Cultivator Shovels or Points vs Sweeps

[k9]

I have a Dearborn 13-2 cultivator that i want to put to work this summer, trying to decide if i should put sweeps on it or shovels. My basic understanding is that sweeps conserve moisture, the shovels or points are better in harder gound is that the basics of it?

[FarmboyBill]

Theres ALOT of variables to the answer.

Whats the ground like?
how wide is the rows?
What are you planting?

If using narrow rows, you may want to consider chisel points, There the curbed 3in or less piece of metal with a point on each end.
You may want to consider using one wing schovels where the cultivatror shank is close to the row.
IF wide rows you may want to consider using what used to be called Texas sweeps
You may want to consider using a combination of these

You may want to start with schovels/sweeps, and go to chisel points after the crop is getting higher to avoid hitting the roots.

Just some thoughts.

[farmerDale]

Well, what is your objective? There are as many types of sweeps and spikes or chisels, as there are flavors of milkshakes.

There is no tillage that is going to conserve moisture much, except for a rod weeder or a noble type blade.

Back when tillage here was going on, most would use both for different reasons. Spikes would be used before freeze up to bury a bit of residue, and promote the old theory that exposed soil will warm up/dry out faster in spring.

Sweeps would be used when wanting to control weeds, as they disturb the whole profile of the soil. A regular sweep does not really leave residue on the surface in the way you may wish for. A few passes with a sweep cultivator, and the residue of even high yielding oats is going to be mostly gone.

Spikes leave more of the soil undisturbed, but then you aren't killing the weeds, so what is the point?

Either way, tillage is hell on soil. Soil was formed with no tillage. Intact root channels, earthworms and residue on the surface will build your soil organic matter, and in doing so, will fix a lot of the problems with tillage. Like erosion, earthworm disturbances, smearing shut the rotting roots channels and critter burrows.

But then for weed control, you are going to have to use a herbicide, which many are against, so you need to weigh the options.

Since no tilling here, our soil has become amazing again. And we are in one of the dampest, coldest places to try farming on this planet. It is not supposed to work here, but for the above reasons, it does, and does very well, thankfully!

Sorry for the aside there, but I love soil and seeing it getting better without tillage.

Anyways, those are the basic differences between sweeps and spikes or chisels...

[k9]

I hear you about the tillage, years ago used a rototiller a lot on my garden and i think it was one of the worst things you could do to that ground. I am not a fan of herbicides and have always tried to do minimum tillage in my plot, i have used a hand held stirip hoe to do most of my weeding, but i want to put out more and i am not getting any younger.

I plan on using 30" rows and it will be to sweetcorn, meal corn ( blue hoppi and bloody butcher ) and sunflowers. I have been building the soil up for years with compost and whatever organic matter i can get my hands on so it ranges from fair to poor, drainage is great, lot of rocks and runs from sand to clay typical Michigan ground.

[jwal10]

Field cultivators, I like points or small shovels to dig, sweeps with wings to run shallow, cut weed roots and leave them on top to wither and die, works well for summer fallow. Row cultivators, you want to cut the roots and leave on top to die, also lets oxygen in if crusted over. You can dig down to bring moisture up to seeding level with a field cultivator and pack and seal for seedbeds, this takes points or small shovels to dig down. Points or shovels of all sizes will also leave ridges to catch runoff water or light snow that would blow....James

[DaleK]

It'll depend what you're pulling it with as well. When we were cultivating a lot I could fly with 85hp and an 18' cultivator with points, put 5" sweeps on and I had to drop 3 gears.

[k9]

It will be motivated mostly by the dreaded 8n Ford, it is a two row cultivator, my back just isn't up doing it all by hand anymore.

[FarmboyBill]

That's one thing the Ford should be good at.

[jwal10]

Nothing wrong with an 8n Ford. Just use it as intended. That cultivator is a light use cultivator. Made to run shallower and at speed. The vibration of the spring shanks will leave the weeds on top to die. With shields you can get near every weed. Here is a manual....James

http://www.ntractorclub.com/manuals/...structions.pdf

[k9]

James, I agree with you about the 8n, but mention one on here and it brings out the haters, 70yrs old and still going and as you say use as intended. Thanks for the link.

The shields are still on it and work fine, they built that stuff to last, and made in America.

[FarmboyBill]

I never see shields on cultivators at the sales. I bought a cultivator in Nebr and it didn't have shields. Id like to find them tho. Dad used them religiously. I have them on my 2 row IHC horse cultivator.

