NAt Geographic article on greying farmers

Mike in Ohio · #1 09/19/14, 09:02 AM

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ors_picks=true.

I think there are a lot of interesting points in this article. High cost of land keeping out potential younger farmers. Growth of corporate farms.

Mike

farminghandyman · #2 09/19/14, 11:16 AM

currently I do not see how any farmers are making it,

check out the attached price sheet, the second page is what the average farer cost are per acre, and what "profit" one may realize with average costs and production,

east side of Colorado, the irrigated corn farmer is losing $400 an acre, the dry land corn farmer is loosing an average of $100, and the wheat farmer is $20 an acre

how does one (with not nitch farming) do it,
was looking at the John Deere dealers add paper, the lowest price combine in there two pages of adds (used) was $265,000, not counting the headers.

tractors two pages, (used) was $165,000

that is not the machinery, the trucks the buildings, etc,

my guess is most if given the land could not buy the tools to farm with and make a living, and the land is crazy,

about the only way to buy land is to have 4 to 5 times that much to buy it with, it will take the profits of 5 units to pay for one unit, and then you need another 5 units to pay for the equipment, and then you need help, so the hired man is possibly making as much as your living on,

convental farming is a hard life to get into and keep in to,

arabian knight · #3 09/19/14, 11:26 AM

Right now yes the corn prices are way down. 3.56 a bushel is what I heard yesterday. But last year it was close to double that.
We have plenty of farms large and small putting in irrigation systems.
I talked to a guy that works on the electrical part and he said most famers can recoup the cost of the irrigation setup in 3 to 4 years. Corn prices won't remain this low forever.
hay is still selling high, yesterday I saw a sign on a 1,000 LB round bail the price was 50 bucks. Square prices are all over the place, from 3.00 to 4.50 a bale for small 'kicker' type bails which go from 35 to at most 50 pounds a piece in this area at least.

But what I want to know is how in the world can ANY farmer PAY for equipment?
Some of these 4 X 4 TRACK types tractors Caterpillar type rubber tracks are just over 3/4 of a million dollars~! ONE Track and there are 4 of them, One Costs $25,000 to replace!
And this is just one small implement dealing in this part of WI.
I am sure there are even more expensive ones for those large areas in the bread basket of the US.

Trainwrek · #4 09/19/14, 11:28 AM

Thats funny I just read an article about the growing trend of young people getting into farming. So much contradictory information out there.

idigbeets · #5 09/19/14, 11:45 AM

Yes but they are getting into leased land (dicey) and small acreage for market gardens, CSA etc. Very few row crop and hay farmers under 45....

Trainwrek · #6 09/19/14, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idigbeets

Yes but they are getting into leased land (dicey) and small acreage for market gardens, CSA etc. Very few row crop and hay farmers under 45....

What do you consider 'small acreage'? Just trying to gauge where I fit in. We have about 100 acres of pasture which we graze sheep and cut hay. Also do some produce for local markets. Am I a 'small niche farmer' ?

Trainwrek · #7 09/19/14, 11:55 AM

I'll say one thing, in the past year I have noticed that we are able to produce and sell alot of stuff cheaper than what people are paying in the supermarkets. That was never the case before. It sort of feels like the tide is turning in favor of smaller operations with less over head and less exposure to inflating costs.

PrincessFerf · #8 09/19/14, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trainwrek

I'll say one thing, in the past year I have noticed that we are able to produce and sell alot of stuff cheaper than what people are paying in the supermarkets. That was never the case before. It sort of feels like the tide is turning in favor of smaller operations with less over head and less exposure to inflating costs.

And people are realizing that the food bought at farmer's markets/CSA tastes better and a higher quality.

Sawmill Jim · #9 09/19/14, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trainwrek

What do you consider 'small acreage'? Just trying to gauge where I fit in. We have about 100 acres of pasture which we graze sheep and cut hay. Also do some produce for local markets. Am I a 'small niche farmer' ?

This area my neighbor has more acres in his fence rows than you farm .

