Savings Goal

[Boo8meR]

Ok, I'm 29, married, and have 1 daughter. We're really strongly considering a move off grid in a few years. I should have all of my debt cleared within the next 6 months. We want a simple life. I grew up in the woods all the time and life has mandated I get involved with business and large companies and all of that. I hate it. I hate being in a neighborhood and I hate going to work every day. I have a few questions for the people who have done it...



Is it possible to give up "the real world" cold turkey at a young age?
How much would you have in the bank before making the move (assuming the land and house was paid for up front, not mortgaged)?
Is it possible to supplement income with crop sharing? If so, how much land generates how much income?
What are some of the things I'm not considering?
I'm not trying to do this tomorrow; but, taking the plunge within the next 5 years isn't unreasonable.



Any and all advice you can offer is greatly appreciated. Everything from how much money I should have to where in the country I should go (I hate the heat).

Dick Proenneke is my hero and I envision a life not much unlike his.

[gibbsgirl]

take some weekend or overnight trips to places that interest you. i always find when we go anywhere out of town i'm thinking about how it's different from home, even imagine what it would be like to live there.

most of the time i really don't like it at all and can't picture myself ever living there, even if it's a place we have a good time doing tourist stuff at. seeing places first hand i think just helps solidify your own feelings about what's right for you and yours.

[Boo8meR]

We have already planned several week long trips to regions in which we're interested. That is sound advice, but we won't be buying anything site unseen and we won't be looking in any areas we haven't visited. If we're gonna live there forever and embrace the lifestyle, might as well be happy where we go!

[TnAndy]

Very few folks manage to run a small homestead and make it pay enough to live on.

Even with a paid for homestead, you'll still need income......property taxes, insurances, fuels, stuff you can't grow or make, etc. You can cut the amount tremendously, of course, but not entirely if you want to live in today's type world.

If you can develop a niche market for homestead products, say like Highlands does by raising and butchering (adding value) pigs, you can do fine. That, of course, is not done overnight.

So, the question becomes how little will it take to live on. You can put that into practice right now, cutting you expenses, forecasting those that won't be there in your new place ( water, sewer bills for example )(cut in property taxes), then look at what's the bare minimum left (don't forget homesteading expenses you don't have NOW), and see what sort of income producing method you need to come up with.

[kilgrosh]

In your situation/scenario, here is what I would do to make a smooth transition and ease the learning curve.

I would not go cold turkey. I would find my land, move there, and get a small part-time job in town. The job would be at a place the augments my future plans, like a feed & seed store if I was going to focus on farming. The job is not to bring in income, its to network. I want to meet the people around me, find out what sells in the area, what people need that isn't provided, and learn my new locale. After about a year or so, I would leave the job but maintain the network of friends, associates, and business contacts.

I would have at least a year's worth of expenses in savings. Debt free living can be very cheap so it might not be as much as you think, but I would aim for at least $30,000. With a young daughter and family, I would plan on medical expenses being my biggest expense. Also, I would have an operations budget already saved. Whatever you plan on doing to make a living, it will cost some capital to get it going. Save enough to fund your business for a year. This could mean another $30,000 on top of your $30,000 in living expenses.

I don't know anything about crop sharing so I can't address that question.

This is just how I would go about going off grid. To me off grid doesn't necessarily mean in the middle of nowhere. Off grid means that I am supplying all of my needs and I am not tied in to municipal services. A 10 acre plot 15 minutes outside of 40,000 resident town can do all of that. Just my thoughts on your situation...

[Boo8meR]

Excellent info, thanks. I may have the opportunity to take a job with my current company in an area that would allow us to not go cold turkey. I guess I was just wondering if crop sharing might provide enough income to stop working and focus on the land. I'm sure there could be a few other various income generating options once the land is secured.

I was thinking, if a guy could afford to buy 200-300 acres somewhere in the midwest, regardless of where he put his feet down, and rented the land to a farmer, could that provide enough income to cover the annual operating expenses for a homestead. I know it varies quite a bit by what is grown and the price of said crops; but, it's gotta be a better option (if possible) than trying to sell eggs. My end goal is to not have to worry about the money, to be able to just enjoy the land and the lifestyle.

