Wwyd?

[SpaceCadet12364]

Wake up this morning to someone's free-ranging dog running through the yard and pasture, presumably chasing something.

Go out to see if dog is still in the pasture (hoping that the cow with the new calf might catch him first)....neighbor that claims they keep the dog up all the time (not that long ago, it was gee we cant seem to keep him up, but he stays on the porch or in our yard all the time) is leaving out in his vehicle.

We get into a discussion about the dog, and I try to point out that we and the other neighbor (whose pasture the dog is in now) do have new calves, and that momma cows can be rather protective (read that as just might stomp a mud-hole in the dog).

He starts to rant about how I always complain about their dog (that can't stay out of the cow pastures on our road), but HE NEVER complains about the guineas that I free-range. Complains about the other neighbor down the road whose dogs free-range as well, and do their business in his yard (um, what does that persons dog have to do with me?). Apparently their family doesnt like a relatively tick-free existence, such as the neighbor's wife seemed to like being able to be in the yard or hang out laundry again and not get covered up in ticks. I didn't point out that I get the free ranging dogs (theirs AND the other persons, as well as others that travel down the road from elsewhere to "visit" with the free ranging girl dogs) doing their business in my yard too. Dog business does not make great fertilizer.....

I guess I'm confused, I didn't think that free-ranging dogs were the same as free-ranging birds that provide a service. Actually, the free-ranging dogs will BRING ticks into their yard.....the birds will normally only range out so far. Pretty sure that free-ranging birds is legal, but free-ranging canines is not. Even out in the country.

I did just have a total of 8 keets hatch out this week.....but since it appears to continue to live a tick-free existence is not desired, and the neighbor would apparently prefer to spread his yard in chemicals for his kids and grandkid to play in....so be it. Guess it'd be best to sell them instead.

Anyone with good ideas on how best to catch up grown guinea fowl that roost in the barn rafters at night, and are a bit hard to reach then?

When we first bought this place 12 years ago, the neighbors were relieved when they saw us putting up fencing and getting started on cattle. Apparently they were expecting the guy we bought it from to have sold it to a developer.....

....perhaps its time to make that concern come to fruition.....I'm thinking someone that will put in 8 to 10 houses or so, perhaps a trailer park. Or maybe check with the guy who bought out most of the 80 acres at the end of the road when the estate auctioned it. Perhaps he'd like to buy this, live in the house, and put a nice big chicken house on the rest of the place (he has several chicken houses in another location in town.

I'll get off my now.....

[Patchouli]

You might want to post this in Homesteading questions, you will probably get more answers. A lot of posters there avoid GC like the plague.

Guineas are pretty polarizing. Some people like them and some hate them. If they are roaming on the neighbors property I would have to agree with them it would be pretty galling to have you fuss about their dog. Unless the dog actually harms something I wouldn't fuss about it. I would rather have a liveand let live relationship.

I have never found a way to keep guineas 100% contained short of a range shelter. It kind of defeats their purpose though. Did you explain to the neighbors why they guineas are beneficial?

[wyld thang]

you can be the alpha of the dog and train him to respect your boundaries, it doesnt' take a lot of work. I found this way easier than getting a careless neighbor to reign in their dog. it's kind of funny too when their dog obeys you but continues to ignore them ha!

[SpaceCadet12364]

Patchouli, if the dog was just free ranging the neighborhood, I guess that is one thing. However, he doesn't respect hot wires, and likes to run through and around cow pastures...not just mine, the other neighbor's too. And both of us have young calves.

I guess my main thought pattern is that I really don't care to have to retrieve a beagle-pizza if one of our cows stomps him flat. Or, worse, would be he gets the cattle to running and they either jump or run through the fence. That is a pain to catch them back up, and if someone hits one with a car or gets hurt, guess who they would set land speed records in their rush to sue the bejeebers out of? Me, thats who.

What kind of puts the ol knickers in a knot is the "oh, he wont stay up" so they didn't even try too hard when he was a growing pup. Now that he is a grown dog, they will tell you to your face that he is always tied up, but I've yet to see that happen. I can be out weedeating our fenceline, and the fuzzy little bugger will act like he is going to attack (there is a road inbetween our side and their side).



Oh, and yes, I did. Matter of fact, when we started running the guineas several years ago (7 or 8 maybe?) everyone was like wow, we can hang laundry out or be outside and not get covered up with ticks anymore.

