Booker T. Whatley's Small Farm Plan

[geo in mi]

Anybody ever hear of Booker T. Whatley? Here's an interesting interview. He did his work in the 1980's, so some of the figures are outdated, but, still an interesting concept: http://www.motherearthnews.com/homes...#axzz39heUuLIa

geo

[DSBlack]

Interesting read, I particularly like the self - pick setup.

[Dixie Bee Acres]

Sounds interesting enough, but I wonder, in the decades since that plan was initially introduced, how many have actually been able to implement it with success.

[Le Petit Norman]

Nice to see someone thinking outside of the box … too bad his vision is still too narrow …

quote from page 9

How about keeping, say, just one pig for your own meat?

That doesn't make sense. You have to feed it and spend time taking care of it. Why, by the time you're done, your pork chops'll probably cost about $10 a pound!


For some reason I believe this is one of the issue of agriculture … farmer do not feed themselves to start with … how can expect them to feed others ...

[DSBlack]

Originally Posted by Le Petit Norman

Nice to see someone thinking outside of the box … too bad his vision is still too narrow …

quote from page 9

How about keeping, say, just one pig for your own meat?

That doesn't make sense. You have to feed it and spend time taking care of it. Why, by the time you're done, your pork chops'll probably cost about $10 a pound!


For some reason I believe this is one of the issue of agriculture … farmer do not feed themselves to start with … how can expect them to feed others ...

The mindset of 'consumption = expense' is why in all likelihood I will have specific animals and 'gardens' earmarked for personal use. I imagine it can be very easy to fall into the perspective that eating your own goods is lost profit.

[geo in mi]

Today's CSA's resemble his plan, in a sense. The main principle, to me, is that he advocates what is now known as "niche" farming and marketing, rather than trying to compete with the BTO's on a small scale basis.

My neighbor seems to do pretty well with U-Pick strawberries. There is another location nearby that does U-Pick red raspberries, under plastic tunnels.

I'm thinking that one niche may be seed starting on a CSA style basis. You develop a clientele and grow the seeds they choose, on contract. They pick up the started, hardened-off plants when they are ready. I would like to try other varieties of plants that the garden centers and BB stores don't carry.

geo

[slingshot]

Originally Posted by Le Petit Norman

Nice to see someone thinking outside of the box … too bad his vision is still too narrow …

quote from page 9

How about keeping, say, just one pig for your own meat?

That doesn't make sense. You have to feed it and spend time taking care of it. Why, by the time you're done, your pork chops'll probably cost about $10 a pound!


For some reason I believe this is one of the issue of agriculture … farmer do not feed themselves to start with … how can expect them to feed others ...

Not completely true....

We have been able to raise out own pork for under $3.00 a pound. Where a lot of people miss the boat is it doesn't cost much more to raise two and sell one than you eat for free.

Contrary to popular belief, some time is free. It takes me less time a week to care for all my animals than most people spend in one night watching tv. If your not doing anything else you can't really count your time as cost.

It's not near as problematic as most folks think, being efficient and making smart decisions are the things that separate the successful.

[geo in mi]

I had a friend who got audited by the IRS. The auditor asked him, "You sold your pigs for $$$?" "Yep, here's the sale receipt." "Did you slaughter a pig for yourself?" "Yep." "Show me where you declared it as income at $$$...."

geo

[slingshot]

Originally Posted by geo in mi

I had a friend who got audited by the IRS. The auditor asked him, "You sold your pigs for $$$?" "Yep, here's the sale receipt." "Did you slaughter a pig for yourself?" "Yep." "Show me where you declared it as income at $$$...."

geo

Works both ways....

Sell a single once of pork and the entire operation is deductible. While you do have to claim the income, you get to write off all feed costs, mileage to get it, material costs and building deprecation.

You pay taxes on your home your entire life and don't get anything for deprecation, put a pig in a barn with access to a field that you mow and you get credit for everything. Pig, barn, mower, fuel and power.

[sammyd]

selling an ounce of pork doesn't qualify you for being a farm unless you have some really high priced pork.
Even selling a single pig out of a batch of three might not hold up if you get an audit.
You could be labeled as an activity not engaged for profit and go under the hobby loss rules which do not allow as much write off as a for profit farm.

[highlands]

Originally Posted by Le Petit Norman

How about keeping, say, just one pig for your own meat? That doesn't make sense. You have to feed it and spend time taking care of it. Why, by the time you're done, your pork chops'll probably cost about $10 a pound!

Rather depends on how you are doing it.