I will keep this in mind. We're still at least 2 years out from doing this. Realistically, more like 3-5 if we intend to save enough money to throttle back the employment efforts.

[jassytoo]

I think most of us enjoyed the Dick Proenneke videos. I know I did, I have them all. But, remember Dick did not grow all his own food for a start. Homesteading is hard work, not that we don't enjoy it but leisure time is hard to find. You'll need some kind of income. As mentioned taxes, medical, gas, dentist for a start need cash to pay for them. Practice what you can now. Garden, can, cut out all unnecessary expenses. Raise a few rabbits and chickens if you can and learn how to butcher. Bake your own bread, learn to sew. Wean yourselves away from tv and other electronics. If you don't intend to work for a pay check odds are you won't have money for all that. You don't need to do everything all at once. Ease into the new lifestyle slowly, for most of us it's a balance between the two worlds.

[fishhead]

I would start by recording every penny you spend so that you really understand where you are currently spending your money. Even though it's not the same as your future spending it will at least give you a picture of what you're costs are now.

Last winter I got some free advice on preparing a budget and have since recorded every penny spent. That has really helped me understand the costs of living. One critical thing is to work on reducing future expenses. Spending money on insulation now so that you get rid of the annual energy costs later is a good example.

Midwest farmland is pretty expensive now with some going for more than $10,000/acre.

[Boo8meR]

Thanks!

We've been trying to do more and more of that. We've cut out a lot of expenses, we had a successful garden this year and we've put up a lot of stuff. I already butcher all of the wild game I shoot, process my own meat, make my own sausage, jerky, steaks, burger, etc. We don't have any experience with livestock; but, we intend to dabble over the next few years. We won't be able to have any in our current situation, so we're planning to volunteer at local farms to learn. We've really started canning a lot of stuff lately and we're trying to learn more and more about the lifestyle so it isn't a culture shock.

Maybe it isn't quite possible to do it cold turkey, I was just wondering if a guy had enough in the bank and a decent income from crop sharing if it may free up the financial side of things and allow a guy to focus on the dream!

Keep the advice coming, though. It's probably pushing us back towards common sense. We're still young enough that it wouldn't be the end of the world if I had to keep my job (wife doesn't work). Each year of work would probably really help us in the long run.

Thanks for the advice, guys!

[Boo8meR]

Originally Posted by fishhead

I would start by recording every penny you spend so that you really understand where you are currently spending your money. Even though it's not the same as your future spending it will at least give you a picture of what you're costs are now.

Last winter I got some free advice on preparing a budget and have since recorded every penny spent. That has really helped me understand the costs of living. One critical thing is to work on reducing future expenses. Spending money on insulation now so that you get rid of the annual energy costs later is a good example.

Midwest farmland is pretty expensive now with some going for more than $10,000/acre.

I didn't know it was quite that high; but, to be honest, I'm not too entirely concerned with the price so long as it'll provide an income. If I buy it outright and then it continues producing income for the rest of our lives, not only will it eventually pay for itself, it'll give us the means with which we can live out this dream. Not to mention the ROI will eventually outweigh the risk and if it maintains that resale value and is owned outright, I would imagine the investment could be recovered at any time.

[Maura]

The people here who rent their acreage make enough money to pay taxes on said acreage. I suppose you could make a little more than just for taxes and it will vary from one area to the next. Once you decide on an area, find out what land rents for. Land is variable, there is Number 1, Number 2, Number 3. Sandy loam, etc. Number 3 land is most likely to be used for pasture. Number 1 will be most expensive. You might want to buy acreage and rent it until you are ready to do something with it yourself.

Dick Proennekke is all well and good, but your children will need social interaction with others even if you don’t. In the next five years, how many children do you think you will have? (I am guessing three). It would be nice to have them while on your employer’s health insurance. Don’t forget that your wife needs to have input and while you may be on the same page about living in the country, make sure the details mesh.

[Maura]

Don’t be all caught up in having enough money to buy your land and build your house all with savings. If you buy vacant land, pay cash for it. The land will be considered an asset and help you get a mortgage for building a house. If you are buying property with a house, put down a sizable down payment and get a mortgage. You can either be putting the money into the bank and waiting, or putting the money into your home and live the life you want. The house we currently live in was mortgage free, but that was because a) we are much older than you and made a profit from selling our home for more than we paid for it; b) had money in savings; and, c) contracted ourselves for things we could not do, and built the rest ourselves. Don’t be afraid to get a mortgage for your dream home. If you are otherwise debt free, you are ahead of the crowd.