I brought that up, and he's like we still have ticks.......well, duh, a freeranging dog will bring them in from elsewhere outside the usual range of the birds. And I think I'm the only one for about a good mile or two radius that has birds (someone's got a rooster or two semi-nearby, I hear them on occasion)

[AngieM2]

moved here as GC didn't work well for this topic.

[SpaceCadet12364]

Don't know if this helps to put anything into perspective, but us and the other neighbor that runs cows, with the exception of the 80 acres that sold a couple years back at the end of the road....we have 10 acres, the neighbor maybe 7 or so plus there is a stretch across the back of two of the neighbors that he uses (dont know if its his, or the neighbors and they let him use it...think it stays damp back there, so they don't like to fool with it). The neighbor with the roaming dog, they have maybe a couple acres? One of those probably would be happier in a subdivision, but out in the county they have room to park all sorts of toys...boat, like 5 cars, 4 wheeler. And let one of their two dogs run free.....the other one, somehow manages to stay tied out to a tree.

Never understood people who get a dog or three, and just let them run. Or, tie them to a tree and rarely interact with them. Whats the point? They are SUPPOSED to be part of the family.

They like to shoot fireworks on the 4th out in the middle of the road, guess which way the bottle rockets go.....yeah, NOT up in the air above their house/property....... (our place is lengthways down the road, starting where you turn in onto it, about 2/3 of the entire length of the road so we are across the street from 3 neighbors)

[Harry Chickpea]

http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/s...58_005_991.htm

Under Section 258.235, any person may kill or seize any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing or wounding any livestock, or wounding or killing poultry, or attacking human beings, whether or not such dog bears the license tag required by the provisions of this chapter. There shall be no liability on such person in damages or otherwise for killing, injuring from an attempt to kill, or for seizing the dog. That same section also comprises the state's new strict liability law for dog bites. Under Sec. 235(4), any owner whose dog is found to have caused damage to a person, livestock, or other property shall be responsible for that damage.

Guess that sums it up.

[Chief Cook]

Geesh, I am glad that we live so far away from people. I feel for you and if something should happen to said dog, I think I would just get a hole dug quick and not say anything. Mama cows will be mama cows. I don't understand why people move to the county and then get dogs and don't try to keep them up. Good luck and best wishes.

[Patchouli]

With the further information sounds like that neighbor needs to go. I have seen cows trample smaller dogs to death so it is a definite problem. I had a pack of smaller yappy dogs get into my place and I ran them out. They headed to the pasture next door full of cows and young calves and that was the end of the yappy dog pack. I really felt bad. I always try to take dogs back to their owners and generally around here they are pretty good about keeping them up. But if they aren't the dogs tend to disappear pretty quickly. I haven't had to shoot any but I must have some pretty proactive neighbors.

So long as you have warned them that cattle can kill a dog and you will hold them responsible if it causes a stampede that injures your cattle you are pretty much faced with the choice of shooting it (which you are well within your rights to do) or just waiting for the inevitable. I do think Wyld Thang is right though you can teach the dog to listen to you.

We try to fence as much out as possible. If hot wire isn't keeping him out that may be hard though.

[rambler]

I take it you don't like his dog, and he doesn't like your chickens.

He can think of a hundred reasons to like his dog and hate your chickens.

You can think of a hundred reasons to love your chickens and hate his dog.

Sounds like a fair trade off.

Paul

[SpaceCadet12364]

Well, so far as we know, he's not been stupid enough to actually go after one of the cows or one of the calves. Its a beagle, so probably chasing rabbits or something like that. Least ways, we've never caught him chasing cows.
I'd prefer it not come about to that, trying to round up cows that are spun up is not a fun way to spend your time, in case you've never had the pleasure of the experience.....

We had one time a few years back, where had to shoot a dog that was tearing up one of our ducks (who weirdly, didnt seem to ever wander off the place that we could see/tell) IN the pasture. Hollering got one dog to break off, come out and roll over in front of me with a "Im sorry, scratch my belly" look. The other one, well, did not.

Last time I looked for KY, for small animals like chickens, ducks, guineas, etc....a dog has to be actually attacking the small livestock to be on the right side to be shooting it. For large livestock, chasing is cause enough to shoot. For people, I think all the dog has to do is be threatening or something along those lines.

[rambler]

In general one dog doesn't often bother cattle.

If they from a pack, more than one, that would be a different story.

Paul

[Danaus29]

A small dog generally doesn't bother cattle. A large dog can kill a small calf in seconds.

