Submersible Deep Well Pumps

keb333 · #1 08/26/14, 06:58 AM

I purchased a home last week.
I am experiencing so issues with my well water.
Water is a brownish yellow color coming out of the inside faucet
and directly from the pump.
#1.The well has not been used in about 2 years

So from reading these forums I tried a 20min on 20min off cycles straight from the well.(by passed pressure tank an connected hose directly to pump.
I ran it one cycle for 20min then shut off for 20min. When I turned it back on I had no water? I turned main power off and back on (I am not sure if it had indeed tripped the breaker).Waited till the next day and I again have water.
I thought either the pump over heated or I ran out of water in the well?

There is a sand filter inline after the pressure tank with a screen filter that I also discharged and cleaned.

I had a bacteria test done before I closed on the home and it came back 0%
I am setting up appointment with county health dept. to do a non organic test but it will take several week to get results back.

#2 I have worked on these types on wells before pulling pump and plumbing
I plan on re doing the entire setup. Placing the sand filter before the pressure switch and pressure tank and pulling pump and installing a rubber adapter to stabilize the pump and hopeful reduce Turbidity.
I will also replace pressure switch and verify that pressure tank operates properly.

#3 My main question is could these issues be caused by well casing or low water. The home is 100 feet from a natural spring lake so I cant believe there is no water.

Any info would greatly be appreciated.
The last thing I want to do is have a new well drilled that being the only thing I cant do my self

Randy Rooster · #2 08/26/14, 07:05 AM

You might possibly have a hole in your well casing or in the pump housing itself- does the water stay discolored no mater how much water you run ? Are you getting sand out of the faucet? In my experience a deep well submersible pump should not be picking up sand if the casing is good.

agmantoo · #3 08/26/14, 07:41 AM

You need to know some facts regarding the existing well. When the well was drilled there should have been a data plate attached to the casing. From that plate you should be able to collect information as to the casing depth, the depth that the well was drilled and the static water depth along with the GPM. The well pump should have been matched to YOUR well. I find that seldom this matching occurs. I really doubt that most installers even know how to read the pump chart. There are guidelines as to how the well casing is to be sealed at the surface also but from my observations the guidelines are poorly adhered to. The type of casing used and the setting of the casing to attain a good seal is often inadequate. For example a steel casing can be seated to bedrock easier than a PVC casing. I often see sand/grit entering into the well itself by water going down the outside of the casing and entering into the well at the junction of the casing to the bedrock. The location of the submersible pump in relation to the drill depth can pick up sand/grit. Dirty silty water is frequently surface water washing down the outside of the casing and entering into the aquifer. I also agree with Randy Rooster's post above. As for a 20 minute time period with pumping and then no water, your storage tank size and the sizing and location of you pump (information from the pump chart) in the well itself needs attention.

MichaelZ · #4 08/26/14, 07:59 AM

Check your pressure tank too - this can prevent the well pump from turning on. My switch on my tank went bad (physically fell apart!) this summer. I had a friend help me replace it and then my pressure tank bladder started to leak and caused the well pump to cycle frequently so I changed that out too. You might want to switch out the pressure tank and switch regardless of what you do - a faulty pressure tank can lead to frequent well pump cycling and burnout.

As far as dirty or sandy water goes, that can be quite a mystery sometimes. Some change in the water table, perhaps from a neighbor's new well, can trigger this. A number of years back, all of a sudden, we had all kinds of sand in our water after my in-law put in a well 300 ft away. I put in an inexpensive inline filter and this took care of it (changing filters every few weeks) and in fact now the sand has stopped on its own.

keb333 · #5 08/26/14, 08:06 AM

I am trying to contact the sellers but that is really difficult the husband is elderly and in poor health (dementia).I will call the wife to see if she can give me any info on the company that drilled the well.
I looked at the well seal to see if I could find any info. I was told that sometimes the drillers mark or tag with code to identify company.
But it is severely rusted and I cant make anything out.
A couple of other things
there were a few very old pumps in the building.
The well is inside a concrete block building
the older pumps look like they were old jet pumps.
But there is a hole is the roof directly above the pump which leads me to believe they may have drilled the deep well at a later date because of issues with the let pump setup.
Also that is why I am having the water analyzed to tell if it is sand or if it is just smaller sediment cause from the pump not being stabilized and moving around in the well.
As far as the water clearing up I was told by the real estate agent that she did some cleaning and the water was clear. But that could have been her using hot water and it had settled in the tank.
I have boiled water to use for cleaning and the sediment does not seem like sand more like fine dust. But the larger sediment could be filtering out at the sand filter.
I can pull pump and inspect and then drop line to determine depth and water level. Just have no way to tell if casing is bad and that is my worst fear it is something that I will not be able to fix

