Tractor questions??

majiksummer · #1 11/24/14, 02:00 PM

What size of tractor is needed to put up hay? Planning on using round baler and a pull behind swather. Putting up 20-30 acres, It also needs to be strong enough to put round bales on the trailer and use to feed with. May be moving some snow too. Thanks!

farmerDale · #2 11/24/14, 02:18 PM

What is your budget? Some will say 40 hp, some will say 100 hp. New, or well used? Lots of potential answers!

majiksummer · #3 11/24/14, 02:27 PM

Definitely used, I'd like to stay as inexpensive as possible, but for sure no more than 10k preferably around 7ish? I'm just not sure what is reasonable for a price range? I have a while to look for a deal as I don't have to have it till April or June.

farmerDale · #4 11/24/14, 02:47 PM

I would not be scared of a 3020 or 4020 John deere. The 3020 is around 65 hp and the 4020 is almost 100. Both are well built for their day, (late 60's early 70's). If you can find a good, solid diesel, with fel and reasonable hours, they would be a good unit. LOTS out there. Parts availability is as good as can be for that era.

Check places like tractorhouse.com.

I am not really even a JD guy, but for the money, and for that era, it will be tough to come close IMO. Should be right in your price range.

Just a suggestion! Lots of options out there, you'll have to get looking and see what you think of them...

DLMKA · #5 11/24/14, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmerDale

I would not be scared of a 3020 or 4020 John deere. The 3020 is around 65 hp and the 4020 is almost 100. Both are well built for their day, (late 60's early 70's). If you can find a good, solid diesel, with fel and reasonable hours, they would be a good unit. LOTS out there. Parts availability is as good as can be for that era.

Check places like tractorhouse.com.

I am not really even a JD guy, but for the money, and for that era, it will be tough to come close IMO. Should be right in your price range.

Just a suggestion! Lots of options out there, you'll have to get looking and see what you think of them...

An Oliver 1650, 1750, or 1850 will also fit the bill, green and white tractors are usually cheaper than green and yellow and parts are more reasonable too. Oliver 1650 is pretty much the same power/weight class as a 3020 and the 1850 is about like a 4020. Deere 3020 wide front are a little light for lifting round bales with a loader, front axle not quite up to the task but for 20-30 acres and occasional use may be just fine. Stay away from aftermarket wide front end conversions on a 3020.

farmerDale · #6 11/24/14, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLMKA

An Oliver 1650, 1750, or 1850 will also fit the bill, green and white tractors are usually cheaper than green and yellow and parts are more reasonable too. Oliver 1650 is pretty much the same power/weight class as a 3020 and the 1850 is about like a 4020. Deere 3020 wide front are a little light for lifting round bales with a loader, front axle not quite up to the task but for 20-30 acres and occasional use may be just fine. Stay away from aftermarket wide front end conversions on a 3020.

Where do you get oliver parts from? I have perused for Allis Chalmers parts online, and dang it if you folks below the 49th don't have WAY more options for the more obsolete machinery!

Oliver never crossed my mind because of that. There are oodles of old parts places down there for sure.

jwal10 · #7 11/24/14, 03:06 PM

Others. IH 706/806/756/856 are heavy tractors for the horse power range, heavier than the 3020/4020. If buying used make sure a dealer is close, if you have 1 tractor you need parts quick. Check dealer for parts availability for what you are looking at. The smaller Massey tractors with 6 cylinders are good economical to run tractors. 1100/1130/1105/1135 models. Ford 6000/7000/8000 and newer....James

jwal10 · #8 11/24/14, 03:11 PM

Make sure and keep in mind PTO size and speed. Baler may be one and cutter the other. These bigger tractors have both in most. IH could have both readily available others may need changed as needed, not a big deal to change but at least both are there. Some "big" tractors only have 1 and it can be the big 1000 only not used on mid sized equipment....James

Seth · #9 11/24/14, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmerDale

Where do you get oliver parts from? I have perused for Allis Chalmers parts online, and dang it if you folks below the 49th don't have WAY more options for the more obsolete machinery!