Here that one family has over 15,000 acres part owned and rest leased . Then they have another operation a few states over with more than 10,000 acres . They have their own fuel tanker

farmerDale · #10 09/19/14, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabian knight

But what I want to know is how in the world can ANY farmer PAY for equipment?
Some of these 4 X 4 TRACK types tractors Caterpillar type rubber tracks are just over 3/4 of a million dollars~! ONE Track and there are 4 of them, One Costs $25,000 to replace!
And this is just one small implement dealing in this part of WI.
I am sure there are even more expensive ones for those large areas in the bread basket of the US.

If one chooses to farm with flash and new iron, it takes good bankers and a lot of acres to make it even hopeful. I don't understand it either, and I farm alongside these guys. I just use 15 and 20 year old machinery that is fixable, and well depreciated, and worth 10% of what they think they HAVE TO HAVE for machinery.

Works for me. It is not like someone s holding a gun to the heads of farmers.

Trainwrek · #11 09/19/14, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawmill Jim

This area my neighbor has more acres in his fence rows than you farm .

Here that one family has over 15,000 acres part owned and rest leased . Then they have another operation a few states over with more than 10,000 acres . They have their own fuel tanker

Oh I know some operations are massive. My acreage seems like a lot to me but of course we are very small potatoes compared to many.

FarmboyBill · #12 09/19/14, 03:50 PM

AK. I know of 3 who have bought 4X5 rounds for $20. Well, there charging over that to mow, rake and bale it. So the owner has to pay the bailer man $23 to mow rake and bale it, Hes got his money. The farmer/rancher, now has to worry about the going cost of hay into the winter months. He has to advertise, and likely haul bales to auctions. he has to pay commission at those auctions to sell those bales, AND, because of quality or whatever, others hay may bring more than his,
I got mine bailed for $10. But I had to mow and rake it, and haul it off the field. Ive got some pararie that was fantastic hay as I mowed and raked it the same day and hoped to get it bailed then . His bailer broke down. Says hes getting the part today, Fri, and will have it on and be bailing here tomorrow. It has got rained on twice, and were supposed to get rain again tomorrow.
So I pay him $10 a bale. He breaks down. My hay gets wet. I then have hay of lesser quality to sell. He gets his $10 regardless of when he finally gets round to bale it. Im left holding hay that might have brought $20/30, but now may only bring $10/20

FarmerDavid · #13 09/19/14, 11:46 PM

Do you really feel like he doesn't care when he gets it baled? If you do you shouldn't be using him in the first place. Breakdowns happen, my beef is with the dealers that won't stock parts anymore, but can have everything tomorrow. Dealers don't seem to care that the difference between beating the rain today or not can easily equal thousands of $.

I normally do like you and mow and rake my own and have someone else bale it. Got 5x6 baled for $10 weighing 1800. I was running behind and had another guy mow, rake and bale it, $15 for all. Thought that sounded like a great deal till I realized they were 4x4.5 and weighed 650-700. Even worse by the time he got it baled I could have done it myself faster. Then I had three times as many bales to move. I'd have been better off buying hay off someone else. Guess you live and learn but I'm not happy about it.

idigbeets · #14 09/20/14, 05:06 AM

Market gardens to me are under 5 acres... PASA, CASA, and other groups in my area promote the heck out of these types of setups. While they are profitable, I wouldn't call 1 acre a farm...

Tricky Grama · #15 09/20/14, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trainwrek

I'll say one thing, in the past year I have noticed that we are able to produce and sell alot of stuff cheaper than what people are paying in the supermarkets. That was never the case before. It sort of feels like the tide is turning in favor of smaller operations with less over head and less exposure to inflating costs.

I hope this is true. We haven't been home since 8/1 so haven't been to our little farmers mkt but last yr it was pretty expensive, compared to grocery store. I know it's better but most suburbians don't realize that.
There are quite a few mkts here in small towns of ME.

ognend · #16 09/20/14, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idigbeets

Market gardens to me are under 5 acres... PASA, CASA, and other groups in my area promote the heck out of these types of setups. While they are profitable, I wouldn't call 1 acre a farm...

