Car repair question

Nimrod · #1 08/28/14, 10:14 AM

I put this here so more people will see it because I need a quick answer.

I took the Bronco into the shop because it needed a new slave cylinder for the clutch. It has a hydraulically operated clutch. To get the slave cylinder out you have to remove the drive shaft, transmission, transfer case, and bell housing. This is a major operation that I don't have the equipment or physical ability to do anymore.

When I dropped it off I told them I wanted the slave cylinder, pressure plate, and clutch disc replaced and was quoted a price of about $600.

I called today and it's done so I'm going to pick it up this afternoon. The mechanic mentioned that the first thing he did was to replace the master clutch cylinder to be sure that the problem wasn't caused by that. Then he went ahead and did the work requested. He determined that the universal joints for the front drive shaft were bad so he replaced them too. He did not call for authorization to do the extra work and I was stretching the budget to spend the $600 initially agreed on.

What are my options? I could pay the whole bill by putting it on my charge card but the extra work are things I could have done myself. I was 99% sure that the master cylinder was OK when I brought it in and told them that. I don't think it's even fair if I pay for the parts and they eat the labor.

If we can not reach an agreement then can I take them to court? Can I get my truck back without paying the entire bill or will they keep it until the issue is resolved?

arabian knight · #2 08/28/14, 10:23 AM

The master cylinder for the clutch does not run off the brake master cylinder but is its own master cylinder, and yes if the slave one at the clutch is bad there is a very good chance the master one is also bad. I would have replaced them both also as a mechanic because they work in unison. As far as the joints are concerned he should have called before doing that, but as long as it was off, it shouldn't have added THAT much more to the bill.

Darren · #3 08/28/14, 10:29 AM

You got bit in the butt by one of Ford's better ideas. I LMAO at those ads. They didn't play hide the slave cylinder for your benefit. I agree with Arabian Knight, I'd like to buy an older Ford pickup. I need to figure out when Ford moved the slave cylinder.

arabian knight · #4 08/28/14, 10:41 AM

A slave cylinder and separate master cylinder has been around a long time, even my 61 dodge PU had them both.

Nimrod · #5 08/28/14, 10:52 AM

I know that this is one of Ford's better ideas. This makes 4 times I have had the slave cylinder replaced since I bought the truck new. The slave cylinder doesn't like it when you depress the clutch to start the truck when it's -20 or less. That's when all 4 have broken.

I am a reasonably competent shade tree mechanic. I have replaced the clutch in a 2 wheel drive car when I was younger. I have rebuilt the engine on another car, valve job on another, ball joints on one, and so on. When I took it in it was leaking fluid from the hydraulic clutch system. The only place it was coming out was from the bell housing. I did not authorize replacing the master cylinder when I dropped it off and made a point of telling the mechanic that the master cylinder was good.

The question remains, do I have any recourse?

mmoetc · #6 08/28/14, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimrod

I know that this is one of Ford's better ideas. This makes 4 times I have had the slave cylinder replaced since I bought the truck new. The slave cylinder doesn't like it when you depress the clutch to start the truck when it's -20 or less. That's when all 4 have broken.

I am a reasonably competent shade tree mechanic. I have replaced the clutch in a 2 wheel drive car when I was younger. I have rebuilt the engine on another car, valve job on another, ball joints on one, and so on. When I took it in it was leaking fluid from the hydraulic clutch system. The only place it was coming out was from the bell housing. I did not authorize replacing the master cylinder when I dropped it off and made a point of telling the mechanic that the master cylinder was good.

The question remains, do I have any recourse?

Depends on the consumer laws in your stàte. Here a repair of that magnitude would require a written estimate which the consumer signs off on with a dollar limit expressly written out. Any repair above that limit requires further authorization. So, what exactly did you authorize?

Darren · #7 08/28/14, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabian knight

A slave cylinder and separate master cylinder has been around a long time, even my 61 dodge PU had them both.

I don't have a problem with the setup. I don't think Ford always put the slave INSIDE the clutch housing. I have an 87 Chevy with the slave OUTSIDE the housing. Replacing it is no big deal. Bleeding the air out is a PITA. But it is outside where you can see and remove it without having to remove major components.

Some accountant figured that installing the slave inside the housing saved money possibly during the assembly process. Automakers constantly look for ways to build vehicles cheaper. Bean counters play a major role in accomplishing that goal.

If that makes the vehicle easier to repair, that's a lucky out come. the automakers don't GAS if one of their changes makes life miserable for mechanics and owners down the road.

