5th wheel living questions...yes more

[GOSKN5]

Hello all,

I know this was asked just a thread down but I have a few different questions and didn't want to hijack that thread...

My wife and I are considering buying a used 5th wheel to live in while we pay down some bills and save to build... this will be located on my parents property and near their house..

We will have access to their bathrooms, electrical etc but need our own space.

We will likely bathe there, but would like to use the toilet and sinks in the camper. What are my options with no sewer hookup? Is it possible to haul the blackwater off to a campground dump site etc? Refill the freshwater tank?

Does it make sense (is it possible? )to run the RV from a drop cord for lights etc and use propane for cooking and maybe other appliances as needed? I also have a gas generator that could run electric heat etc... we are in VA btw, so winters are generally not terrible other than a few random days....

Any other consideration? I have no RV experience so I don't even really know how they work... thanks for the help..

[ChristieAcres]

Originally Posted by GOSKN5

Hello all,

I know this was asked just a thread down but I have a few different questions and didn't want to hijack that thread...

My wife and I are considering buying a used 5th wheel to live in while we pay down some bills and save to build... this will be located on my parents property and near their house..

We will have access to their bathrooms, electrical etc but need our own space.

We will likely bathe there, but would like to use the toilet and sinks in the camper. What are my options with no sewer hookup? Is it possible to haul the blackwater off to a campground dump site etc? Refill the freshwater tank?

I will tell you below...

Does it make sense (is it possible? )to run the RV from a drop cord for lights etc and use propane for cooking and maybe other appliances as needed? I also have a gas generator that could run electric heat etc... we are in VA btw, so winters are generally not terrible other than a few random days....

We are living in a motorhome and the answer to everything is basically yes, based on how you are going to do it. You should keep your cord connections dry and protected from the elements.

Any other consideration? I have no RV experience so I don't even really know how they work... thanks for the help..

Before DH set up our motorhome, we just filled the water as needed, and dumped the septic tank as needed. Now, how we set it up?

DH hooked up the tank hose to empty into our septic tank. There is a valve that needs to be opened. He waits until the tank is full, so there is plenty of pressure, then he will release the valve. We use a pre-treatment for the septic. As for water, we now have a water hose connected directly to our motorhome, so no longer use the water pump (rely on the pressure from the incoming water). Everything will be insulated for the Winter. We will also be skirting around our motorhome, winterizing it, while we live in it.

In colder climates, you will need to take measures. I'd contact a local RV place and ask about what is needed.

In addition, I'd highly recommend you join an RV club online and locally, if there is one. They are an excellent source of information and fantastic resource for parts. Be sure and read all your manuals and study up how everything works.

[GOSKN5]

Thanks for the response... unfortunately I won't have the option of hooking into the parents septic and likely not their water. They have had a few issues with their well and pressure isn't great. I assume I can just refill the reservoir on the RV as needed. Which is not a big deal for me.

As for black water, is it possible to have a removable tank that I haul and empty at a campground or dump aite? I believe I have found online this is doable albeit a bit of a burden...

[haypoint]

Running a generator to make electricity to run electric heaters in the RV isn't feasible. Better to use the propane heater in the RV.
You don't need hooked to a water supply. Just fill a few gallon jugs for washing dishes, drinking, cooking and to rinse the toilet.

[Shoden]

Yes, you can drain your black water tank into a portable tank (http://www.amazon.com/RV-Tote-Along-.../dp/B000B655G2) and then take that to a place to dump it. Draining the black water tank will most likely be a weekly chore, so if you can just take it over to your parents' and dump it into their septic, that would be ideal. Carting it off to an RV park and possibly having to pay there would get old fast.

Also, be careful with the chemicals you use to control the odor. A former neighbor of my friends lived in a 5th wheel on their property, and when they left and put it up for sale, we considered buying the land. Walking it with our agent, we found several of the above mentioned totes abandoned in the woods next to the stream where they'd been dumping their black water, and large area of dead and bleached tree roots.