[Boo8meR]

Originally Posted by Maura

The people here who rent their acreage make enough money to pay taxes on said acreage. I suppose you could make a little more than just for taxes and it will vary from one area to the next. Once you decide on an area, find out what land rents for. Land is variable, there is Number 1, Number 2, Number 3. Sandy loam, etc. Number 3 land is most likely to be used for pasture. Number 1 will be most expensive. You might want to buy acreage and rent it until you are ready to do something with it yourself.

Dick Proennekke is all well and good, but your children will need social interaction with others even if you don’t. In the next five years, how many children do you think you will have? (I am guessing three). It would be nice to have them while on your employer’s health insurance. Don’t forget that your wife needs to have input and while you may be on the same page about living in the country, make sure the details mesh.

No more kids. One and done. We'd planned to go off the grid in an area that's still close enough to some type of city/town for our daughter to attend school. My wife is on board with all of it, she's making bread as we speak with some zucchinis from our garden. We're trying to do all of this together, as we're developing the plan, we talk about the details and make sure we're on the same page.

Interesting you'd make that suggestion about the land and renting it until we decide to move on it. We'd considered doing just that. Take a few trips over the next year or so and figure out where we want to be, then get with a realtor to do some research and make sure we have all of the restrictions and water rights issues solved before buying anything. Then, we'd considered paying for the land and taking another year working so we can have the funds to build on the house. Basically step by step until it's move-in ready. I hadn't even considered renting the land we intend to use, though. Great idea.

I have the opportunity to do this and keep working if I do it in CO or WY. I've heard HORROR stories about trying to homestead in CO, though, because of all the water rights issues and restrictions on wells, livestock, etc. I've also heard about some problems in WY with alkali flats and water issues. We'd be looking at buying 100+ acres when we do this. I'm sure people do it, I'd just like to hear more. If doing this the right way means a blended transition from working to not working, then it looks like CO/WY will be my best bet.

Pros & cons of each? Any information on the two would be greatly appreciated. Not that we're doing it any time soon; but, as I've stated, we're going to start taking trips to these places within the next few months so I'd like to at least make sure we visit potential homesites, not just a tour of the US!

[emdeengee]

I know this is not what people want to hear but in my opinion AND experience it is not feasible or desirable to give up the modern world cold turkey. And nearly impossible at a young age. And if you have children they must always come first.

The idea of a Little House on the Prairie lifestyle is not practical. But you absolutely can get a big part of it. Paid work plus self sufficiency work. It may take longer to get all you want but meanwhile you can get all you need.

We live in one of the last great wilderness territories in Canada and all of our friends and at least half the population are living different versions of the self sufficiency life style but ALL work at outside jobs. This includes full time and part time or seasonal work - teaching, nursing, firefighting, piloting, outfitting, writing, painting, music, baking, raising goats, chickens, potatoes, bison, tourism, gold mining, dog training, environmental monitoring, mushroom picking, wood cutting. You have to have cash coming in.

Everyone is at different stages of their self sufficiency life style but all of it requires money and time. Money to get the land and facilities you want and time to do the work as well as time to build your new life. Any business that you start off of your homestead will take years to establish and make completely financially viable. Unless you plan on going into real farming.

Since you will not be making a move for a few years it is very good that you are working towards a debt free state (and will presumably keep it that way) and have time to save and learn.

There is no reason why you cannot start living parts of your homesteading lifestyle right now. Everything takes time to learn. Baking bread and canning was hard for me but I was already a pro at the basics by the time I had to fight with a wood burning stove!

My husband knew a lot about animals but I only knew horses so working on a farm during my holidays and on weekends taught me a lot. Same for gardening and caring for an orchard and vineyard.

In five years you and your family could already be comfortable with a lot of the homesteading lifestyle. If you want to practice off the grid then turn off the breakers (not the fridge!) and practice. Same for water. Pretend the garden tap is your well and learn about fetching and carrying and also working with only cold water. Then learn about solar panels and wind turbines.