Whatever the piece is called that goes backwards from the axle on a Ford van to a bracket on the frame is an example. I had to work on that. The easiest way was \ to unbolt the bracket from the frame to avoid removing the exhaust manifold on a 6.9L. The factory installed the bolts so that the nut was on the outside of the frame on the bracket. There wasn't enough clearance to remove the bolts.

When I finished the nuts were on the inside of the frame and the bolts could be removed from the outside.

Ford!

robsdak · #8 08/28/14, 11:13 AM

for me, i would be a little peeved. you took the truck in to have xxx replaced/fixed. as for fixing things 'he thought' needed too be done? i would tell him thank you, pay the original bill and be on my merry way. bottom line - if i didn't authorize it, i am not paying for it. too many people in this world trying too get over on someone.

fordy · #9 08/28/14, 11:25 AM

...........From my POV , I'd evaluate it this way....Is the mechanic honest , did he\does he charge you for the actual work completed , has he always been forthright in your discussions with him before and after the job is finished ? Do , you trust him and the quality of his work ? If , most of the answers are yes , then I'd put the Unplanned repairs on your CC and be happy you have found an honest mechanic ! There are a million ways he can screw you over that won't show up until later on......in the middle of the winter at -40 below zero . , fordy

MO_cows · #10 08/28/14, 11:46 AM

Was there a signed work order or estimate before they tore into the truck?

If this is a good mechanic and you might need them again in the future, don't burn any bridges. Do let them know you are not happy with them for doing work that wasn't authorized. If the master cylinder was so likely to be bad, they should have told you up front, when you asked them to replace the slave cylinder. See if you can pay the $600 agreed upon and take the truck home, pay the rest next pay period. They also should discount some for not following directions.

Bellyman · #11 08/28/14, 01:10 PM

I wouldn't be too hard on the guy if it's someone you like and trust to do decent work. I don't think I'd want to judge the guy too harshly for putting in a new clutch master cylinder, honestly, I think it was a good idea. As for the u-joints, I can't think they cost THAT much, and if they needed replaced, they needed replaced.

Yes, you can voice your feelings about wishing they would have told you about the extras. They should have been in touch if it were significantly higher of a price. If you want to make them squirm just a tad, you could say that all you have is the $600 as agreed but need the vehicle and could they make some kind of allowance or adjustment to give you a little time to come up with the rest of it since it wasn't expected?... even if you have it. Or, if they don't want you to take it before you pay for it, and you don't actually need it right away, you can tell them you don't have the money right now, the $600 yes, but not more, and let it sit for a few weeks (not giving them anything right away). I don't think they'd like that a whole lot and might be enough to help them to remember that they need to call when they want to do extra.

I agree with the comment above about not burning bridges, though. A good mechanic isn't always easy to find.

Good luck.

Ozarks Tom · #12 08/28/14, 03:25 PM

I had a similar situation with my ZTR a while back. Surprises, especially about money, don't fly around here. He quotes $600, he gets paid $600. He's the professional, if he knew to begin with both cylinders should be replaced he should have either quoted that or only done the work you authorized. I'd offer him the $600 as full payment, and if he wouldn't release the vehicle without more money I'd go to small claims court and have the judge force him to release it. Keep in mind he might file a lien on an "unclaimed" vehicle and try to get title, so don't wait to file with small claims.

I agree with others that a good/honest mechanic is hard to find, but when someone starts reaching in my wallet unannounced, they're neither.

bja105 · #13 08/28/14, 07:19 PM

I do repairs every day, HVAC work in homes. We are flat rate, everything is quoted and approved. If I said $600, and tried to collect more? No way! Unforeseen problems show up, I tell the customer, and adjust the quote. No work is done without authorization. When I am at my best, I tell the customer what else I might find when I have things apart, and prepare them for the cost, before I even know for sure there is a problem. I am expected to be the expert, after all.

I once had a very similar situation with my F150 and the local shop. They are walking distance from my house, and do good work. They charged me more than they quoted, and did work I didn't ask for. I would push my truck home before I ever spent another penny there!

Nimrod · #14 08/28/14, 10:56 PM

I moved up here 3 1/2 years ago and have not had to bring the Bronco into a shop until now so I didn't know anything about them.

I got a ride down to the shop this afternoon. The mechanic I had talked to and who did the work was there but they said he was at lunch.

I talked to the shop owner and explained that I was not happy that they did unauthorized work. I was very calm and courteous. He pulled up a bill for $660 and I initially said that would be alright but in the same breath I caught that he master cylinder wasn't on there so I pointed that out. He refigured the bill and made the total $600 for everything. I thought that was more than fair, told him so, paid him, thanked him, and was on my way.

