As to small farms and chickens

[FarmboyBill]

My old aunt an d uncle, Louise and Walt, had a 299 acre farm. On it they raised all their feed, had a 2 doz or more dairy herd, kept over a doz sows, and had over a thousand chickens. This was in the day where they had NO mechanization. She carried her feed around 200 or more ft from grain bin to chicken house. She carried her water from around 100ft to the chickenhouse. They retired in their early 70s.
My point being,
IF an old man and woman can keep up with 1000 chickens, why cant young men and women, especially with close hydrants for water, and newer ideas on hauling or delivering feed that they have nowadays.

As to feeding, I can be more mechanized than she, as I have a old lawnmower with the engine removed that I can put 3 sac ks of feed on and push it to the chicken house with less effort than lugging one on m y shoulder.

IF ALL small farms, and they wouldn't have to be any bigger than 5 acres housed 1000 chickens, then that would WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY outnumber the chickens being raised by the large egg farm.

The farm I bought my chickens from is large for this area, and the only on actually doing ANY LARGE scale farming. They have 2 feed stores on the farm, and around 30 to 50 thousand chickens.

Theres over 100 or more farms with 5 or more acres surrounding this farm within a 10 mile radius. There is NO reason I can see that SOME of these farms couldn't supply MORE eggs, with BETTER flavor than a egg farm can.

AND, the same idea goes with dairy, or pork supplies.

I think that, IF we had one farm raising a slug of chickens with maybe a few hogs and/or cows, and another farm raising a slug of milk cows, with maybe a few hogs and/or chickens, and another farm raising a slug of dairy cows, with a few hogs and/or chickens, we would bring farming back into the countryside again, Bring farmers back to the country again, have, in the case of hogs and chickens, IF not in cows a better product made for sale, It would cause more people to be in the country doing these things, less people being in town wishing they could do these things, and a regrowth of small towns.
AND, lest I forger
Having farmers who grew an acre of veggies for sale along with another for themselves and family, along with any variety above.

Whatcha stink??

[FarmboyBill]

opps, they had a 200 acre farm. Lest I FORGET lol

[wr]

It might be different in the US but in Canada, if you own more than a specified number of chickens or anything confined to a small area, you are subject to very rigid requirements, which makes startup costs quite expensive.

I'm guessing there may be similar in the US because there has been recent discussion about changes in cage size requirements for chickens.

[FarmboyBill]

Perhaps each state has different rules, but as far as I know, I could have a 1000 chickens here, OR a doz hogs, OR 2 doz milk cows with no problems IF the dairy op was up to standard, AND , IF, I wanted a milk Co to haul my milk, I might have to have a certain # of cows for them to stop. In the town next to me, 10 miles, there was a guy who, on 5 acres milked and sold off of a couple doz or slightly more cows. A milk Co hauled his milk, and he bought all his feed and hay.
You might ask, Well, if so, why don't/didn't you have some combination of those after 30yrs.?
Well I tried the dairy, and got divorced. Sold to Tulsa Farmers Mkt, but gave up after not finding water. Tried to get water here numerous times and never found it. Without water, nothing listed above is possible.
I think that most young people, would be interested in making a living off of a farm who enjoy life on a farm, than living in town, OR AT LEAST a partial living off of a farm.

[wr]

Originally Posted by FarmboyBill

Perhaps each state has different rules, but as far as I know, I could have a 1000 chickens here, OR a doz hogs, OR 2 doz milk cows with no problems IF the dairy op was up to standard, AND , IF, I wanted a milk Co to haul my milk, I might have to have a certain # of cows for them to stop. In the town next to me, 10 miles, there was a guy who, on 5 acres milked and sold off of a couple doz or slightly more cows. A milk Co hauled his milk, and he bought all his feed and hay.
You might ask, Well, if so, why don't/didn't you have some combination of those after 30yrs.?
Well I tried the dairy, and got divorced. Sold to Tulsa Farmers Mkt, but gave up after not finding water. Tried to get water here numerous times and never found it. Without water, nothing listed above is possible.
I think that most young people, would be interested in making a living off of a farm who enjoy life on a farm, than living in town, OR AT LEAST a partial living off of a farm.

I think you may have answered your own question.

[k9]

If food had the value that it should, people would be doing it, petro-chemical farming has produced a cheap food like substance that has made food of little value.

[farmerDale]

In Canada, eggs, poultry and milk are supply managed industries. Meaning that the existing dairy and feather farms own paper quota which gives them the right to produce X number of kg of milk, X dozen eggs, and X kg of chicken meat a year.

Because it is so regulated, the price of these items in Canada is very much higher than in the US, because the farmers limit production to maximize prices received.

VERY GOOD for the existing farms: TERRIBLE for consumers and farms wishing to enter the industry and compete.

Currently in our province, the limits per farm are:

Layers: 299 birds
Broilers: 999 birds
Turkeys: 99 birds

You may not go over this amount without having quota for what you produce.

Many up here want to get rid of this archaic, centrally planned system, to allow for new ideas and competition.

Point being, up here, we couldn't raise over those numbers legally, even if we wanted to, thanks to government and quota boards powerful lobby.

But I know what you are saying, Bill. The sky is the limit. We are hardly using our North American land to it's potential.

The difference between then and now?

IMO, it is simple laziness. We are a different people than they were. They had no materialistic expectations like we do today. To make a living they WORKED hard physically. Food came from your own hands. Today it comes on a shelf.

[FarmboyBill]

You right in all aspects Dale.
Your regulation sounds like what they used to have up home and I imagine all over the country for tobacco. They had what they called allotments, from a fraction of an acre on up.

[FarmboyBill]

I wouldn't mind IF nobody wanted to do those things, and live that kind of life, BUT what hacks me, is that people whine about the factory farms, and live on farms like mine, and don't try to do anything about it.

