What changed with canning?

[Ziptie]

So, some acquaintances and myself like to live on the edge. I have a couple friends who cans meat in the the oven, another that hot water baths green beans, and I am currently pressure canning yellow squash(even been know to can banana puree).

So my question is at one time all this was peferclly acceptable and given the powers that be blessing on the above processing way (well except maybe not the banana).

So, what changed? We have cleaner water (a probably more of it) then back then. I assuming our equipment is better.

Did the government not really test the stuff very well before?liability?better testing equipment? or would rather have us to buy from a big company that has the equipment to run tests on all the large batches? People died from certain things and then that was crossed off the list as bad? Ideas?

[Cyngbaeld]

Botulism cannot be detected by smell or taste. The spores are not effectively killed at the temps of waterbath or oven canning. Once they are sealed into an oxygen poor environment they will start reproducing. They are not always present in the food when it is canned so most of the time the old methods did not cause sickness. However, entire families have died from botulism, though it is still rare, it happens. Why take a chance? If you are going to all the work of preparing the food, buying jars and lids and heating up a huge pan of water or the oven, it really is not any more trouble or work, nor does it take more fuel, to use a pressure canner and do it at the recommended times and pressures. You can buy used canners for a reasonable price if you cannot afford a new one.

[gunsmithgirl]

I am not sure what was tested or the testing methods. I can tell you when I moved out on my own and got a ball blue book I couldn't find yellow squash listed so a quick google search said that it was not "recommended safe" to can. Now my granny has canned it for years, so I called her and have canned it every since.... I think some things are just paranoia. But I do prefer pressure canning over other methods and will not water bath something that needs to be pressure canned. Oven canning I have only used for dehydrated goods to get a seal on a jar... wouldn't really trust it with meat or other uses. If you have a pressure canner why not use it on things that call for it?

[HandyDandyAcres]

I thought I had read this somewhere so I did a quick search and the CDC confirmed my thinking. Food and beverage can be decontaminated from botulinum by heating to 185* F for 5 minutes. They recommend boiling home canned food for 10 minutes to ensure safety.


HDAcres

[Use Less]

What happened was increased understanding of what will grow in what seem to be safe, sealed jars. With mushy stuff like squash it's difficult to get all the air out, and a uniform temp all through. Same thing with paraffin-sealing for preserves: just isn't recommended any more. I am happy to freeze some things like cooked squash. That stuff keeps for months/years. For a few things, notably tomatoes, the acid content is greatly reduced from when I was a girl, even with heirloom varieties. Those round tomatoes Mom canned that gave me a rash on my arms as I peeled and bit the tongue? long gone.

[Ziptie]

I do pressure can meat and beans. I guess what I was wondering is what testing was done? Why did the testing say it was ok for canning in the oven and hot water bath for green beans but then it wasn't?

Who did the testing? Where are the results? What where the results?

People are still canning with the oven method and wax? Have their been any deaths from either of these methods?

Just pondering over stuff like that.

Tomato acidity changing is understandable changing the canning method. What about meat did that change some how also?

[Fourthistles]

The National Center for Home Food Preservation (I think its part of the Dept. of agriculture) tests and has a great website for information. Just because people you know followed certain practices and didn't die doesn't mean it's a good idea. It's like playing Russian roulette with food; you may get away with it for a long time but it only takes one time of eating a minute amount of botulism toxin to be fatal. Many people also get away with driving 90 mph on the highway but when they have accidents they are usually disastrous. FYI decades ago people talked about having"summer complaint" without knowing what it was. It was food poisening.

[Molly Mckee]

I don't believe that oven canning was ever a recommended method of canning. I know my grandmother , as well as all the older women I knew, never used it and said it was not safe.

[kasilofhome]

Well it is best to listen and locally ask to learn who is oven canning then have folks avoid what they bring to potlucks.

[Spamela]

I thought tomatos were safe to oven can? Is that true?

[my3boys]

Oven canning is not safe for anything. Placing jars in the dry heat of the oven can cause the glass to crack. The Jarden Company that manufactures most the of the canning jars in the country says it is not safe to heat jars in the dry heat of the oven.

Dry heat is also not comparable to the moist heat of a boiling water bath. The coldest part of the jar will not heat adequately.

Lastly, oven heat will not increase the temperature inside the jar above boiling to be adequate to destroy botulism spores in low acid foods. These should of course always be pressure canned.

Here is a link to the Let's Preserve fact sheets. They email them to you May through Oct I think it is:

www.extension.psu.edu/food/preservation

They have short excerpts on the site but you can have them send you the whole newsletter by signing up for the bi-monthly email. If you have trouble, I can send you the link. It's a very informative 6 page publication.

[wy_white_wolf]

The same thing that has happened with everything else. Think about cars. 50 years ago they didn't have seatbelts. Can you drive without wearing them today? yes. Is it smart? no.

WWW

[jwal10]

The problem today is people want someone to tell them it is safe. No one will IF there is any possibility that someone would get sick, even if the person was the problem, in how they did it. People will just sue. We do many things that are not PC here. We have old jars, never had one break oven canning. No one has ever gotten sick. But now days it does not take much for some people to get sick. We can and preserve many things the same as my great grandmother and grandmother did. We crock meats, can tomatoes and string beans. We do can plain, proven old varieties that have been canned for decades without problems, not mixed things that can be iffy. We still use glass dome lids with rubbers, the old zinc lids and the milk glass insert lids. The pressure canner is almost 100 years old. We do have the gauge tested yearly....James

[sammyd]

Ever since I can remember (1969) my folks have put food by and they have never used the oven for canning or been without a pressure canner.

[michiganfarmer]

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09305.html

"Botulism can be controlled if consumers are aware of the dangers and take steps to prevent spoilage in home-canned and home-cooked foods. Here are some important tips to remember:

"Process all home-canned meats and vegetables, with the possible exception of tomatoes, in a steam pressure canner at 240 degrees F for the time recommended in a current USDA research-based publication"

[michiganfarmer]

I also just read on the CDC website that 185 degree F kills botulism. I wonder why caniing at 240 F is reccommended.

I Pressure can ALL low acid foods above 240 F.

[michiganfarmer]

I found it. Water bath canning kills the botilism bacteria, but not the spores. Only temps above 240 F will kill the spores

[Ziptie]

I guess I would like to see their test data sheets. I read some place that the reason yellow squash and such (not taking puree but chunks) are no longer ok to can is that National Center for Home Food Preservation lost the data for the squash and now is just saying it is no longer ok.

The only info I found on their web site was an article on the cases of botulism for a 10 year period. It came to around 200 cases over those ten years and about half was from home canned stuff.

[unregistered353870]

I don't know anything about what studies have been done to say certain things are safe or not safe, but here's the deal: there is no such thing as 100% safe. There is less safe and more safe. The current recommendations are more safe. Do what you want. You probably won't die. But you might.

[Molly Mckee]

Squash is not acidic.