Oliver never crossed my mind because of that. There are oodles of old parts places down there for sure.

Www.KorvesOliver.com

Mark Korves is a true gentleman and can get anything your Ollie needs.

FarmboyBill · #10 11/24/14, 03:35 PM

Go 50hp or above for 4X5 bales. Don't ask me how I know.

Muleman · #11 11/24/14, 03:40 PM

I would buy what you can get parts for locally. Get hay on the ground and have a breakdown, thenhave to wait a week to order a weird part from somewhere while your hay getss rained on and ruins and a cheap odd ball tractor starts to get expensive. I am not saying buy new, just look around and see what is available to service. For instance I have a New Holland, not because I think it is the best, but we have a dealer in town. The nearest J.D. dealer is an hour away, A/C a little farther and Massey or IH and you go farther yet. if I break down I can go to town and get a part, if he does not have the part and really need to finish he will loan me a tractor. Good to buy local if you can and get a good relationship with the local dealer if you can.

For a round baler I would not consider under 75hp. yes you can make one go round and round with a 50hp, but you will not get a good tight bale and run the risk of blowing out the clutch on the tractor. A round baler is quite a load on a tractor. You get in the 100hp range and while it is not absolutely necessary, you can ease along with plenty of HP and put up nice tight bales.

As far as loading you can go pretty small and still handle most round bales pretty well. any of the little Boomer line of N.H. tractor with a loader will handle the bales fine, if it is a 4x4. I would not think of getting a everyday use tractor with a front end loader that was not 4x4 myself. A strictly field tractor to run the baler and mow a 2 wd is just fine.

if it were me I would look at these options, just some ideas here of different ways to go about it. N.H. made a 4' round baler for a while that would work with a smaller tractor, for a small field like you are talking you might get away with a smaller tractor just fine if you find one of these used for sale. Good little balers, the size just never really caught on, so you do not see too many of them, but they are some out there.

Another thing many people do is cut and rake their own hay then pay someone with a bigger tractor and baler to come in and just bale it. You could cut and rake with a smaller tractor just fine, and then you could load the bales with your smaller tractor fine to.

One more option and if it were me this is the route I would go, If I was determined to do it all myself. Buy a nice little 40hp tractor or so that you can use everyday worth a loader, as I said I prefer a 4x4 with a loader. Then buy some older 2 wd big HP tractor to pull the baler if I wanted a big baler. Otherwise look for a 4' baler and do it all with your smaller tractor.

Do not forget hydraulic hookups. Most balers will require at least 2 separately controlled hydraulics, make sure what the baler you have in mind requires and then make sure the tractors you are looking at can handle it or has the connections.

I have a 45hp N.H. Boomer. This tractor does all I want to do. Uses very little diesel and with it being 4x4 and having a loader I can use it for many different things. the compact size allows me to get into places and work that a bigger tractor simply can not. I actually brought a bigger tractor home a few years back thinking I was going to get a second tractor. I do not remember the model number but it was a 85hp NH 4x4 with cab and loader. This thing was real nice and had a decent price as it was a used tractor. what I found is it was almost useless at home, too many places I simply could not go that my little tractor would go, so I took it back to the dealer. There again a good relationship with a dealer allows you to do things like this and test something on your farm, before you have to commit to a purchase.

Buying from an individual or at a farm sale will certainly get you the best price. I have always wanted a 4020, not sure why? They are real good tractors, cheap HP as the saying goes. Where I live a good 4020 with a loader will run you somewhere around $8,000.00 to $10,000.00 depending on condition, power shift etc. A good used N.H. Boomer in the 40hp range 4x4 with loader will run you in the mid teens probably. Lots of older, good tractors out there in the lower price ranges and if you know what you are looking for you can make a good deal. However, if you are not all that familiar with tractors you can also get stuck with a piece of junk.

Another route that has not been mentioned is financing. I am not one to tell people to go in debt, but!! I know most of the tractor brands have 0% deals from time to time, even on some used stuff they have some good in house financing deals. just something to look into and maybe consider. I am only thinking this route since it looks like you are buying everything I assume??? Even a cheap tractor, haybine, rake, tedder and baler is going to set you back a decent amount. No body is thinking hay right now and it is the end of the year for most dealers, might be able to make a good package deal and get into some good financing rates as well this time of year.

