Supporting like minded folks, or not??

[Muleman]

Honestly, there was a time when I never gave this any thought. I used to buy at the best price regardless. Then, as I got older I began to like working on things less and less and started to buy a little more based on quality and longevity. Now, as I get a bit older yet, I am starting to take a close look at the companies I am buying from and what they stand for or support.

So now come the tough decisions, Like. What if I find one company that I really like, they are an American company with similar farming values and back ground and seem to really be interested in helping farming families get the equipment they need, BUT. I find a similar product that seems fairly equal, but is imported from overseas and resold by a wholesaler who is simply doing business, and has no other interest in what I do or how I do it. BUT, their product is considerably cheaper than the first company?? Now what? Do you spend the extra money to support like minded folks or do you protect your own bottom line and simply buy the cheaper product??

another example: You find someone who came up with a new idea and started a little company making his equipment and now has an internet farm store selling them. BUT, you go on Ebay and find a similar product where someone has simply copied the idea and is reproducing it and selling it a bit cheaper, but obviously stole the idea from the creator? Who do you buy from?? The guy who originally made it, even though it cost more, or do you just chalk it up to a free market and buy the copy cat one for a few dollars less on Ebay???

I really like to try and credit the creators for their inventions and support like minded people when I can, but where do you draw the line? $20.00 more $200.00 more??? At some point does it get to where you just have to go with the cheaper import/copy? or do you hold your ground and just put off the purchase until you can afford the higher priced one??

[Vickie44]

I try to support local and businesses of integrity whenever possible. Offer them the opportunity to match the lessor price. I guess I would be ok with $20 dif , not with $200.

[crazyfarm]

My DH has a real problem with my spending money. It feels immoral to buy the cheaper option but I would have to.

[Yvonne's hubby]

I seldom argue with those who sell cheaper stuff.... I figure they know what their product is worth.

[Wulfespirit]

I don't think there is a formula that defines this. Your financial resources, parameters of expected use for whatever you're buying, and need for service when it comes the purchase all need to be considered.

If your local economy offers a better product or substantially better service but for a higher price, I would personally go that route if I could afford it. If the local person is selling the same thing at a higher premium without really providing me with extra value then I might ask them exactly why I should buy from them (ie. see if they'll price match).

[Maura]

To what extent will you follow your heart? Are you concerned with fair labor practices? Prison labor (unpaid, long hours, sometimes killing the prisoner through overwork)? Going for the cheaper product is one reason so many American businesses have gone under. I agree with contacting the preferred business and asking if they will match the price. They may not be able to match it, but might give you a discount.

As for stealing someone’s idea, contact the creator and inform them that someone is selling their stuff on ebay for less.

[Muleman]

I would name the products I am talking about, but not sure if I should? I think this premise actually applies to many products. As for the stealing of the idea I am sure he knows, but they are smart and do not call if by the same name, but say "LIKE" then use the same name. I agree in that case I will not buy the copycat product. I see nothing wrong with a individual seeing a product then going home and making for themselves a similar one if they have the time and talent to reproduce something close from memory, but I think it crosses a line when you duplicate someones idea exactly then offer it for sale to the public and even use marketing that would make it appear as the original. I just know there are lots of small upstart American farm products companies with the popularity of Homesteading today, and there are many importing cheap copies and tools from Asian countries. I guess I am just curious as to how everyone else feels about it. I agree with the basic principal of supporting our American companies, but a person must be realistic about what they can afford also. A $400 dollar difference is what I am looking at on this particular product. To me that is enough difference that I can afford one, but cannot actually afford the other. My only choice seems to buy neither, and try to make something that will work equally as well.