That's because Americans are megalomaniacs and are programmed to think that bigger is always better

"Back East" 5 acres properly farmed with organic inputs can feed quite a few families year round. "Out West" it would be enough for a few families. When we lived in South FLorida we lived in an unincorporated area where the average property was 2 acres. Guess what? It was all lawns and nobody even had a backyard garden. Everyone b*ched about the price of food, the illegal immigrants "taking all the jobs" (what jobs? the ones on the farms that these folks in my neighborhood wouldn't work on anyways?) but nobody wanted to move their behind and plant anything on their own acre or two which would have been perfectly suitable to feed the whole family for free AND organically!

Anyways, the whole mentality of the necessity for huge farms of thousands of acres comes as a counter balance for many, many thousands of acres wasted being lawns by their lazy owners...

sammyd · #17 09/20/14, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trainwrek

What do you consider 'small acreage'? Just trying to gauge where I fit in. We have about 100 acres of pasture which we graze sheep and cut hay. Also do some produce for local markets. Am I a 'small niche farmer' ?

yes you are

idigbeets · #18 09/20/14, 12:13 PM

Feeding a few families vs being a real income farm are two different things. Even a 5 acre CSA isn't going to pull in enough after expenses to pay 2 full time staff a living wage... I think the point is that as farmers are aging their land is being sold off as retirement or the kids sell it off after dad dies and buy a new house somewhere. The land is developed and lost forever.

Those of us (like me) under 40 and wanting 500 acres to row crop, hay, diversify livestock etc... are having a hard time coming up with 1M to do it.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by ognend

That's because Americans are megalomaniacs and are programmed to think that bigger is always better

"Back East" 5 acres properly farmed with organic inputs can feed quite a few families year round. "Out West" it would be enough for a few families. When we lived in South FLorida we lived in an unincorporated area where the average property was 2 acres. Guess what? It was all lawns and nobody even had a backyard garden. Everyone b*ched about the price of food, the illegal immigrants "taking all the jobs" (what jobs? the ones on the farms that these folks in my neighborhood wouldn't work on anyways?) but nobody wanted to move their behind and plant anything on their own acre or two which would have been perfectly suitable to feed the whole family for free AND organically!

Anyways, the whole mentality of the necessity for huge farms of thousands of acres comes as a counter balance for many, many thousands of acres wasted being lawns by their lazy owners...

Miss Kay · #19 09/20/14, 12:57 PM

As always, we are talking apples and oranges here. This article is talking about "row" crops that feed the world. Niche small acre farms may produce some for the local community but you are never going to put out the pounds of food and bring in the dollars that corporate farmers do. I am surrounded by real farmers and no I do not count my 18 acres of pasture, orchard, gardens as anything comparable to them. The farmers here have irrigation and two growing seasons. I can sit in my kitchen and watch the parade of huge new combines and equipment pass by the house (and often take down my mail box) on the way to the next section of ground. Unless we have a hurricane that blows everything on the ground, they have nothing to fear and they rake it in each harvest. I have no desire to do what they do but if I did, I'd have to be a millionaire or better to get into it. If you look at what the average American eats, it is very little produce (not saying it is right, just the way it is). They eat processed food which is mostly some derivative of wheat, corn, sugar and soy beans along with meat (which eats the corn and soy). If you can't produce that in large quantities, you are not feeding the world. Which brings us back to the article, once all these old men are gone, who will grow the thousands of acres of wheat, corn, and soy needed?

FarmboyBill · #20 09/20/14, 02:54 PM

David, on my first cutting, I think he didn't want to bale it after my tractor went bad, knowing I had an outfit. Now, Its near 3 00 Sat, and he said hed be here Sat. Theres still time today, and the weather looks good for the next several days.

What I see, is that the big stretches of land are owned by guys in there 50s/60s. Theres is also the generation, when they were in their 20s, 1/2 of all of them that were on farms said the heck with it and left. I see the same for their kids, which would, by now, have already happened. The ones who take over, that are left to staying on the farms, after the above generation is gone, will see their kids leave by 1/2 thereabouts also.