We use a product called Odorlos, which works really well, and is claimed to be non-toxic and biodegradable. Our drainage system probably isn't 100% legal, but the results are lush vegetation and big fat earthworms, not dead, bleached tree roots and poisoned soil.

As for fresh water, get a 65 gallon tank like this one: http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/stor...ge-tank-65-gal. That's what we started with before we got our 330 gallon IBC totes, although we paid quite a bit less for ours. Fill that up where ever you're getting your water, take it back to your RV, hook up a couple hoses and a transfer pump (we've got one almost identical to this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wayne-1-2...-PC4/100067909, but would like to switch to a stainless steel one, since the cast iron one requires a bit of a rinse to remove rust before each use). You'll learn to conserve water really fast, since you don't want to go through the process of filling, transporting, and pumping the water more than once per week.

Most RVs will also have a grey water tank. With our older one, that includes the water from the shower, bathroom sink, and kitchen sink. New ones may send kitchen sink water to the black water tank. Grey water can usually be safely, if not always legally, drained out into the grass or a flower bed.

For electricity, how far will you be located from your parents' house? You may want to look at installing a dedicated RV outlet from their breaker box. Older RVs used a 30 amp circuit, while newer ones usually require 50 amps. With the way our RV is positioned in our pole barn, we were able to install the 30 amp RV outlet right below the breaker box, so it was a simple and inexpensive task.

[ChristieAcres]

Originally Posted by GOSKN5

Thanks for the response... unfortunately I won't have the option of hooking into the parents septic and likely not their water. They have had a few issues with their well and pressure isn't great. I assume I can just refill the reservoir on the RV as needed. Which is not a big deal for me.

That is correct and it is wise to also store containers of water. Conserving water is necessary or you will have to constantly fill up your RV. In addition, you will also want to discuss ways to decrease the amount of water you use from your sinks. The black water is the issue, as others have posted. Below are comments regarding that.

As for black water, is it possible to have a removable tank that I haul and empty at a campground or dump aite? I believe I have found online this is doable albeit a bit of a burden...

A large tank can be purchased to hook up to your RV for black water. Septic companies empty tanks like this. That is what we would do, if we were in your situation. That way, you don't have to ever drive your RV to dump it.

I'd highly recommend you install smoke & carbon monoxide/gas detectors.

A few thoughts on water use conservation... Get plastic tubs that will fit in your sinks. If you don't have a double sink, you can just opt to get one. I use a plastic tub for my soapy dishwater (all silverware soaks in it, while I wash the rest of the dishes). The 2nd one is filled with water and used to pre-rinse the dishes. Once you are done doing dishes, use your sprayer (if you have one), to quickly do your final rinse. Get a good water container that can sit upright on your table. This should be used for your drinking water and also for brushing your teeth. I would fill up one glass of water, pour a little water on my tooth brush, brush my teeth, then gargle/rinse out my mouth, using only the sink that doesn't empty into the black water tank... Then, I'd drink some of the water and then rinse out the sink with the rest (never running the water from the RV). If you aren't showering in the RV, this should substantially decrease the amount of water you use. Then, you don't have to refill as often...

***Additional word on sinks... We were a little surprised to find out our bathroom sink drained into our black water tank! We stopped using that sink.

In the Winter, I'd stop using the RV for water completely. Instead use water out of storage containers on board. Reason? You wouldn't need to fill it up.

In your situation, we would use propane heat.

[topofmountain]

All this sounds great if your in a year around warm parts Arizona or California. But if you have to deal with freezing temps, snow etc. then you will have issues of freezing to deal with.
Running a trailer on an extension cord will work if you don't use microwaves, toasters, coffee makers, electric heaters, electric blankets/mattress pads, etc.
Is there a septic company that runs a truck to just pump out peoples sewers? Will they come once a week or so to pump you out. Then the cost of an external tank plus freezing???
You might just get a good tent. LOL
This info comes from someone who has lived in trailers for years 15+ in both warm & cold climates.
So not knowing where you are doing this leaves a lot of unknowns that could be explained.

