Arsenic in water supply - Maine

DSBlack · #1 08/02/14, 06:37 PM

So I'm in the process of purchasing a property with the intention to farm it, but there's a hiccough - arsenic. Our water supply tested at 38.5 ug/L which is nearly 400% of the maximum exposure guideline and EPA maximum contamination level of 10.0 ug/L. Obviously, this is going to require an arsenic filter of some sort. Anyone have one of these they can give their opinion on? What ballpark price point am I looking at for installation and maintenance? Am I going to need a filter for the livestock pump? I feel like that could become extremely costly...

TedH71 · #2 08/02/14, 09:26 PM

I would run far away from that property as soon as possible.

Harry Chickpea · #3 08/02/14, 09:44 PM

I agree that it doesn't make sense to buy into a continuing problem.

ChristieAcres · #4 08/03/14, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSBlack

So I'm in the process of purchasing a property with the intention to farm it, but there's a hiccough - arsenic. Our water supply tested at 38.5 ug/L which is nearly 400% of the maximum exposure guideline and EPA maximum contamination level of 10.0 ug/L. Obviously, this is going to require an arsenic filter of some sort. Anyone have one of these they can give their opinion on? What ballpark price point am I looking at for installation and maintenance? Am I going to need a filter for the livestock pump? I feel like that could become extremely costly...

Once you do some research, I think you will heed the advice to

Here is info on the treatment via the Oregon Health Authority, expensive and is a slow process... You'd need multiple systems for livestock watering...

http://public.health.oregon.gov/Heal...nicremoval.pdf

As I considered #1 on our listed of criteria as pure water? No way, would I consider that property! I'd keep looking!

DSBlack · #5 08/03/14, 01:58 AM

That's what I was afraid of. A real shame because this was an amazing property. Thanks for the confirmation.

littlebitfarm · #6 08/03/14, 06:06 AM

Could you put in a cistern and use rainwater instead?

wogglebug · #7 08/03/14, 12:31 PM

Wherever you don't remove the arsenic, there the arsenic will be. If you take it out of people water, it will be in livestock water, if you take it out there it will be in garden water and garden produce. I'm a big fan of using stored rainwater, but it can't do the whole job if you want any degree of self-reliance. There's even some chance that there'll be enough arsenic in your soil to be unhealthy too.

Any offer you made must have been contingent on successful inspection. It failed. Were they legally obligated to reveal this to you in advance? Some places, they'd be on the hook for an inspection they knew would fail. In any case, RUN AWAY!

littlebitfarm · #8 08/03/14, 01:59 PM

Given reasonable storage size, conservation, and roof size, rain water is a very viable option. I have run my farm for 22 years on rainfall and according to a quick google search Maine gets more rain than Illinois. You just have to be able to catch and store the rain as it comes. My 1300 sq ft roof and 8,000 tank does nicely for my livestock and myself.

Need more water, create more storage. I have plenty of untapped roofs that could have gutters run to storage.

ET1 SS · #9 08/03/14, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlebitfarm

Could you put in a cistern and use rainwater instead?

Rain gutters become an issue when they freeze, the ice is heavy and tends to rip them down off the structure.

Water stored in containers expands. I have stored water in 55-gallon drums, they rip the seams open in winter.

I know one farm that has an above-grade water tank inside an insulated pole barn. The entire South side is a passive solar heating system to keep the tank inside above freezing.

I farm in the Southern half of Maine [about 20 miles North of Bangor], around here frost goes 4' below grade. So any underground cistern needs to have it's top, below that level.

On my land, we have multiple aquifers at different depths. A 2' hole will fill with 1' of water in half a day. When the contractor was digging out for our basement and foundation, he hit an aquifer. Our basement sump is an artesian spring.

There are layers of gravel that bare water at different depths also. 'Sand-point' wells do okay here too. Pound pipe into the ground 6' to 8', and you can count on having water.

When they sink well casing they are very concerned about frost lifting the casing. So they dig deep to find bedrock to set in the casing into to hold it. My well casing rests on rock at 200'. Though it's water comes up to 40'.

If there is arsenic at one depth, there might not be arsenic at other depths.

Jim-mi · #10 08/03/14, 03:24 PM

Perhaps arsenic is the main reason the property is for sale.
You can check with local well drillers about the different levels you would need to go too avoid the problem
Of course a new well will be anything but cheap..........

That is a big red flag that you can walk away from NOW............