[fordy]

...............I'd want to have both products , side by side , then evaluate as much as possible how they compare ! Most knockoff's will be of Chinese extraction..........and it very well maybe they made improvements that the American patent holder can transfer over to 'His' product .
...............It's also possible that the American product can be mfged in Mexico , while maintaining or improving the quality at a lower cost per item , which then means that 'He' will have more flexability to lower his price , IF necessary . , fordy

[topofmountain]

My belief although selfish is I have to take care of me & my family first. I can't worry about a thing like this. Now if the prices are close that is different.
But if I did as you suggest. I would never buy anything from a grocery store, home depot walmart etc.
Is this inventor going to be there to help me out in a pinch? most likely not.
Sadly it is a doggy world.

[Wolf mom]

A lot of this discussion would be moot if the government were to reduce taxes on corporations. We have the highest tax in the world.

Corporations would then not go overseas to make their products and we would be more competitive and not have as many cheap imports as American companies could sell at lower prices.

Know why huge corporations like GE (who paid no taxes last year) don't want to lower the corporate tax rate? 'Cause they have enough tax staff to ferret out tax loop holes. It also lessens the competition as small to mid size businesses can't afford the staff to take advantage of the very complex tax loopholes/code.

Read what's going on in the news today about marriages between American corporations and foreign businesses. Lots of changes comin' down the line as Obama tries to figure out how to keep American businesses in America. The answer is as plain as his ears - lower the corporate tax.

BTW: when I was growing up, I learned you can't legislate morality. This administration is making noises about doing just that to make you buy American. Never mind those who can't afford Made In America.

[clovis]

To me, I try to buy the best quality, from someone local, and tend to buy from the smallest business, like the locally owned auto parts store, even though we have 5 other corporate chain stores here.

In your case, I'd want to look at both pieces of equipment. If it is really $400 cheaper, there is a tremendous chance that the knock off item was cheapened too. They probably cut corners wherever they could, using lighter gauge steel or iron, cheaper bearings, cheaper bushings, cheaper paint, cheaper everything. There is also a good chance that they took short cuts in the manufacture, like shortening the width by 2 inches, etc.

I would also consider replacement parts. If a bearing goes out on the knock off, can you find a replacement bearing easily???? How many days will you have to wait on getting one? There is a good chance that the better company will have those parts in stock, and are ready to ship them.

Warranty. A good company will take care of you. If it breaks in half out in the field, my bet is that the US company will provide good customer service.

Lastly, resale value. If you or your heirs ever need to sell it, you will get more from a quality name brand item than a cheap knock off. I've been to auctions where a used Stihl chainsaw will sell for almost as much as a new one, but the cheap saws can't be given away.

It depends on the item, how much you are using it, the life expectancy of the item, etc.

[BadFordRanger]

I used to buy the top quality of anything I was looking for, but the situation that I am in now, I am forced to buy whatever I can find that will get the job done.
Hopefully I am going to be able to start a business next year and all that will change. I'll go back to the quality products and materials and at that point, I will do my ever loving best to buy American Made, and further more, I am hoping on producing things that are now being made in China, right here in the Good Ole US of A, and start taking our jobs back.
There some things that I can make and sale for what they are selling the China crap for and earn enough profit to be able to make a fair pay check for people here.
Fair meaning a bit better than what the payroll runs in this area, which is just about the worse in the country. But the living cost is about the lowest also, so an extra 50/100 bucks a week means a lot around here.
That is why I am so hard at getting my boiler built to keep from paying a $588.40 heating bill this January like I did last year.
I am hoping to see about a $88.40 utility bill this January.
And that $500 bucks saved will go a long ways toward getting me back out the hole, one more time.
If I can just keep from having another accident this time.

Godspeed

Ranger

PS. I had a really good friend, Allen Overstreet, God Rest his Soul, that came up with a saying a few years ago I'd like to share.
He'd say,
"We the willing,
have done so much,
for so long,
with so little,
that we are now qualified,
to do nearly anything,
with hardly nothing at all !"