[Forcast]

If it was me I would buy a used mobile home have it pulled up close to moms house like maybe the back door open one door to the house and use the trailer as a bedroom and use moms kitchen bathroom ect. I just dont get the cost of 5th wheel to live in in a cold area with no running water I guess if I already had one already paid for ok but not if I was having to buy one or make payments on one, old mobile homes are cheap.

[ChristieAcres]

Originally Posted by Forcast

If it was me I would buy a used mobile home have it pulled up close to moms house like maybe the back door open one door to the house and use the trailer as a bedroom and use moms kitchen bathroom ect. I just dont get the cost of 5th wheel to live in in a cold area with no running water I guess if I already had one already paid for ok but not if I was having to buy one or make payments on one, old mobile homes are cheap.

Not here, by a long shot. They are selling like hot cakes for that purpose and one in reasonable condition, an old one, will run $10K! Then, a permit fee and $$$ to move that baby.

Also, that is a zoning violation in many Counties.

As for us, we could legally live in a mobile home while we build, but it was cost prohibitive.

[ChristieAcres]

Originally Posted by topofmountain

All this sounds great if your in a year around warm parts Arizona or California. But if you have to deal with freezing temps, snow etc. then you will have issues of freezing to deal with.

We get snow and freezing temperatures. My in-laws lived for a year, including over the Winter, in this climate. We had a camper and a trailer, always winterized both. My DS lived in a 32' travel trailer on our last property in the Winter.

Running a trailer on an extension cord will work if you don't use microwaves, toasters, coffee makers, electric heaters, electric blankets/mattress pads, etc.

Agree!

Is there a septic company that runs a truck to just pump out peoples sewers? Will they come once a week or so to pump you out. Then the cost of an external tank plus freezing???

The service is typically monthly and there is a treatment to keep it from freezing. It is easiest to contact LOCALS who are living in RV's. They have all the answers. See my posted statement:

You might just get a good tent. LOL
This info comes from someone who has lived in trailers for years 15+ in both warm & cold climates.
So not knowing where you are doing this leaves a lot of unknowns that could be explained.

Very true! Although HT is a great resource, it is a huge benefit to contact the locals... We won't ask any questions about anything regarding our RV on HT. Why? My FIL, for one. Otherwise, there is nothing on this motorhome my DH can't fix, replace, or improve ...that includes the motor & transmission (Industrial Mechanic/Machinist/Welder). It is a good thing to network with others who have knowledge you lack (one of our friends is a heavy equipment operator and is very knowledgeable about foundation work). He is very familiar with local soils, topography challenges, etc... What we lack, he knows! Likewise, we have skills he doesn't.

[fireweed farm]

I didn't read other replies so sorry if this was said.
I did the 5th wheel living for a long long time.
About 3 months in I realized that unless you are actually taking it out on the road periodically, the toilet paper etc begins to cone up. Rv's sewage tanks seem to need to churn while driving, or they fill up just below the toilet like an out house.
I had a stick and pushed the cone down, and when I thought full, it actually would not dump fully since basically the was a wad of 'you know what' below toilet. Basically in my case the toilet did not work and I'd expect the same for you.

So, I highly recommend a sawdust toilet in there. To keep the footprint small try a 5 gallon pail, and I found a toilets seat called a "luggable loo" that snapped right on it, super cheap, best $15 I spent!

It's pretty rough living in both the summer heat and winter cold, or times of dampness.
Plug in oil heaters, one each in either end really helped in winter.

My main regret was not installing a little woodstove. I had considered taking the kitchen table out and turning that into a little spot to sit by fire, that would have really helped with the long winters in there and the horrendous electric bill, at least my rv was old and had a lot of heat lost. Frozen dog bowls on the floor in winter.