The only time the truck has been in a shop since I bought it new has been to replace the slave cylinder the 4 times. I have done all the maintenance and repair work on it otherwise. This means I am unlikely to have to bring it into the shop again. I will defiantly brag them up whenever anyone asks.

Rustaholic · #15 08/29/14, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimrod

I moved up here 3 1/2 years ago and have not had to bring the Bronco into a shop until now so I didn't know anything about them.

I got a ride down to the shop this afternoon. The mechanic I had talked to and who did the work was there but they said he was at lunch.

I talked to the shop owner and explained that I was not happy that they did unauthorized work. I was very calm and courteous. He pulled up a bill for $660 and I initially said that would be alright but in the same breath I caught that he master cylinder wasn't on there so I pointed that out. He refigured the bill and made the total $600 for everything. I thought that was more than fair, told him so, paid him, thanked him, and was on my way.

The only time the truck has been in a shop since I bought it new has been to replace the slave cylinder the 4 times. I have done all the maintenance and repair work on it otherwise. This means I am unlikely to have to bring it into the shop again. I will defiantly brag them up whenever anyone asks.

Sounds like a very good shop.
This reminds me of the time my brother toasted the starter on my 1965 Jeep CJ5. I took it in to a shop in town and the guy opened it up and poured the shredded contents onto his work table. He told me $69 and I didn't have it so I told him I would brig it back in two weeks. Two weeks later I took it back to the shop and asked if the price is still $69. He said yes and it would be ready in three days. I walked back in and he handed me a bill for $189. I told him I was quoted $69 and that is what I had. He told me the parts alone were $150 but the price to me is $69. He hadn't ordered parts for one of those old Prestolite starters in a while and they had went up more than he expected them to. His parts book was just too old. It was not my fault if he didn't have up to date parts books. If I had more cash I would have split the price with him because it was such a great shop.

bigjon · #16 08/29/14, 07:45 AM

def i'd go bk if I ever had to!

Yvonne's hubby · #17 08/29/14, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimrod

I know that this is one of Ford's better ideas. This makes 4 times I have had the slave cylinder replaced since I bought the truck new. The slave cylinder doesn't like it when you depress the clutch to start the truck when it's -20 or less. That's when all 4 have broken.

I am a reasonably competent shade tree mechanic. I have replaced the clutch in a 2 wheel drive car when I was younger. I have rebuilt the engine on another car, valve job on another, ball joints on one, and so on. When I took it in it was leaking fluid from the hydraulic clutch system. The only place it was coming out was from the bell housing. I did not authorize replacing the master cylinder when I dropped it off and made a point of telling the mechanic that the master cylinder was good.

The question remains, do I have any recourse?

Yes, you have options here. You can take him to court and most likely will be told by the judge to behave yourself and pay the man.... or you can pay the bill and grumble about it to everyone... or, and I like this one the best... you can stop and think about it, what a cool guy he is, and how much he knows about his job. He saved you the grief and misery of taking your rig back six months from now and having that master cylinder replaced... costing you even more, same with the ujoints... they are cheap, and he already had them out on the bench, so wouldnt have to take it all back apart. Labor isnt cheap, he probably only saved you a hundred bucks or so by going this route... Why not pay your bill, thank the man and tip him an extra fifty for taking care of you? I made my living turning wrenches for a good many years... and yep, I too had customers who couldnt get it through their heads that I was helping them out by doing the job right the first time.

arabian knight · #18 08/29/14, 11:33 AM

Well being it has been taken care of in a beautiful way and a great repair shop at that. The post is moot.
And like he said he will go back if and when the time comes.
Great shop keep up the good relationship with them they sound like a place you can trust.

mark3885 · #19 08/31/14, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

Yes, you have options here. You can take him to court and most likely will be told by the judge to behave yourself and pay the man.... or you can pay the bill and grumble about it to everyone... or, and I like this one the best... you can stop and think about it, what a cool guy he is, and how much he knows about his job. He saved you the grief and misery of taking your rig back six months from now and having that master cylinder replaced... costing you even more, same with the ujoints... they are cheap, and he already had them out on the bench, so wouldnt have to take it all back apart. Labor isnt cheap, he probably only saved you a hundred bucks or so by going this route... Why not pay your bill, thank the man and tip him an extra fifty for taking care of you? I made my living turning wrenches for a good many years... and yep, I too had customers who couldnt get it through their heads that I was helping them out by doing the job right the first time.

Right on , don't know if I'd tip him an extra $50, but definetly go back if needed .

jwal10 · #20 08/31/14, 11:29 AM

Calm and courteous is always best to start. You can always move ahead but hard to take harsh words back AND have to eat crow. Good for you....James