless it is damaged by weather, a car, etc.

Do you have any hedge trees in your area? Aside from the few cedars we set, this is all we ever use. We built a cross fence about 20 years ago. Last fall, I was trimming up around that fence and cut a corner to sharp and whacked a hedge post with the bat wing mower where there is a bend in the fence. It felt like I ran into solid concrete. I got off to see what kind of damage I had done to the post figuring that I would have to add "set a new hedge post" to my to do list. Well, that was far from what happened. You could literally barely tell I hit is with the mower. Popped a couple steeples out that was holding the barb wire and that was it.

And we always set them in concrete...

big rockpile · #12 02/08/15, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiterock

Strip the bark off of them and they will last longer. Easier to attach wire tightly too.

Got to agree get closer to the Red Wood. I hear people talking about Digging Post Holes, in 60 years in Missouri Ozarks only Post Hole if have to dig was Corner Post. Most time with them made Rock Post. All the others, punch Small Hole with Rock Bar, stick pointed end of Post in the Hole, drive with a Post Maul like you was driving a nail. Makes a Good solid Fence much better than digging Holes.

big rockpile

big rockpile · #13 02/08/15, 08:49 PM

Just thinking, me and my wife was just talking about this. You being in Arkansas just buy T Post and make Rock Post for your Corners. Fence will last your life time.

big rockpile

FarmboyBill · #14 02/08/15, 09:20 PM

Ive got dads post maul. He used it to make stakes when he first started with electric fence, and used them on the water gates.

Old Vet · #15 02/08/15, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FarmboyBill

Cedars in Okla are now considered a pest tree. Once they get a start, there soon sprouting all over. When I came here I had one. Now I got a doz. In some Okla Counties they are doing a active eradication of them. They use a huge amount of water a day. They kill all the grass below them, and in some places were here talking acres where they've grown unmolested on large ranches. Ive started cutting a young one a year for a Christmas Tree just to get rid of them.

All of your cedar trees have to run through a bird to sprout. Where do birds gather on fences. That is why you have cedar trees on fences.

o&itw · #16 02/09/15, 11:24 AM

Red-cedar makes great fence posts. However, the sap (non red colored) wood does not last long. That is why if you want to make a good lasting fence, you need to use posts that are a minimum 5-6" at the top of the post. Corner posts should be more like 8-10". Like another poster stated above, they need to be dried about a year before you use them. Removing the bark is a good idea too, but is not so easy to do on most cedar posts.

Osage posts are great, but are not near as common in most places. I have never been a big fan of black locust posts, we always cut them and sold them to others. I good cedar post will last a lot longer.

As far as installing them, if our area it is mostly broken, gravel-like rock, I don't think one could reasonably drive them. A manual post hole digger isn't much help either, so everyone around here uses an auger post hole digger (tractor pto). Set your corner (and brace) posts first, then stretch a line between them to use as a guide to set your other holes. Tamp them in with a 2 x 4 when you are filling back around the posts.

Staple the fence to one corner post, past the next corner post and with a fence clamp ( you can make one out of a couple of 2x4s and a few bolts if you don't have access to one) and hook up a come-along or a block and tackle to a tree past the corner posts and pull the fence tight before you staple that side. If there is not a tree there you can use a tracter to tie too. If you have an older tractor, you can simply get the wire snug, then turn the tractor ignition switche off, and leaving the tractor in 1st gear you can tighten the fence with the starter switch. To do this it must be an older tractor with a separate "ignition on" and starter switches.