[GOSKN5]

We are highly adaptable and willing to work through issues that come up... I just need to know a few things to start

What would be our absolute best option for running the AC in the summer and heat in the winter? Have an electrical outlet installed? Propane? I assume just a regular drop cord plugged into the house will not provide the power needed for this correct? What is involved with getting a dedicated plug for the RV installed? Thanks for the help

[Shoden]

Originally Posted by fireweed farm

About 3 months in I realized that unless you are actually taking it out on the road periodically, the toilet paper etc begins to cone up. Rv's sewage tanks seem to need to churn while driving, or they fill up just below the toilet like an out house.

I had a stick and pushed the cone down, and when I thought full, it actually would not dump fully since basically the was a wad of 'you know what' below toilet. Basically in my case the toilet did not work and I'd expect the same for you.

We used a sawdust toilet for a few months before got the plumbing worked out and before we moved in full time. Worked okay and didn't smell, but it was nice getting back to a flushing toilet. However, when we first started using the RV's toilet, we tried being very conservative with water usage when flushing, and ended up with the dreaded pyramid of poo. I used a VERY long bladed screwdriver to work everything down into the tank, and since it was something I didn't want to repeat, we've decided using a bit more water when flushing is a good idea. Haven't had the backup problem since, and we still keep our water usage to around 300 gallons per month.

Another thing that helps is to use toilet paper than dissolves more quickly. We even did a test of a half dozen or so brands, taking a few sheets of each and putting them in jars of water to see which broke down the fastest. There are several "studies" you can find online on this on various RV forums, but we settled on the RV specific Scott brand toilet paper. It's more expensive than non-RV specific, but my wife likes it.

Since the RV won't be moved around to agitate the tank contents, a periodic cleaning with a sprayer also helps. We spray ours about once per month, which works out to about 1 out of every 4 drainings, and we just use the basic sprayer, like this one: http://www.rvpartscenter.com/Product...DID=181&CID=38. There are fancier ones, but that gets the job done, and a thorough cleaning only takes an extra 20 gallons or so of water when we're filling our fresh water tank.

What is involved with getting a dedicated plug for the RV installed?

If you're reasonably comfortable working with electricity, it's not a difficult job. If you're not, I'm not sure how much it would cost to hire an electrician. Depending on the distance from your parents' house, the biggest cost will probably be the wiring, since you'll be looking at anything from 10 to possibly even 6 gauge for a long run. For our 30 amp circuit, I used 10 gauge wire, a 120 volt 30 amp breaker, and an outdoor rated 30 amp RV electrical box (http://www.adventurerv.net/amp-power...er-p-3896.html) mounted to the wall of the pole barn. Total cost of doing myself was under $100.

For a long run, you'll either need to bury the wire or install poles to suspend it, both of which will be extra expenses. Here are some good links (30 and 50 amp) on figuring out wire sizes and other stuff for the RV outlets:

http://www.myrv.us/electric/pg/30amp_service.htm <- This, and the linked PDF guide, are what I used when I installed my connection
http://www.myrv.us/electric/pg/50amp_service.htm

[bryant]

Originally Posted by GOSKN5

Thanks for the response... unfortunately I won't have the option of hooking into the parents septic and likely not their water. They have had a few issues with their well and pressure isn't great. I assume I can just refill the reservoir on the RV as needed. Which is not a big deal for me.
The tank will probably be about 50 gallons, water pressure for most all RV's is a maximum of 40 psi.
As for black water, is it possible to have a removable tank that I haul and empty at a campground or dump aite? I believe I have found online this is doable albeit a bit of a burden...

There are portable (wheeled) blue tanks available at most all RV stores, these are usually 20 gal size with some being 30 gal, so all you will need is to hook it up to the system then have a way/ place to correctly dump the roller tank into a septic setup.
My wife and I have been living in our 32 ft. Class A for the last four years. We have a 20 ft. Holiday Ramblette up on our homestead which we are using till we move up there this fall or next spring.

