Deciding on Miniature Livestock

[CarolinaHobby]

Hello there! My husband and I purchased a house with a near three-acre plot of land, including pasture and brush. I grew up with livestock but hubby hasn't had but maybe a goldfish LOL. Currently we have a dog and two kitties but I am dying for some farm animals!

We have definitely decided on getting a Nigerian Dwarf doe/doeling in the spring. I am highly interested in making chevre, butter, buttermilk, and possibly soap eventually! I would like to start out with a kid so that we can build some sort of relationship before I just start pulling on her teats .

I do realize what sort of fencing is required; I used to have pygmy goats and gosh, they are mean to a fence! This is why we are planning so far in advance on what we want, etc.

My main question, for now at least, is what sort of sheep would be a suitable companion? I have done tons of research on the copper issue, but I am mainly worried about a sheep, even a Babydoll, being a bit of a bully to the doe. It would be a wethered ram lamb and they would be brought home at the same time. It just seems that even a Babydoll wether would outweight the doe by a good bit, not to mention the fact I would have to shear him yearly. =/

We have looked at Katahdins and other hair sheep breeds as well, but they are even bigger. I don't want anything that is going to bully the goat, but I have indeed always wanted a sheepy. =/ Any advice here? I appreciate it so much.

Also, any additional advice, being about goat or sheep breeds or anything is always welcomed! I really want to go about this the right way and not jump in over my head...hence why I'm not buying a doe in milk or pregnant/with kids!

IF it makes any difference at all, I am a rather short lady and really don't want to jump into getting anything that can push me around. We have no children, nor will we for at least five years, and I doubt hubby will be doing much besides petting the farm beasties and dealing with my chevre on the counters!

[CarolinaHobby]

ALSO. I am indeed planning on acquiring a LGD when I bring the livestock home, as well as having some medium-sized hens. I don't want anything that can hurt the dog OR the chickens.

In my heart of hearts, it seems like I should just get a Nigeri doeling and a Nigeri wether for her company. But that totally dashes the sheepy dreams. For goodness sake, I just went to Ireland and fell even more in love with the sheepies! =(

[Kasota]

Why not get two doelings?

[CarolinaHobby]

...I'm not even going to lie and say I even thought about doing that.

Why would it be better to get two doelings, in your opinion?

I suppose that the main reason I hadn't thought of getting two is because I don't want to keep any of the kids they would have after being bred and the farm animal market isn't the absolute best around here and I am highly worried hubby won't like the milk/cheese. He absolutely hates even the smell of chevre. I've tried explaining about how it is made/handled...but he is hard to impress unless he has a good example of something in front of him. But really...hm. Getting two really isn't a bad idea.

[Maura]

Goats and sheep are herd animals. They feel safer in a group. You need three to make a flock. I suggest you get three pregnant does from someone who has gentled their girls. You are not going to get milk if there are no kids. If you don’t want the kids you can sell them or butcher them.

[Kasota]

Why would it be better to get two doelings, in your opinion?

If you are getting a wether just to keep your doe company you will be feeding and caring for a pet. There is nothing wrong with that. I would personally rather have a second doe that I could breed. Unless, of course, it was a fiber critter that I was keeping because he had such awesome fiber that he was worth spending the time and money to keep for that purpose. That topic is a whole other kettle of fish.

Goats are herd animals. They do like to have another goat around. I think they are healthier and happier with another goat around. As you mentioned, sheep and goats have different mineral needs. Sheep cannot tolerate the amount of copper that goats require, so you would have to be very careful about the minerals and offer that to them separately, which could be a pain.

I agree with Maura - getting some does that are already used to being handled, milked, etc is a good plan.

Start slow. It's easy to fill up a pasture or a barn...one of this...one of that. Believe me, I've been there. I once brought home a pony simply because I always wanted a pony. I had no good reason to get her other than I simply wanted her and thought she looked really cute. However, often the reality of critters is a lot different than what we envision and if your husband isn't really familiar with the work involved he might be overwhelmed if you toss too much into the mix too soon. Plus, there is nothing saying you can't add more things later. A few sheep. Or a pony.

[CarolinaHobby]

Hmmm. I am honestly just nervous about getting a pregnant doe, let alone three! It has been a while since I lived on a farm, no matter how small, and we never ever milked our pygmy nor even bottlefed her kids when she birthed. I really don't want to get in over my head and get turned off to the whole idea. Agreed about the having to have kids to get milk though. We would definitely be selling them; as much of a softy as I am, hubby is worse!