Vosey · #11 08/03/14, 03:31 PM

Arsenic is a common problem in Maine and parts of Oregon. Don't give up yet if the property is perfect, look into the cost of treating it or putting in new systems and make that part of the deal.

My understanding is that it can be spotty, you can put in other wells and have no issue. But that's my memory from looking at houses many years ago in Maine.

littlebitfarm · #12 08/03/14, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET1 SS

Rain gutters become an issue when they freeze, the ice is heavy and tends to rip them down off the structure.

Water stored in containers expands. I have stored water in 55-gallon drums, they rip the seams open in winter.

I know one farm that has an above-grade water tank inside an insulated pole barn. The entire South side is a passive solar heating system to keep the tank inside above freezing.

I farm in the Southern half of Maine [about 20 miles North of Bangor], around here frost goes 4' below grade. So any underground cistern needs to have it's top, below that level.

Seems like in Maine it would only make sense to have buried water storage. Pour a concrete tank, with enough storage, and put a green house on top if you are worried about freezing. Or just add some insulation to the top of the tank.

I've never been in Maine. Do have lots of Illinois experience. My gutters have never fallen off. My parents gutters have never fallen off. My relatives gutters have never fallen off. Don't remember any of the neighbors gutters falling off. Keep them clean and properly sloped and they will last a long time.

ET1 SS · #13 08/03/14, 07:24 PM

Once you have 3 to 4 foot of snow on your roof, and icicles 4 foot long hanging from the eaves, it is a bit difficult to clean out the gutters.

Concrete tanks set in the ground in this region require strapping and weights to keep them from heaving up.

arabian knight · #14 08/03/14, 07:39 PM

Yes different weather conditions around the country and being n a Maine it is a lot worse then in other places. And how much rain a person gets in anyone area means something also. Maybe not enough Liquid Water falls to collet a bunch, at least enough to rub a place on.
Again not all places are the same. What works one place, won't work some other places.

fishhead · #15 08/04/14, 06:52 AM

I would calculate my water needs and then find out how much a treatment system would cost for that amount. Until you do that you are only speculating.

Arsenic can be safely removed so it shouldn't be a deal breaker. You only have to treat the water used for drinking, cooking and doing the dishes.

Also, underground rainwater storage for livestock and garden watering would reduce your water treatment demand and cost. It wouldn't have to be buried that deep if you covered it with 4" of foam board before burying it with dirt to insulate the top.

You can always take the rain gutter down in the fall. I can pop mine off or on in less than an hour.

tab · #16 08/04/14, 08:01 AM

I guess I would want to know WHERE the contamination was coming from before I made a firm decision.

CJBegins · #17 08/04/14, 02:43 PM

I took care of a man that succumbed to arsenic poisoning. It was a really painful and slow death. Supposedly, he was exposed from the environment. I personally, strongly believe the crazy wife was poisoning him. His levels kept rising the entire time he was in the hospital, the wife was always bringing food and beverages to him until we caught on....

slingshot · #18 08/04/14, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlebitfarm

Seems like in Maine it would only make sense to have buried water storage. Pour a concrete tank, with enough storage, and put a green house on top if you are worried about freezing. Or just add some insulation to the top of the tank.

I've never been in Maine. Do have lots of Illinois experience. My gutters have never fallen off. My parents gutters have never fallen off. My relatives gutters have never fallen off. Don't remember any of the neighbors gutters falling off. Keep them clean and properly sloped and they will last a long time.

Illinois is not Maine.... Not even close

I had to remove the gutters from my house because of the ice dams they created. The last winter we lived in Maine we had 160" of snow, it literally snowed every day.

I don't think I would risk that amount of arsenic, especially if your gonna farm

da_wanderer · #19 08/04/14, 05:31 PM

Water is a requirement to make a property "perfect".

You need to know how much a filtration system costs to install and maintain. As someone else already mentioned, you could be better off building a serious rain catchment system or even surface ponds that you then filter.

You really do need to know where the arsenic is located. Is it an underground deposit or surface contamination from an old apple orchard.

fishhead · #20 08/05/14, 06:35 AM

This area has spotty arsenic in wells. One well at the same depth as surrounding wells has many times the limit and others within 1/4 mile don't.

It might be possible to drill to a different aquifer and avoid the arsenic.

I forgot to take my gutters off last fall and they were solid ice all winter with no problems. It wasn't the first time.