UTV / Side by Side / ATV in the garden

[FutureFarm]

I've been expanding my garden each year, but I'm rapidly outgrowing a walk behind tiller as my primary soil preparation tool. I need more horsepower. I need more working width. I don't really need a big tractor like the big time farmers. I don't have enough space in my barn, field, or budget to justify one.

So I've been looking at subcompact tractors and UTVs. The plan is to grow the garden from the .5 it is now to about 2 over the next 5 years. According to John Deere's website, the beefiest gator has more torque than the 1026r. The gator is wider and used ones are going pretty cheap where I am.

Can a gator with a "utv hitchworks" 3PH, or a "quadivator" really do the same work as a subcompact? I know I'd be losing a PTO and possibly a FEL, but I'm not sure I'd miss the FEL. With a subcompact I might use a posthole digger and maybe a rough cut mower, but I'm not sure if they're necessary for my situation.

Would a subcompact be the appropriate platform for 2 acres?

[Eagle1]

Once you have a FEL you'll wonder how you ever did ANYTHING without it. The most useful tool I own and sees more use than anything else.

[sammyd]

I think you would get better results from a pto operated tiller behind a tractor vs a self powered one behind a gator.
I can't see where I would ever pick something other than a tractor to do tractor work.

[Molly Mckee]

We have both a Polaris Ranger and a small Kubota tractor. It would be pretty hard to use the Ranger in the garden, it takes more room to turn. The tractor is made to do farm work, the UTV's are helpful but dual purpose.

[LisaInN.Idaho]

We have a JD Gator and I love it to death...nothing better for stall cleaning! But we also have a Kubota compact tractor to do many other things with. I'd hate to be without either of them.

[FutureFarm]

So most of you believe that the FEL and PTO outweigh the benefits of higher ground clearance and more space between the tires?
Do most of you believe that a 1026 or BX2670 could handle 2 acres? It would need to be able to prepare the seedbed, hill potatoes, dig potatoes, disk in the residue, and move the yield.

[Gravytrain]

Originally Posted by FutureFarm

So most of you believe that the FEL and PTO outweigh the benefits of higher ground clearance and more space between the tires?
Do most of you believe that a 1026 or BX2670 could handle 2 acres? It would need to be able to prepare the seedbed, hill potatoes, dig potatoes, disk in the residue, and move the yield.

I HIGHLY recommend you do not get a subcompact to do jobs that would be better done with a comparably powered compact tractor. The prices of new compacts are close to those of the subcompacts.

Used compacts prices are higher than subs. Compacts hold their used prices much better because a lot of the time people that buy subcompacts realize they don't have enough tractor to do what they want, so they dump them and upgrade. The markets are flooded with subcompacts that nobody wants.

You may be able to get the job done with a sub, but eventually you'll want a more capable tractor and you'll be stuck trying to sell a tractor without a lot of demand for it. The only downside of a compact is a bit larger footprint.

UTVs and ATVs are really handy to have around the farm or homestead...however, they are much farther down the list of "must haves" than a capable tractor is (which IMO ranks at #1). If I had to choose between a UTV or a subcompact tractor, I'd pick the subcompact...and you know how I feel about those.

Look at Kubota B2620s or B2650s, or some older B series tractors. I have an 8 year old B7800 that is incredible...I use it every day.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by FutureFarm

So most of you believe that the FEL and PTO outweigh the benefits of higher ground clearance and more space between the tires?
Do most of you believe that a 1026 or BX2670 could handle 2 acres? It would need to be able to prepare the seedbed, hill potatoes, dig potatoes, disk in the residue, and move the yield.

I have a compact 27hp tractor, a Polaris Ranger, and a handful of big ag tractors.

The ATV/utv is a very handy machine for moving and hauling stuff and people. Picking rocks, etc. didnt really need one, but would I ever be lost without it, after having it on my few 100 acre farm now I need it! But it is a useless, poor thing for trying to do any ground work. They are for hauling stuff, not working ground. Their tranny and setup is not designed for the goofy cobbled tillers and mowers and so forth you see out there. Do not buy one for that type of work.