[FarmboyBill]

I see that the Dearborn Cultivator is using chisel points.

[k9]

My understanding is the 13-2 came with shovels and the 13-2A came with sweeps but they are the same implement otherwise. Attaching a pick, the paint is gone but it is solid otherwise.

[FarmboyBill]

I have a small cultivator with shanks like that. Its around 4 or more ft wide. It has I think a doz shanks. I can pull 2 pins on each shank and move it from side to side. I put a weight on it and mounted it on the Cub. Worked great. Gonna try it on the Panzer some day.

[rambler]

K9, where I am a shovel and a sweep are the same thing, as far as I know. They would work better for cultivating weeds out of corn rows. The shovel has wings, and only goes a couple inches deep. The wings are parallel to the ground, and cut off weed roots. There are many different sizes of shovels.

You are set up with a lot of shanks between rows, 5 it looks like, so a small shovel would do. We ran with 4 shovels between 38 inch rows, and used 7 inch wide shovels. Want to cover everything so all weed roots get cut. You might only need 3 or 4 inch shovels, donno. The shovels closest to the row were clipped, only had a wing on one side, away from the row, so you are less likely to hurt the crop, you can more easily run the shank up to the row.

The spikes are better for working up the ground in spring, little deeper 4-5 inches. Help break up wheel ruts, loosen deeper than the seed placement, level out ground.

Shields are nice, the modern version rolls, rolling shields. Any more here in farm country they sell for a buck or two a piece when you see them on a sale, scrap iron. The sliding ones have been shipped to China and melted down long long ago around here....

Tebben actually still sells the shields, even the sliding style, for an idea of the types:

http://www.tebben.us/shield.html

Paul

[geo in mi]

This may be pointing out the obvious, but setup and adjustment will be your biggest job. In Michigan sand, the points already there(if sharp and not rounded off)will probably work okay, upsetting the weeds and roots so they will die. In clay or cloddy soil, they may not stir enough to cause the crumbling you want--that is, the weeds will be left intact in the clods and reroot themselves. If your planter press wheel is heavy enough to cause a good depression in the row, you can then adjust the fenders so that the soil can be thrown under them to fill the row and bury the weeds on the first pass, without burying the taller corn seedlings. In my day, with corn, a rotary hoe was used just as the root hairs (of the weeds) had formed, the teeth of the rotary hoe pulling them out and burying the row. The fenders were only used with beans.... Even though the 8N has no downward hydraulics, the weight of the planter may make enough of a hollow. With the cultivator, you will have to really watch the depth control and the top link angle, as the cultivator will want to pull downward and deeper in the loose sand, but ride up on dry, hard clay.

As the corn grows, you can increase the speed and raise the depth(and raise the fenders), so as to throw more soil around the corn stalk, but avoid the shallow roots. The roots grow and spread really fast as the stalk moves upward, so you might want to raise the shanks closest to the rows. I think three passes, barring rain delays, would be just about right until it is too tall for the Ford front axles and cultivator frame. By then you should have enough canopy to shade out the weeds.

And of course, as the manual shows, you may have to reverse the Ford wheels to get the row width you want--I would want to do the math beforehand....Also, your spring shanks have fixed hole settings, so if you want to switch to sweeps and/or shovels, you will need to measure first before ordering--both hole separation and bolt size.

Hopefully I haven't insulted your intelligence, but to belabor the obvious some more, hopefully you will have some way to avoid the racoons--you wouldn't want all your work to be in vain.....

geo

[k9]

Thanks for the input geo, electric fence has been a great help at keeping out the racoons and deer. I have raised sweetcorn for years, but last year was the first time I have had deer eat the top of the ear with silk off. After they started doing that i put up the fence and that kept them out, and i did not have any racoon damage either.

I am thinking about 6" between the sheids for the row of corn, does that sound about right?

[FarmboyBill]

Yes that's about right.

Ill check out what they want for their shields. I was always going to make some. Wouldn't be too hard, but was working and didn't have the time. Got the time now.

[jwal10]

Shovels dig, just cover a wider area than a point. Sweeps lift the dirt and weeds.

Good example of shovels to sweeps in this picture. The 2 bigger ones are small sweeps, the rest are shovels....James


http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-IH-Farmall...-/321593214760

[k9]

I am thinking 8in. sweeps, our local TSC has them and the bolt pattern fits, just not sure if 3 in the middle is enough. Running a 30" row with 6" subtracted for the crop row that leaves 24" and running three 8in. sweeps would leave no overlap, little bit of wear and there would be gaps if I am thinking correctly.