Muleman · #12 11/24/14, 03:47 PM

BTW, if you fill in your location in the upper right hand corner it will help folks give you information more specific to where you live, which might help you.

majiksummer · #13 11/24/14, 07:06 PM

Thank you!! This has been wonderfully helpful information! I have a place to start looking now and an idea of what will work and what won't. I also updated my location too

Awnry Abe · #14 11/24/14, 09:29 PM

It isn't so much the HP at the lower end of the "able to put up hay", it is the weight of the tractor that makes me pucker. I don't think I'd worry as much with a swather as I would a disc mower, though. I can lift a 5x6 with the FEL of my 50hp tractor, but I don't let anyone else do it. It will lift them all day long, but in bad footing or slight grade you've gotta be perfect in your tact.

rambler · #15 11/25/14, 09:55 AM

I typed out several paragraphs last night, and then the web site went down as I tried to post it... Ah well.

50 hp but that is light, 60-120 would be a nice range, lot of good USA made tractors around 80hp from 1970 to 1990 in the $5000 to $15,000 range. Don't go too cheap, 20 acres of hay is actual work and sizable investment, you need dependable.

Paul

Rectifier · #16 11/25/14, 09:28 PM

Go over 100HP just to get the mass so the tractor is the one in charge, not the baler.

If you want to load a hay wagon you will want a loader tractor and again, you will want that mass. If you have any sort of hills you will want a nice long and heavy machine with a wide wheelbase or you will be terrified or worse. I run a Deutz DX160 for hay, they have a very wide stance and good bearings for sidehill loading.

I have a little chore tractor, IH B-275 35HP with 3pt bale spear, that moves my round bales just fine - one at a time for feeding.

But it cannot lift them up onto a wagon. And a light loader tractor will not feel safe lifting the second layer onto the bale wagon - heck, it might not even lift high enough or you may wreck the front axle or pop tires. With my old wagon (ex-3 ton truck) my loader on my 150HP barely gets high enough to put the top bales on.

It is always a trade off with fuel vs. weight. That's why it's nice to have a big tractor and a chore tractor for feeding.

The 150HP is a great machine but a fuel hog for light tasks, and is hard to start and will never come up to temperature in the winter. I haul my bales into the yard and then park the 150HP for the winter.

The 35HP set up with block heater and glow plugs is great to start up, jump on, and feed a couple bales and plow some snow. Easy to manoever, warms up very fast and sips fuel.

By a pull behind swather do you mean a haybine? Or just a swather? You will need a rake if it's not a haybine unless you get great hay weather. Big tractors tend to be horribly inefficient at light loads like cutting and raking, a small machine will shine for the cutting and raking, leaving the big boy to just do the baling and hauling. And the small machine can pull the wagon while you load with the big one.

Can you tell I'm biased towards a pair of tractors? I did small chores with my 150HP long enough to see the value in a second small tractor.

Muleman · #17 11/26/14, 06:46 PM

Rectifier, I like your way of thinking and also agree. When you try to get one piece of equipment to do two very different jobs, you usually wind up with one that while it may do them both, will not be very good at either!!

CIW · #18 11/28/14, 11:18 AM

There's a 1969, 4020 diesel that will go up for auction on 8 December. It has a loader with a grapple hook on it and a syncro-drive transmission. It has dual hydraulic remotes and those tractors came standard with a dual range PTO.
This tractor will do everything that you are wanting.
It didn't say that it was turboed, but when I looked at the photo I thought I could see a turbocharger. That would mean that it is around 95 hp. It also looked like the tires were in good shape. (Just based on the photos that I saw.)
Go to Wolfe Real Estate & Auction, in Ord Nebraska. Its the Bill Sitz estate auction. You would have to ship it but it would still be in your budget.
Call a mechanic to go do an acessment of it, and go from there. There's a John Deere dealer in O'neill.