Subcompact tractors are generally under 25 hp, and have a goofy miniature 3pt hitch on them that will fit on a regular implement, but does not work very well with a regular 3pt implement. They are tiny and tippy and under powered. Sure they beat a hoe and a shovel, but they are just really kind of a toy, you need to compromise so very much, and end up paying more for special 3pt equipment that fits those short low-lift three point arms......

I would look for one of 2 things:

If you are handy with a bit of mechanical work, gas engine tune ups and such, I would look for a 1955-1970 gas engined small farm tractor. These have lots of parts, lots of support, are a great value, won't lose or depreciate any, work well, and if you get one with live pto and 5 or more speeds it will do everything you want. Be careful buying one too old, they don't have power steering or live pto and so forth, you need to shop some. Can find for $2000 and up, if you don't like you can always sell for what you paid for it. A loader will add $1000 to the cost, and you will want a loader once you realize what they do for you. These 40-60 year old tractors just keep going, but of course you need to repair brakes, and fuss with the points and tune up now and then, they have seen a lot of work....

If you prefer just having the thing work, and not much maintinence to worry about, look for a 25-35 hp compact tractor, diesel, 4wd (these buggers are light weight so you need 4wd on the compacts or sub compacts - don't need it on the heavier old farm tractors), should cost $5000 or so. Can be 10-20 years old, these things are built tough. If you don't like, again sell for what you paid for it. Kubota, JD, ford/New Holland are all good brands. Yanmar and a few other Korean and Indian brands also are pretty good. Stay away from the China tractors. A loader again might add $1000 to the cost, but it will be the most used feature of any tractor you buy, I -promise- you the loader will be the most essential thing you get!

You will see a lot of sub compacts out there. That is because they are just a little too small, and that miniaturized three point hitch they have just doesn't work well with back blades, post hole diggers, and so forth. The geometry is all wrong, you end up having to buy rare specially designed implements mostly.

You will fall in love with a compact tractor with a loader on it. You will use it every day. It will do everything you want, and many things you haven't thought of yet.

A subcompact will help you out, and do work for you, but it will be a compromise. They just aren't quite all that.

A utv/ATV is a really neat and useful machine for a lot of tasks, but not really for any of the ones you mentioned, it would be a real struggle to make it work at any of that stuff.

If you have not gotten the message yet:

Get a little bigger compact tractor, not a sub compact. (Or an older small ag tractor like an Olliver 550, Ford 660 or 860, etc if you are a little bit mechanical minded.)

Get a loader. Don't even think about this, just get one with a loader.

You will never ever regret those. Ever.

I hope I'm not being too subtle......

Paul

[interceptor]

Rule of thumb: Figure out what size tractor you need, then buy a bigger one.

[Dixie Bee Acres]

IMO, a Ford 8n or comparable tractor would do everything you could need. $1800-$3000

[rambler]

The Ford N series or comparable are really old, kinda like the sub compact.... Will get some work done for you, but not nearly as good.

The N series does not have live hydraulics, nor live pto, nor a position 3pt hitch, nor power steering. Only have 4 gears so limited speed selections.

All together, this makes them not fun or easy to use with snow blowers, tillers, balers, etc.

They work, there are thousands out there, they are cute, your ancestors probably farmed with one, they seem to hold their value. So I'm not against them.

But they do have some limitations.

Paul

[Dixie Bee Acres]

An N doesn't have hydraulics?????

You sure bout that?

I don't own one yet, but without hydraulics, how do you operate the FEL that you can mount?

[Dixie Bee Acres]

http://www.livinghistoryfarm.org/far...ines_0204.html

[sammyd]

the hyds are provided by a separate pump usually mounted in the front. From the factory the only hyds they had was for the 3 pt hitch. A loader on an N series Ford is at best a sad joke. Yes there are a lot of them out there but they are hard to steer when loaded and don't have much capacity.
I don't have much use for the N series Fords at all. Have run an 8N and even the big powerhouse NAA. Useless for anything more than raking hay or perhaps playing in the yard. They also have a very narrow range of gears and are know to be too fast to run a 3 pt tiller properly.
If you want Ford you'd be better served starting a little newer and looking at an 801 or something in that range.
But personally I dislike straddling that hot tranny with the fan blowing hot air back on me for hours while trying to get anything done.