SapceCadet, your neighbor and their attitude about their dog is exactly why most people shoot, shovel, and shut up. And personally I would not want your guineas free ranging in my yard. And no, it's not legal for your guineas to roam other people's property. How to catch them and keep them from roaming? That I can't tell you because I've never had guineas.

Kentucky law regarding killing trespassing dogs:
(2) Any livestock owner or his agent, without liability, may kill any dog trespassing on that owner's property and observed in the act of pursuing or wounding his livestock.
From this site:
http://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/fence/ky_fnc.htm

[Patchouli]

If you were my neighbor I would be thrilled you let your guineas roam my property. Everybody is different.

I have had to chase panicked cows and you are right it is not fun. Beagles aren't really the sort though. If you get an untrained herding breed they can be bad for running cows. And the bully breeds can take down a calf. :/

Your neighbors should be more concerned that one day that beagle will chase something so far he won't get back home. Any sort of hunting breed is bad for that.

[logbuilder]

Originally Posted by Patchouli

Your neighbors should be more concerned that one day that beagle will chase something so far he won't get back home. Any sort of hunting breed is bad for that.

Little bit different a story but this happened last year to my neighbor. He has two dogs, male (Duke) and older female (Daisy). Nice dogs. Let us know if something is coming and stay on their property.

Anyway, last year I heard a shot from his direction. I headed over and he had shot a little black bear on his front porch. It came to eat the dog food. The dogs were inside at the time and when he went outside and was confronted with the bear, the dogs ran out. He got his gun a shot it.

Then we noticed that Daisy was gone. We put out flyers and she was found 4 days later almost 4 miles away. She wasn't chasing anything since the bear was dead. She must have been scared to death and just took off.

[SpaceCadet12364]

They usually hang out around our place, or the neighbor with the cows. Occasionally they will make it down to the dog free-ranger's place.

At the moment, we just have the 5 adults that range around. I'm selling the new hatchees.

At only 5 of them, they tend not to range out too far. One point, we had a dozen or so, and they would range out a little too far. Then people whittled those numbers down quick because we have a few drivers in the area that will aim for any small animals that may be in the road....guineas, dogs, cats, possums, etc. Not to mention attrition via free ranging dogs, hawks, coyotes.....

At least bird business is usually much smaller than the typical dog business........and actually is a usable fertilizer. Don't think dog stuff can be used as fertilizer, can it?

[Jennifer L.]

If the guy wanted guineas in his yard he'd buy them himself, so his complaint is perfectly valid. He also should keep his dog home. You both have to keep your animals within your borders if a neighbor doesn't want them running on him.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Three letters. S. S. S.

[Patchouli]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet12364

They usually hang out around our place, or the neighbor with the cows. Occasionally they will make it down to the dog free-ranger's place.

At the moment, we just have the 5 adults that range around. I'm selling the new hatchees.

At only 5 of them, they tend not to range out too far. One point, we had a dozen or so, and they would range out a little too far. Then people whittled those numbers down quick because we have a few drivers in the area that will aim for any small animals that may be in the road....guineas, dogs, cats, possums, etc. Not to mention attrition via free ranging dogs, hawks, coyotes.....

At least bird business is usually much smaller than the typical dog business........and actually is a usable fertilizer. Don't think dog stuff can be used as fertilizer, can it?

You can compost non-edibles with dog and cat manure. We have a composting toilet and we put pine pellets in the litter box. We just dump it right into the compost bin with ours.

We have seperate compost bins for the veggies.

[SpaceCadet12364]

Originally Posted by Jennifer L.

If the guy wanted guineas in his yard he'd buy them himself, so his complaint is perfectly valid. He also should keep his dog home. You both have to keep your animals within your borders if a neighbor doesn't want them running on him.

They've never said anything before about them, other than how nice it was to not get covered up in ticks anymore.

Oh well, as they attrite due to dogs, coyotes, cars, etc.....will only keep a couple until we leave here (really thinking about that aspect of it). With only a couple three, they should have more than enough to eat without going far. And if they don't care about their dog enough to keep him up, then so be it. He will likely be a road or pasture pizza if he keeps roaming as they let him do. And if we catch him actually chasing cows? SSS works for me. Heck, people will hit a guinea and drop the carcass off at the end of our driveway. O.o Weird really, the one is chained up all the time, the other runs free. O.o

Y'know, and this is just my thoughts on the general matter, I really think one of the main reasons things such as ticks and other noxious bugs seem to have "taken over" is if you think about it.....it wasnt all that long ago that just about every household had a couple chickens or other fowl that were free-ranged on the property. People started getting where they got away from doing that.....and the bugs start to expand.