I DONT WHINE. I buy from the stores who gets theres from the factory farms, and live with it.

[Wanda]

Bill if you had a dozen people in the neighborhood with 1000 hens, where would they sell the eggs? That is to many for selling from the back porch and not enough for a buyer to pick up. It sounds good in theory but it does not pencil out.

[Wendy]

Mainly because in a lot of states you can't sell eggs off of your farm legally without permits. The eggs need to be candled, cleaned, graded, etc. Same with milk. Raw milk is illegal in most places & the hoops you have to jump through to be able to sell legally is crazy. I am allowed to sell eggs off the farm & I also have at the farmer's market. I can sell butchered chickens up to a certain amount without being inspected.

While you are allowed to butcher your own hogs, you are not supposed to let that meat leave the farm where it was butchered if it hasn't been inspected. As far as I know, you legally are not supposed to butcher your own beef. Everything is supposed to be inspected.

So while it might sound feasible, if you want to sell to the public then you have to jump through the hoops to do so. Most people do not want to do that. Also, would their be a market for that many eggs? Unless you are selling to a grocery chain, you just couldn't get rid of them for the most part. Once again, to sell to a grocer you would have to pass all of the inspections, etc.

When my dad was a boy, he raised rabbits & sold them to a local grocery store. He said it was neat to go into the store & see his rabbits in the meat case. Gone are those days!

[RichNC]

Originally Posted by Wanda

Bill if you had a dozen people in the neighborhood with 1000 hens, where would they sell the eggs? That is to many for selling from the back porch and not enough for a buyer to pick up. It sounds good in theory but it does not pencil out.

Correct and the part he is missing in his theory, here at least I can't just get 1000 hens, collect the eggs drive into town and sell them at the local grocery stores without being licensed and inspected. Granted they could be sold at a farmer's market, I think you still have to be licensed and inspected though, but for me the closest one is 40 miles one way!

[FarmboyBill]

I have read in farm magizines of small dairys in New England who are selling milk to milk companies who come around and pick it up.

I know of small farms who raise vegetables to sell to places in large cities back east. They also buy other farmers veggies to make up their quantity or to buy what they don't already grow

It would seem to me to not be a great stretch to find someone who could get contacts and contracts to buy pastured beef and pork and fowl by someone opening up a small commercial butchering plant which followed all state sanctions.

Bottom line

IF ENOUGH people wanted to be involved, it could be done. But, where no one is involved, nothing is done.

[Skandi]

Another system over here, I can have 30 chickens max, any more and I have to do a two year course on farm care/management, which of course costs money. (even though most education is free)

(I only want 5 so the limit is not an issue luckily)

[RichNC]

Originally Posted by FarmboyBill

I know of small farms who raise vegetables to sell to places in large cities back east. They also buy other farmers veggies to make up their quantity or to buy what they don't already grow

You know small farmers in OK selling veggies to cities all the way on the East Coast??

I think part of what you are not understanding here, is most of us are doing what you mention on our own scale for our own families, granted I am just one guy, no other mouths to feed so I have some chickens, grow a nice size garden, do a hog share with a neighbor who raises one or two a year and take care of myself.

Some are selling off the farm, like Wendy and her meat chickens, I could do that I have enough land, but I am just one person and for me to do the things you are talking about I would have to hire at least one full-time person to help me I don't really want to do that as I buy almost nothing from the grocery store, well coffee and sugar and such and since I don't support the current corporate egg industry why should I?

[FarmboyBill]

I should have said that, by reading Rural Heritage, and a few others, of gardeners back east who are raising, some up to several acres of vegetable products for sale. They have CSAs, and sell to Mkt Gardens, and some have contacts and contracts with various eateries back N East.

U say that MOST of US are doing what im talking bout. Well, around me, NOBODY has chickens, and I cant see a garden space from here to Tulsa. IF anybody has one, its so small that its just for seasonal eating in the summertime.

[RichNC]

When I say most of us are doing that, I mean here on this board, so other that regulations and I am completely sure you can NOT have 1000 chickens on your land and sell eggs without permits and licenses, you yourself said in a post about chickens that you have to have a permit to sell them at the sale place you go if you have over 100.

People here are either learning or taking care of their own, so you see wasted farm land, it isn't you land, worry about your own land and take care of yourself.

[wr]

I'm not sure how you know these things are not being done but I do know that you are poorly informed about certain things.

I sold beef to a high end restaurant for years and it's a tough business. You have to be able to satisfy their order weekly or they'll find someone else. If they miscalculate when they order, you have to have a ready supply of perfectly aged beef to cover that. You have to pay for inspections and certifications and you can't store it at home without having your home up to licences food safety standards.

If you're selling milk for public consumption, you need to meet rigid requirements and regular inspection.

Eggs for general sale is the same.

People do it and some do very well, others find the red tape too much to handle and in other cases, the regulation requirement make it cost prohibitive.

I do think it's highly presumptuous to call people lazy because they don't follow your business formula when you have no knowledge of what they are doing on their own land.

[FarmboyBill]

Rich ALL I SAID was that I would/should have a permit that inspectors have looked and OKed my chicken house for me to be able to sell eggs. At one time I had 200 chickens here with no problems.
wr, U mind showing me where I said that people were lazy? ALL I can remember is that I said how people deplore the ways and methods of egg and pork and other types of farms in there producing, yet choose to do nothing about it.

THE LEAST you people could do is to put the parts where I said what YOU think I said, in the rebuttal of your replys.

[fordy]

............I'm so thankful Cinnamon Rolls aren't regulated ! What happens if the politicans can't have a cinnamon roll and coffee with their favorite lobbyist , or DC bar girl ? Both houses of Congress will just not function . , lol , fordy