http://www.lowes.com/pd_115637-15649...7C1&facetInfo=

jwal10 · #6 08/26/14, 09:49 AM

They have cameras to drop in the well to check things out. Best to pull pump to get a good look. When you ran pump, did the water quit running during that time? Well level dropped below pump? Sounds like 20 minutes ran well dry. May take more shorter runs to clean up. My guess is the old pumps were above ground, new pump is submersible. Hole in roof is to pull the pump and pipe. When you do the next test get results for mineral content also? Will help with future filtration....James

keb333 · #7 08/26/14, 11:45 AM

I heard about cameras they use to inspect well.
Just have no idea on the cost of that service
and the water did not stop when it was turned on
I ran it for 20mins shut it off. waited 20min.
when I turned it back on it stopped flowing after a couple of mins.
When it stopped I just turned off power. So not sure if breaker tripped or not.
I thought they may have had an above ground pump that caused problems and since the well was inside a building maybe they used hole in roof to drill deeper well?
not sure how well drilling equipment works so don't know if they could drill deeper with just a hole as access.
The few times I pulled deep well pump I just used a pulley and kept walking until the pump was out the ground.
seems like overkill to cut hole in roof just to pull pump but if you had equipment and that was the easiest way then I guess it would make sense

So I am going to have the water sample tested straight from the well before it goes thru the tank and filter that way I know exactly the size of the particles the pump is bringing to the surface

I will have water sample taken Thursday but again it will take a few weeks to get results.
In the mean time this weekend I am going to replace pressure switch and re do the plumbing around the well
I want to mount the filter to a wall and run a line for an outside spigot
If I still have issues I will pull pump and inspect the condition
Maybe then I can call and see what it would cost for some one to run a camera

Ozarks Tom · #8 08/26/14, 02:32 PM

Don't know if NC does this, but Missouri Dept of Natural Resources has data on all wells drilled back to the '60s. You might see if NC has something like it. Any well company can tell you.

jwal10 · #9 08/26/14, 06:01 PM

A lot of old wells had galvanized pipe in 21' lengths, you had to pull up and unthread to remove, one section at a time. You ran the water 20 minutes, turned off 20 minutes and started again and it quit pumping. Probably did run dry then. I would shock with chlorine and run, maybe less time, on, longer time off. Get a measurement of flow, using 2-5 gallon buckets. Fill one, then the next, empty first while filling second, repeat for 10 minutes. how many gallons run. Off 20 minutes and run 10 more. You then know what your GPM flow is. My guess you stirred the water up with the low inflow and high pump rate....James

keb333 · #10 08/27/14, 10:50 AM

so some older submersible pumps use galvanized pipe and not the black plastic flex pipe to hold the pump?
I hope this is not the case.
I think I will use the bucket method to check GPM flow.
Will know more this weekend when I break everything down.

chronic66 · #11 08/27/14, 05:31 PM

I just had a submersible water pump of mine pulled and moved to another location. It was all galvanized iron pipe. They had add a few feet of pipe for the new well and they used pvc pipe.

keb333 · #12 08/28/14, 10:55 AM

Checked the GPM
filled up a five gallon bucket in 30 seconds so guessing roughly 9 to 10 GPM
Also allowed pressure tank to drain and verified it is in working order.
Also verified that the pressure switch is working properly.
I will need to PUT or Replace Pressure Gauge to verify cycle times.
Once I get the Gauge in place I assume I just check the listed settings on the pressure switch and verify that it cuts on and off at the right settings

keb333 · #13 08/29/14, 05:21 AM

Found out yesterday that this is indeed a 4 inch well and that the pipe is likely iron pipe connecting the submersible pump.
The environmental health specialist told me that the county does offer to run a camera down the well for fee. He was unsure if this could be done on a 4” diameter well, But is asking.
Not really the news I wanted.
I have never pulled a submersible well that used rigid pipe. Guessing it is not as easy as pulling one with the black flex pipe.
For now I plan on doing some minor plumbing and connecting a paper filter in the house until I get the results back on the non-organic water sample

jwal10 · #14 08/29/14, 07:47 AM

Run the well as normal, open a faucet before the filter and let it cycle normally, see if this clears up the water. I think it just needs used. A 4" casing is not much water for a reserve, depending on depth of pump, what you did was stir up the bottom and the area around the pipe where the water enters the well through the casing....James

agmantoo · #15 08/29/14, 08:27 AM

I maintain and service a good number of wells. I am well aware that there are 746 watts to 1 HP. I also realize that each well I go to is different. A few of the wells will start and run doing the math but that is not always the case. The length of the wire, the quality of the wire connects, the status of the wiring and the insulation of the pump motor and the condition of the generator, etc., all go toward creating variables and consequently the power requirement required to get the put running. On 1 HP submersible pumps that I want to be assured to have adequate power, I know that I need a generator that will give a steady 6000 KW continuously. Forget the surge power of the generator. PS.....if you want to minimize the load on the generator during start up conditions leave all the water faucets to the property closed until the generator is up and running. Doing so will reduce the load. I know this seems opposite of what most people think but this is a characteristic of a centrifugal pump.