If you buy piglets, feed them store bought grain from 50 lb bags and pay for processing then yes that will be some very expensive pork.

If you raise the pig on pasture with no bought grain and process it yourself then the cost is minimal - basically the cost of the piglet and some fencing that can be used for years. Figure about $1/lb for top quality healthy pork.

Your labor is free unless you're hiring people to work for you. It's better than going to the gym and paying for a membership there so don't start charging yourself for labor.

Choose which way you want to do it and you get different prices.

Originally Posted by Le Petit Norman

For some reason I believe this is one of the issue of agriculture … farmer do not feed themselves to start with … how can expect them to feed others ...

A bit of a fallacy. Farmers don't produce everything. Even a diversified farm only produces some things. I can produce everything we need but that is a far cry from everything that we want. I do not produce olive oil or chocolate. I can substitute lard and honey or maple syrup but I enjoy variety. Our farm's primary product's pastured pork. We produce a lot of pastured pork. It pays our mortgage and all our bills. We're very good at producing pastured pork. Our land is right for that crop. Our land is totally wrong for producing wheat to make bread. I buy flour. While I can produce everything I need I don't limit myself to that.

Originally Posted by slingshot

Works both ways.... Sell a single once of pork and the entire operation is deductible. While you do have to claim the income, you get to write off all feed costs, mileage to get it, material costs and building deprecation.

Not really. Unless you are making a profit and showing that you are actively pursing it as a business the IRS will likely call it a hobby and you can't deduct expenses. You'll still need to declare income though.

Cheers,

-Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/

[slingshot]

Originally Posted by highlands

Rather depends on how you are doing it.

If you buy piglets, feed them store bought grain from 50 lb bags and pay for processing then yes that will be some very expensive pork.

If you raise the pig on pasture with no bought grain and process it yourself then the cost is minimal - basically the cost of the piglet and some fencing that can be used for years. Figure about $1/lb for top quality healthy pork.

Your labor is free unless you're hiring people to work for you. It's better than going to the gym and paying for a membership there so don't start charging yourself for labor.

Choose which way you want to do it and you get different prices.



A bit of a fallacy. Farmers don't produce everything. Even a diversified farm only produces some things. I can produce everything we need but that is a far cry from everything that we want. I do not produce olive oil or chocolate. I can substitute lard and honey or maple syrup but I enjoy variety. Our farm's primary product's pastured pork. We produce a lot of pastured pork. It pays our mortgage and all our bills. We're very good at producing pastured pork. Our land is right for that crop. Our land is totally wrong for producing wheat to make bread. I buy flour. While I can produce everything I need I don't limit myself to that.



Not really. Unless you are making a profit and showing that you are actively pursing it as a business the IRS will likely call it a hobby and you can't deduct expenses. You'll still need to declare income though.

Cheers,

-Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/

I was talking in terms of a for profit operation, as far as it relates to farmers not making any money or being able to feed themselves.

[highlands]

I'm not sure what you mean.

[Le Petit Norman]

Originally Posted by highlands

A bit of a fallacy. Farmers don't produce everything. Even a diversified farm only produces some things. I can produce everything we need but that is a far cry from everything that we want. I do not produce olive oil or chocolate. I can substitute lard and honey or maple syrup but I enjoy variety. Our farm's primary product's pastured pork. We produce a lot of pastured pork. It pays our mortgage and all our bills. We're very good at producing pastured pork. Our land is right for that crop. Our land is totally wrong for producing wheat to make bread. I buy flour. While I can produce everything I need I don't limit myself to that.

Sorry if that went the wrong way, I always enjoy reading your post and seeing what you are achieving, I hope you'll get your slaughterhouse up and running as soon as you can. My reasoning was slightly different that producing everything. I am jus amazed when I drive past farm to not see chicken or a garden, yes a garden take times, yes chicken take feed, not all farmer produce grain. As you said your mountain is not the best suited place to grow wheat … while I am sure at one point or another the people before tried their hands at it … that being said there is a stretch between not having a simple garden, chicken and why not a pig or two , and just loading up cart at the grocery store … it just seems wrong to me … in the mean time when I go to the grocery store and see people loading pack of coke after frozen pizza … it does make me sick too, I am just probably longing for a time that does not exist anymore the one I knew as a kid when all farm had a veggie garden, a stinky pig or two (yes they were mainly raised in confine space) and 12 to 13 yo kids were driving tractor pulling a load of hay or straw at this time of the year … bout I am not yet 40 that was not that long ago ...