Portable and window AC questions

[meanwhile]

Our Farm Market indoor shop is 2,000 sq ft. We have to buy a window AC since it is VERY EXTREMELY hot in here since we get all the afternoon sun hit roof plus heat from a Bakery next door.

We have to provide our own AC unit plus do any electrical work so we were hoping to be able to use only a window AC unit that uses the 110 outlet. But, charts I am finding online vary in what they say we must have.

Some seem to be saying I need 32,000 BTU up to 72,000 BTU. But those require installing a 220 electrical line which means I would have to pay electrician.

I thought about buying two smaller 110 units but we cannot put one in the front window since it is on our porch and customers sit out there to eat. Also, two units might mess up the breaker box and I would have to use electrician anyway?

Anyone experienced with this problem and have a suggestion?

Has anyone had good luck with the portable type AC? The type that sits on the floor and only a vent goes out the window? I was wondering if we had a window unit in the back of the shop and a portable type in the front if that would balance out and be enough?

Thank you for any and all suggestions and information.

[Harry Chickpea]

No way will a portable unit do anything. The only purpose I can see for such things is to cool someone at a desk in the middle of a hot warehouse, and only that by blowing directly upon their face.

Window units will be grossly undersized as well and 110 volts is out.

You need to have an AC contractor come in and do the proper load calculations to determine sizing. I'll tell you flat-out from what you are describing that you likely will need a minimum of a 3 or 4 ton unit. You are looking at at least $10,000 and permits.

[meanwhile]

Thank you Harry Chickpea. But......I cannot spend that much.

I just need to cool the space as best I can without spending too much money.

I agree about the portable. I have been reading online about it and don't think that would work except it might cool one front area.

Thank you. Anyone else with tips?

[blufford]

Maybe you could start by cooling the roof down with a water misting set-up. I've read of some pretty dramatic cooling by this method.

[Patchouli]

Can you tell us a little more about your building? Roof type, how much insulation, etc.

[Harry Chickpea]

Typically, leases in commercial space include the fixed improvements. I have no idea what you signed for a lease, but with limited funds your choices are to block off a minimal space that you can cool, break the lease and walk, or have the landlord install the properly sized equipment and up the monthly $$$ on the lease to cover the cost over time.

For a period of time, my office in Miami had to be located in a closed theatre. My presence was seen as a security measure. Within a week of the main AC being turned off the mold began to grow, and the seats in the auditorium began to grow a furry coat. Without proper AC in hot moist climates, everything deteriorates, molds, and rusts. You don't want to expose yourself or your customers to that.

I recognize that you may not like what I am relating to you, and that you are in an uncomfortable spot just looking for help, but sometimes the best help is to recognize a situation as untenable and move on. It is done in business all the time.

In your situation - IF the site was showing the potential to make money, I would go to the landlord or leasing agent and say "I'm going to be breaking the lease on such and such a date as the property you leased us does not meet the basic standards required for conducting business." I would have it typed out and be ready to hand it to them at that time. I would then follow by saying - "If you are willing to install a properly sized AC with X weeks and increase the rent by no more than $X/mo, I might reconsider. I can't see your being able to rent the space in the future unless this is done anyway, so the choice is for you to do it now with a tenant, or do it later and hope to find a tenant." Understand that electric costs for AC can be substantial as well, so don't be generous on the additional amount of rent you might be willing to pay.

[meanwhile]

Thank you for the tips.

Breaking the lease is not an option at all. I love the space, like the area, business is good and I agreed with terms of lease.

I just need to figure out how to cool the space down a bit for as little money as I can.

Misting the roof is not an option right now but might be an option later. We are pondering how it might help.

Thank you

[doingitmyself]

First try to deflect any direct sunlight from your windows (think tinting, trees, blinds, ect...) Another thing you is and add ceiling fans.

What do you mean "A/C would mess up your breaker box"? If you have no room in the box for an extra circuit or two then honestly the service is too small to start with and really should be updated for saftey.

Installing a 220 V circuit is no big deal at all, for many folks it is a DIY project. If you do hire an electrician its very quick for them to do and should not cost much to have done.

Are folks complaining about the heat? Or are you just warmer than you want to be?

[ErinP]

You simply are not going to be able to cool off 2000 square feet with window units unless you have at least 4 or 5...And those are the big ones, not those little $250 jobbies from WalMart. (the 110 units)

If you were in Arizona instead of NC, a couple of $1000 portable swamp coolers would probably work fairly well for you, but where you're in a humid area, swamp coolers are useless...

The only way a small AC unit will work is if you can close off a small space (think 8x8 or 10x10) and just cool that part.