[ChristieAcres]

Once you understand your challenges from LOCALS to you, they will be easier to address. We are skirting and insulating our motorhome for the coldest months. In addition all lines will be insulated. We can choose to use either propane or electric heat, as we have both. We don't have to worry about snow load... In addition, we don't have most of your challenges to deal with. Understanding and addressing specific issues/challenges, makes living in RV's much more comfortable.

[Peasant]

Originally Posted by bryant

There are portable (wheeled) blue tanks available at most all RV stores, these are usually 20 gal size with some being 30 gal, so all you will need is to hook it up to the system then have a way/ place to correctly dump the roller tank into a septic setup.
My wife and I have been living in our 32 ft. Class A for the last four years. We have a 20 ft. Holiday Ramblette up on our homestead which we are using till we move up there this fall or next spring.

I used a Blue Boy for about a year. Pretty awful. Gross to fill up, gross to empty, hard to lift into back of truck, and nearest dump station was 20+ miles away (an RV park 5 miles away wouldn't accept it). Major hassle.

I've since built an outhouse with a compost toilet. VASTLY superior to the Blue Boy, plus I don't have to use the RV toilet, which I never liked. I'll probably end up permanently removing the RV toilet when I rebuild the bathroom floor.

As for the OP's electricity question, I ran an extension cord (100' I think) at my last spot, where I lived for 3 years. The AC and small electric space heater pretty much maxed it out, when it was really hot out I did trip a breaker on occasion. Aside from that I never had an issue. It ran my RV's furnace blower just fine.

For heat, consider propane space heaters. That's what I switched to when my RV furnace died, I like them better. Much quieter, no electricity required, and they use a lot less propane. I have an Olympian Wave 3 and a Mr Heater Big Buddy. Both are safe for indoor use as long as you keep a couple windows cracked.

[Bellyman]

Interestingly, we are in a pretty similar situation with our rv right now. We're parked next door to my parents house and hook into their electricity.

We put in a 50 amp plug (same thing as an electric range outlet) on the back of his garage which provides us with enough electricity to live fairly comfortably. We don't have a true 50 amps available but we are able to run an air conditioner if we need to, or our dryer or our microwave. But we really don't run those things all at the same time, on purpose. It's not a big sacrifice.

For fresh water, we fill our onboard tank (I think it's about 50 gallons) with a hose from one of their outside spigots. It requires about 100 feet of hose but we have it. It gets a little old as we're not able to leave the hose out, but it's not difficult. We only use that water to fill our tank and only run our water off of our onboard water pump. It is a higher pressure than the house water is and our pump works quite well.

To dump gray water, some have been known to just let it run. I won't comment on whether that's appropriate or not. There used to be a lot of people that would let their wash water run down the road and that was perfectly all right then. Some would think it's all right now. Again, no comment yea or nay here, I'll let that for someone else to judge.

To get rid of our black tank contents, ours gets pumped via a macerator pump and 200 feet of 3/4" garden hose to my parents' septic tank. It's the same place their waste water and toilet water go to, solids and all. When I dump it, I will have a full gray water tank waiting for when the black tank has emptied so that I can "rinse" the hose with something that hasn't gone down the toilet. In between the black and gray tank dump, though, I do have an automatic tank rinse device that I just hook the garden hose up to and it will spray the inside of the black tank to rinse it out. I'll let that rinse for a few minutes before I close the black tank and proceed to dump the gray. It does a good job of keeping it clean. And no, I have never had any trouble with solids building up in the tank and no, I don't move that often. Using enough water is helpful and using a toilet paper that dissolves easily is also helpful.

In cases where you can't get to a septic system, there might be a sewer cleanout where you could dump your waste water, both gray and black. There is usually someplace to access a place to dump, if not a septic system, a sewer cleanout. If neither of them, you could run the hose from your macerator pump down one of the toilets in the house and empty your tanks that way. Not one of the ways I'd like to do it but potentially doable if there really is no other option.

And then there is the Blue Boy to haul it away if you have to. That is definitely a lot of work.

Good luck!