He tickled the dickens out of me when he'd say that because he was always talking about me making something using nothing but scraps and used parts, or something cheap to buy, like the EMT conduit that I built a trailer with, along with a front end off an old busted riding lawn mower for the axles and tires and some bed rails to widen the axle out, which would carry about a half cord of firewood out of the woods.

Godspeed

[Muleman]

Well, I started out going to build something. Then I found I could buy a cheaper import for a few hundred more, but then I figured the American made real deal was about $400 more. Wow, now we are $600 over or 2 times what I could make it for ??? So now I am back to thinking I will just make it. I do hate supporting the Chinese more than I have too. Yes, I have bought some Harbor Freight stuff, but there is definitely a quality difference from that to American made tools. But I have to be honest, some tools, if I had not got there, I simply would not have because I could not have afforded American made, and they are tools that are seldom used.

[ChristieAcres]

We buy US made or usually used US made, over buying anything made in China. In addition, we buy local, and patronize privately owned businesses as much as possible.

An example? My DD told me she needed a large piece of luggage, on wheels, since she was getting married and going on a trip. I recommended she check out both of the thrift stores here (one is ran by a Church and is non-profit). I took her to that one, first. She found a great piece of luggage for only $7; it looked brand new. I got a great older bathroom/make up hard shell case for only $3.50. DD told me she had almost paid $90 for one piece of new luggage, but was so glad she decided to wait and see what she could find used. Oh, the luggage pieces are US made, purchased used, and benefits a charity.

Since DH can fix almost anything, he will look on Craigslist for anything he needs. Rather than buy junk, he will buy a used quality tool or piece of machinery. He is good at assessing the condition, fortunately.

[slingshot]

I'm right there with ya....

I find my self on this train of thought more and more, unfortunately there's not a lot that can be done about.

Sure you can choose the American one, problem is you don't have an endless supply of money and at the end of the day your purchase hurts neither company in the least. I buy quality when I can but not to the point of just being irrational.

There's so much slight of hand with most company's anyway that you really don't know where they come from( think ford trucks!) I don't agree with it but I can't change it either.

One thing that really gets me is the cost of clothing, a lined zip up sweatshirt at dicks costs 50-75 bucks, a very similar shirt at Walmart costs 20. From 5 feet away you can't tell the difference, both keep you warm and comfy crazy thing is the cheaper one outlasts the high dollar one "made for work". What's the difference between a 40 dollar pair of jeans and a 90 dollar pair? 50 bucks and that's about it. I saw some cotton t shirts for sale with UFC logos and such, 60 dollars?! It's still a 5 dollar screen printed cotton shirt made in Malaysia, that won't last more than a trip or two through the laundry.

I buy quality used items as well, people think because something is six months old they need a replacement. I got my boots on eBay 289.00 red wings for 70 shipped because the guy bought the wrong size instead of returning them he liquidated them. They were still wired together never worn. That was 3 years ago and I still wear them almost everyday.

So many people waste so much money because they get tricked by advertising. Like I said I do the best I can to make good smart purchases and save as much money reasonably.

[Muleman]

I know it is not a black and white issue and a person has to be realistic about what they can really afford to do. I buy used when I can, I have no problem with that. Lori, I also buy on CL a lot to. My wife is going today to pick up a used S.S. table for us to use for butchering this fall. $200 on CL. The closest I could find new online was over $800 and that was for the cheapest one. My wife and kids all shop at thrift stores in town, like I said we have no problem with used. Some things are just hard to find used, especially now since Homesteading has become more popular. What we always thought of as just living a simple life and doing for ourselves as best we can, is now called Homesteading. I think it is great that more people are seeing the value in being more self sufficient, the downside is, many of the tools etc. needed for everyday work are being bought up and the prices going up, because of the demand.