I had thought about getting a momma doe with her baby(ies) however. I have noticed they are sometimes sold that way. I suppose that would be the easiest way, if she had been gentled and milked before since I am such a novice to it!

Haha, I see that you like fiber goats. =D I do believe that getting a sheep and goat to live together would be a pain at feeding time. I do believe I should, and will, be getting goats only. At least for now! We already have plans to fence off the pasture and split it to make rotational pastures. I hadn't thought about it overwhelming the husband but that's a wonderful point. We could indeed always add later. :P Thank you so much Kasota. Seems we will be getting two doelings/two does/doe with kids in the spring and some chickens.

[Kasota]

CarolinaHobby, good plan!

I wouldn't worry so much about getting an experienced bred doe. Having does that have been there done that in terms of having kids, being milked, etc is a wonderful way to get your feet wet. When I first got into sheep I bought a small flock of 10 bred ewes. They had all had lambs before and, frankly, they knew more about it than I did. They were wonderful teachers!

BTW, welcome to HT! If you are into fiber and fiber creations don't forget to hop over to the fiber forum! But be warned...we are enablers.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Ditto. Experienced doe and doeling. You need at least one of you to know the routine!!!

Also, if you want to do all those things with milk, I'd recommend a mini breed rather than a Nigerian Dwarf. Mini-LaMancha, Mini-Alpine, Mini-almost anything. Two of them in milk would be good.

Nigerian Dwarf goats are wonderful, but you won't have enough milk for all your projects.

Homemade chevre doesn't smell like store bought. MUCH nicer.

Also, research diseases. It is absolutely ESSENTIAL that you buy stock that has been tested for CAE and is free from CL abscesses.

It is also essential that you shop for milkability. So many Nigerian Dwarf goats are bred for cuteness and color that milkability has been de-emphasized. You need good teats!

[Callieslamb]

Whatever you decide on, test them out first. Buy from someone that will let you milk the doe. If she's already been milked, she will be tame- generally. Some people will sell you a kicker. All the D. Nigerians i have seen have teeny, tiny, little teats. I'd not envy you the job of milking one. If you are milking the goat, you will have to feed the kids yourself so you will have the milk to use.

As for sheep, look at shetlands for finnsheep. They are smaller sheep with beautiful fleeces. For us down in the fiber forum, having to shear a sheep is not a bad thing. If well cared for, fleeces are an income stream if you don't use them yourself.

If you have good fences on 3 acres, I doubt a guardian dog will be necessary. You can still have a dog.....but 3 acres might not be enough for a guardian to want to stay home.

[NCGarden]

As a short woman with BIG sheep, I'd go with a Shetland or Finn. Both have excellent fleeces and are quite companionable. You may want to find a Shetland without horns, however. And as long as you are looking for miniatures, you might look at the miniature Jerseys!!

[Alice In TX/MO]

TOTALLY agree with what CalliesLamb said.

Also, three acres feels big at first. Start slowly with the livestock, or you will overfill your land.

[CarolinaHobby]

They would definitely know more. My parents bred our Pygmy goats a few times and then one nearly died, so it definitely makes me a bit nervous! I just want to do the best by them that I can, for sure. I can honestly say I know nothing about fiber goats though.

LOL that is very true; it would be ideal for at least one of us to know which way is up when it comes to babies and milking! I had definitely looked into the MiniManchas and even found a local breeder, but I read their milk can be mildly goaty and I definitely don't want to scare hubby off anymore than he already is with goat-products! It was also a consideration and vote for the NDs that we don't use much milk, or even butter and cheese, so I would be the only one likely eating the cheese. The cheese would be the main thing I'd make and if for whatever reason we got extra would be when I made butter or soap. Soap would be a ways off though, I believe. I am just trying to start slow.

I am SO excited for homemade chevre. I had done research about the CAE and CL so that will be something I will need papers-in-hand-for concerning the testing. I am actually a medical laboratory technician so I am all concerned with bloodwork as it is LOL. The milkability and their teat size is what turned me off of them at the beginning of my research but I have done tons of research before I came on here for opinions. It seems as long as I get decent milking lined does, I should be fine. I have teeny hands as it is. =) I am excited about finding some that are cute, adorable, pets with good teats =P.