We started with only 2 acres and there was never a question about what sort of tractor to get. Went right towards a regular farm tractor. Even now we use an 85 HP tractor and a 65 HP tractor to take care of the original "back acre". We plow disc cut hay and rake and bale out back with the same equipment we use on bigger fields and always have plenty of room to operate.
http://sefsufficient.com/drill/2013/baling2.JPG
Do not limit yourself thinking you need something small just because you have a smaller area.

[Dixie Bee Acres]

Sammy, I am asking because I have been thinking on getting an 8n, and the are about the right price range, will they not run a bushhog, or a PTO powered tiller?
And I understand the lack of power steering makes them a chore to steer with a good load in a front end loader, but the old man down the road from me uses one to clean up his feedlot and uses it to fill his manure spreader.

[Molly Mckee]

We used an 8N years ago, and found that was not very stable. Put a load in the bucket and raise it --the front goes up with the bucket. There are plenty of better tractors you can buy in the same price range. Many people buy them because Grandpa had one, or because they have been promoted by city farmers. They are usually overpriced for the tractor that they are.

[FutureFarm]

There are a few market gardens near where I grew up that still use 70's garden tractors. Do I really need a 35 hp, wider turning radius, compaction causing modern machine to do what people are doing with 12 hp lawnmowers? It just seems like a bit of overkill. But I trust your experience more than my limited knowledge.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by Dixie Bee Acres

An N doesn't have hydraulics?????

You sure bout that?

I don't own one yet, but without hydraulics, how do you operate the FEL that you can mount?

An N has hydraulics. It is not -live- hydraulics.

That means every time you push the clutch in, the hydraulics stop working.

Not as fun to use - every time you stop moving push in the clutch, your tiller, mower, 3pt, etc also stops moving. Makes it awkward.

Most loaders end up using a front driven, extra hyd pump to get around this. Not the tractor pump.

Same applies to the pto - every time you push in the clutch the umplement stops - so you can't let a slug of hay or snow clear out of a baler or snow blower. Push in the clutch to stop moving, and the machine you are using also stops. Makes the slug worse, not better....

I moved a lot of manure with a IHC H tractor and loader on it, about the same hp as an 8N, no live pto, no live hydraulics, no power steering. It most certainly can be done, and it brats a pitch fork by a mile!

But..... It isn't the best tool for the job, either......

Paul

[rambler]

Originally Posted by FutureFarm

There are a few market gardens near where I grew up that still use 70's garden tractors. Do I really need a 35 hp, wider turning radius, compaction causing modern machine to do what people are doing with 12 hp lawnmowers? It just seems like a bit of overkill. But I trust your experience more than my limited knowledge.

You would do real well with a 25 or so hp smallest compact tractor out there.

For me its more about that silly sub compact 3pt hitch they put on the sub compacts - it just doesn't handle implements properly, even tho you can back up and hook thrm up. Pto shafts are wrong, lift height is wrong, the geometry of the top link length is wrong....

But if I tell you a compact tractor at 25 hp or even less would work, you will hear - go ahead and get the tiniest sub compact out there, because hp is hp, doesn't matter....



So, I have to impress upon you that a little bigger than you are thinking will really be worthwhile getting.

I used my brother in laws little 16 hp Kubota, 7100 I think the model was, for a couple years, I did big boy chores with it like pulling a side rake raking hay, and digging post holes.

It was neat and cute and worked for stuff.

But then, I had a lot of other tractors to choose from when I needed. Like my 27 hp New Holland 1720 with loader.

I could do all the chores I want to do with the 1720.

There is a lot of stuff I couldn't do with the little Jubota.

You don't need a monster, but think a tad bigger is all. You can idle back a too big tractor and life is good, job is easy on the tractor.

You can't get a job done when the tractor is too small to do it. And there you sit.

Paul

[logbuilder]

Originally Posted by Dixie Bee Acres

IMO, a Ford 8n or comparable tractor would do everything you could need. $1800-$3000

Sorry, but nope. The Ford N series tractors were too fast for tilling even in their lowest gear.