Here is the other thing I think is happening, but maybe I am being too pessimistic in this? IDK. I think there are those cashing in on the Homesteading movement, with no real interest in it. When this subsides they will just as likely start selling "bulk chemicals", if there is profit in that. They are making items they know people will need or want and turning profits by falsely advertising as being "one of us" so to speak. This has made me look harder at companies I deal with lately. Are they sincere in their concern? are they really like minded? or are they just using the whole image of "just another homesteader trying to make it", as a marketing ploy to cover up, just another company out to make a buck. I believe if a person sells something they should make a profit, not down on that, I just do not like the idea of this made up "I am one of you" persona, when they are simply a wheeler dealer wanting to cash in on a growing market sector. I know there are those who will say that is just capitalism, but I think you can have capitalism and integrity at the same time.

[slingshot]

Originally Posted by Muleman

I know it is not a black and white issue and a person has to be realistic about what they can really afford to do. I buy used when I can, I have no problem with that. Lori, I also buy on CL a lot to. My wife is going today to pick up a used S.S. table for us to use for butchering this fall. $200 on CL. The closest I could find new online was over $800 and that was for the cheapest one. My wife and kids all shop at thrift stores in town, like I said we have no problem with used. Some things are just hard to find used, especially now since Homesteading has become more popular. What we always thought of as just living a simple life and doing for ourselves as best we can, is now called Homesteading. I think it is great that more people are seeing the value in being more self sufficient, the downside is, many of the tools etc. needed for everyday work are being bought up and the prices going up, because of the demand.

Here is the other thing I think is happening, but maybe I am being too pessimistic in this? IDK. I think there are those cashing in on the Homesteading movement, with no real interest in it. When this subsides they will just as likely start selling "bulk chemicals", if there is profit in that. They are making items they know people will need or want and turning profits by falsely advertising as being "one of us" so to speak. This has made me look harder at companies I deal with lately. Are they sincere in their concern? are they really like minded? or are they just using the whole image of "just another homesteader trying to make it", as a marketing ploy to cover up, just another company out to make a buck. I believe if a person sells something they should make a profit, not down on that, I just do not like the idea of this made up "I am one of you" persona, when they are simply a wheeler dealer wanting to cash in on a growing market sector. I know there are those who will say that is just capitalism, but I think you can have capitalism and integrity at the same time.

Agreed.....

If anyone thinks otherwise they only have to look as far as whole foods

[FarmboyBill]

Lorie, that US Made label can be tricky. I worked for a glass company 19+yrs. They got to putting that label on there glass ware that they sent out to be sold. Thing is, they didn't tell anybody that they bought there arsenic from Mexico, their tools that we used to work on the machinery from India, China, and elsewhere, and even there glass making machinery from Italy.
That label, tho making one feel patriotic in buying from a company which displays it, isn't usually telling the whole story.

[Muleman]

Bill,
You are exactly right on that lots of deceiving labels now. I will give an example I know of personally. We used to have a shirt factory in town. Minimum wage work, but employees 300 workers. The Union tried to come in and the workers sided with the company and rejected the Union at one time even. Later there was talk of the factory moving to Mexico. The company denied it. Then they opened factories in Mexico "only expanding" is what they said. U.S. workers were sent to Mexico to train. The shirts started being made in Mexico. ALL BUT THE LABEL. Without the label it was not a "Finished Product" cheaper import taxes. The workers in the U.S. plant would receive a complete shirt and sew in the label which read "assembled in the U.S." Read labels very closely, there are many products which say this now "Assembled" many people who do not know simply read over this and see the big U.S. and assume it was actually made here, when it was in fact NOT. Look around Walmart and you will find this a lot.
BTW, The company closed all 6 or the Arkansas plants and moved the whole operation to Mexico, once the U.S. workers had fully trained all the Mexican workers. The company had contracts with many big names stores like JC Penny and several others. within a few years after the move they lost all of the contracts, because of the drastic drop in quality, the company is now out of business.

Check labels closely, just because there is a big flag and it is red white and blue does not mean it was made here, read the actual wording.

[Muleman]

Sorry, double posted somehow??