I don't mean to discourage anyone because the benefits are immeasurable but our modern world requires money. In the old days if your child had an infected tooth you pulled it and hoped there was no abscess or that it could be treated with garlic. Today I would want to take my child to the dentist and get antibiotics. I love horses but most land that is available today is far enough out that it requires a fossil fuel vehicle.

[o&itw]

Actually, I would suggest a full time job, untill you can get your new place up and running, if that is possible. There is lots of experience you will need to gain, and that can be better done while you have the money to save your plans when you get in a bind.

Most people that go into homesteading with no job or a very low income, don't make it.... even if they have the experience. They may last a few years, but that's it. It is a physically demanding life, and it requires giving up a number of modern amenities. With a job (and a place that is paid off) you can take the time to learn all the thousands of little things that are part of being succesfull in a homesteading situation, and adjust your pace. Then, when you know the time is right, you can cut the ties from a formal job, already understanding how much money you will need to live on, and how you are going to come up with that income, whether by a part time job, or a home industry.

[Boo8meR]

Originally Posted by Maura

Don’t be all caught up in having enough money to buy your land and build your house all with savings. If you buy vacant land, pay cash for it. The land will be considered an asset and help you get a mortgage for building a house. If you are buying property with a house, put down a sizable down payment and get a mortgage. You can either be putting the money into the bank and waiting, or putting the money into your home and live the life you want. The house we currently live in was mortgage free, but that was because a) we are much older than you and made a profit from selling our home for more than we paid for it; b) had money in savings; and, c) contracted ourselves for things we could not do, and built the rest ourselves. Don’t be afraid to get a mortgage for your dream home. If you are otherwise debt free, you are ahead of the crowd.

Let's not make generalizations because I'm young. I have a lucrative career and I own a house in Alaska that I'll be selling when I make this transition in order to help fund it. To date, it's appreciated quite nicely. I intend to do it without any mortgage so I can lessen the income requirement burden.

I'm not afraid to get a mortgage and I really do understand where you're coming from, I just think it's possible without a mortgage - and - given that option, it's the one I'd choose.

I'm glad everyone has chimed in on this. I didn't quite realize all of the various obstacles of doing this. It's starting to sound more and more like working for a couple years after the initial transition isn't entirely a terrible idea. Sure, I want to get away from it; but, it looks like it may help to smooth the transition process. Definitely something to keep in mind and explore further.

With that said, it'd probably mean Colorado or Wyoming. Does anyone have real experience in either place? If so, care to offer any advice on either (or both?)

Thanks for the help, guys. Every time someone posts, we read it and add another few items to our plan. Keep 'em coming, we're humbled already.

[gibbsgirl]

Originally Posted by jassytoo

I think most of us enjoyed the Dick Proenneke videos. I know I did, I have them all.

please link or list these videos! I've only seen one. didn't even know there were others. Yippee.

[gibbsgirl]

[/QUOTE]
With that said, it'd probably mean Colorado or Wyoming. Does anyone have real experience in either place? If so, care to offer any advice on either (or both?)
[/QUOTE]

I have lots of family in South Dakota. The way they tell it. Wyoming is better. Colorado is too liberal. I tend to agree. But, we're real conservative.

Just wouldn't like to political climate in Colorado. I'd be too worried about govt regulations and changing rules/laws down the line interfering with being able to do what we like.

Wyoming seems the more government hands off of the two. But, like I said that's just my impression based on talk over the years I've heard.

[Maura]

If you can get it all without a mortgage, that would be great. It’s just that people put off their plans for twenty years because they think they have to do it all with cash. Mortgage isn’t a bad word, you just have to be able to weigh the money this way and that. Yea, I know people who made a sufficient income very young to pay cash for their house. Most people don’t.

[Boo8meR]

Originally Posted by Maura

If you can get it all without a mortgage, that would be great. It’s just that people put off their plans for twenty years because they think they have to do it all with cash. Mortgage isn’t a bad word, you just have to be able to weigh the money this way and that. Yea, I know people who made a sufficient income very young to pay cash for their house. Most people don’t.

Agreed. Most people don't "throw it all away" to have a small farm, either!