Most of the NDs I have seen are definitely not from milking lines, for sure. That is the absolute truth! I would absolutely need to try her out first; a kicker is going to make everything, medical and milking and more, more difficult indeed. We did do a bit more research last night and did make the choice to not go ahead and get a LGD at least until we see if it would even be necessary. I agree with your reasoning; I don't want the dog to wander!

[CarolinaHobby]

LOL hubby already said no to cows. =( I already tried! They were my initial idea, to get two cows, but he is apparently a rabid hating cow-hater -snorts-

But he agreed to goats/sheep. =)

And indeed, I definitely am trying to start super-slowly. I want to get two (or three if hubby will agree) goats and three chickens. We are researching reliable fence-builders in the area currently. =) I intend on having the chickens in one pasture and the goats in another and switch so the chickens can keep down the bugs/lice and spread all the dirt and feces. Chickens and other poultry are amazing for a farm. We never, ever had ticks on our dogs when we had chickens. Luckily, I know chickens very well! I would be fine with the goats if I was just keeping them as pets, but with my wanting to make cheese for my own consumption (I literally don't know anyone who eats goat cheese, the bunch of loonies...maybe I'll convert them??), that changes the game a bit. I don't want to get in over my head, by any means. Overall, these goaties will be companion animals first and foremost, so I don't want to dread going outside to deal with them in the mornings and afternoons. I want it to be a pleasant experience for all of us involved. =)

I really wanted to start with kids because truth be told, I have a hunch hubby is a bit scared of them. I know he is terrified of horses and he's never been around goats or sheep. He was the one who pointed out the NDs again, and I suppose that is because does are so small. I don't want him to hate them either, by any means.

With that in mind, do y'all think it would still be best to go ahead and get two bred does, or to get a doe with kids so that he can see the silly babies and learn to love them that way? =)

[Alice In TX/MO]

You read a lie about MiniMancha milk. I have them. Think half-and-half.

There are breeds (Toggenbergs) that have strong milk for certain types of cheesemaking. Not LaManchas or MiniManchas.

[CarolinaHobby]

http://www.nigeriandwarfgoat.weebly....omparison.html is the chart that I got the "mild" goaty flavor for the mini-mancha's milk from. I'm sorry if I offended. =/

[crazyfarm]

I'm getting 2 does and rotating breeding. So I'll only have one doe in milk per year. I'd get 2 does. I don't want to feed livestock pets!

[Homesteader333]

I would get a been there done that doe that is or isn't already pregnant and a year old doe. After your pregnant doe kids you can keep a spelling and then you have three does. I wouldn't recommend getting a sheep because sheep are very submissive and the goats will bully them. We had goats that were much smaller then our sheep and the sheep constantly got bear up and bitten. Good luck! Goats are fun!

[Homesteader333]

Oh and I like the rotational breeding idea. If you don't want to feed the babies you can leave them separated at night, milk in the morning, and after milking leave the babies with her. Seperate them at night again and repeat. It would be best to wait until the kids are about a week or two to do this. Don't worry, you will still get PLENTY of milk! Trust me.

[wogglebug]

Where are you? This can affect the answers.

Strongly consider Muscovy ducks. They are quiet, fairly big, lay a fair number of eggs, and hatch as many as they can get away with. They don't NEED as much water as mallard-derived ducks, and their meat is different - more like lean pork, lamb or veal. Poultry is an easy introduction to preparing your own meat, and the bones can be used to put more calcium in your diet than would milk. A mallard a week should give you meat for at least three days, plus eggs on other days.

A lacto-ovo diet really gives you all the nutrition you need. Add a Sunday roast bird, and it's plenty.

Then add your goats, but you've eased into farm livestock, and already had a lot of your bad experiences, before you need to go through it with something as over-the-top personable as goats.

Hatch a clutch of chickens mid-spring. They should be just into full lay as winter comes on, and be easy to keep laying through winter when the Muscovies will knock off for the duration.

Consider getting a couple of pigs annually, letting then graze as much as possible, and slaughtering one in mid-Autumn and one in late Winter. Since they won't be too concentrated, they won't be too objectionable, and they won't grow too big and fat - more like lean pork.

There's some value in grazing different animals on the same area at the same time. It gives the other areas time to recover, and to some extent it lets the birds break up the quadruped's manure, clean up the insects, and eat-down what the other animals don't finish.