[7thswan]

I have one of those AC units that sit inside with the vent that goes outside,next to me right now. It works very well. It has a dry mode that will remove about 5 gal. of water out of the air every 12 hours, and the resulting air is very cool. It also has an Ion button, which helps clean the air. It cost about 225. runs on 110. I forgot how many BTUs it is. I figure I can move it outside to the trailer(vintage,no ac.) if we have company. it is heavy tho. It is on wheels. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat.ps, we bought this kind because of the type of window we have.

[doingitmyself]

Sounds like a good place to sell snow cones!!! LOLOL I'm kind of kidding but really I'm not. Put all your snow cone money into a A/C fund and don't borrow or rob from it like the politicians do here in Illinois.

[Fire-Man]

Meanwhile, can you close off part of your 2000sqft with clear plastic hanging from the ceiling(done neatly)----over lapped pieces so you/customers can walk through to get to the un-AC section when needed?

I had a shop that was only 864sqft with a 23,000btu window AC, on 220. The shop did not have enough insulation to keep it cool with this window unit----until I did the clear plastic on about 1/2 of the building. Worked Real Good.


If you can not do this-----then "I" would invest in some GOOD fans instead of a little AC in a big building. I rented a 6000sqft building---no AC, we used Good fans and had one at the back door blowing out that drawed fresh air from the front door----that made alot of difference on them 100 degree days.

[Nimrod]

Put up a trellis over the roof and plant a vine type plant that will shade the roof when it covers the trellis. Can you insulate the inside of the roof?

How is the bakery heating your space? Can you get them to stop?

Two thousand sq, feet is not too much for 2 window type ACs to cool. Much depends on how tight the building is. How often is someone opening the door?

I have a 500 sq. foot mobile home that is not well insulated, has leaky windows, and the sun shines on the long side and the roof. I put in 2 5000 BTU window units. Most of the time I only need to run one. If the temp gets over 100 and the humidity is high, I run them both. Whoever put this mobile home in ran 10 gauge wire from the post/meter to the home. I only have 30 amps X two 110 volt legs for the whole house. I put in a shut off switch with a 220 volt, 30 amp breaker by the meter on the post for the house and I haven't blown it yet.

If you want to get by as cheap as possible you should give it a try. It may not cool it down as much as you like but it should reduce the humidity and make it bearable. I would buy the biggest 110 volt units your electrical system can handle. If it doesn't work out you can sell 2 slightly used units for close to what you paid for them.

Your electrical service consists of two 110 volt legs. You can put in two window type ACs, just be sure they are not both on the same leg. You may have to move a couple of breakers so the circuits are on different legs.

You can not overload the circuits you put the ACs on. Are there items, like refrigerators, that put a big draw on your electrical system? Plug a radio into the outlet you plan to plug the AC into, turn it on, shut off the circuit breaker until the radio goes off, check to see what else goes off too. make sure there is not too much on that circuit. Rinse and repeat for the other circuit.

[meanwhile]

7th Swan: What is the brand of the portable unit you have? I am calculating the sq. footage again and think one large window unit would cool off the back area and one portable unit cool the front.

Nimrod: Thanks for the tip about using the radio to figure out the plugs. Good idea.

Thanks everyone.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Get an electrician to look at it. Safer than causing a problem overloading the circuits.

[michael ark]

If the bakery has a vent a hood make sure they use it.Look on craigslist for a package air unit.Have a hvac guy come out and give you a bid on a unit that way you can find out how many tons you need.Have you looked at big ass fans. They move allot of air.http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCkfGWypBRXWRd4rBHc7IMA

[Kasota]

I used to have one of those AC units like 7thSwan is talking about. It cooled the lower level of my house very well. Small house, though, and nothing close to the space you are talking about, but it worked really well to keep a large living room, small kitchen and small entry way very cool. I was pleasantly surprised. When my son's AC went in the house he was renting from his dad and his dad didn't have the $ to repair it I gave it to him. Bigger house by far and it still did a good job of taking the edge off. Not so cold you think you have to turn the ac off...but really made things much more bearable.

[7thswan]

Originally Posted by meanwhile

7th Swan: What is the brand of the portable unit you have? I am calculating the sq. footage again and think one large window unit would cool off the back area and one portable unit cool the front.

Nimrod: Thanks for the tip about using the radio to figure out the plugs. Good idea.

Thanks everyone.

It's an Everstar. Asked Dh, he says it's 10,000 BTU's. He likes it so well he's saying we should get one for the kitchen, which is very large with valuted celings and 2 skylights.

[PorkChopsMmm]

We live in an off grid 1.5 story ~1200 sqft house. Even in the hottest Michigan summer we were able to drastically cool the place (from low 90's to mid to high 70's) with a basic window unit. ~8,000 BTU and it only uses 120 AC.

I would try to pick up a used window unit or 2 from Craigslist and see how it helps. It won't make your place feel like you have a full A/C system, and there will be hot spots, but it should get you going in the direction you want to go for the least amount of money.

Also, doingitmyself is right -- running a 220 outlet from a breaker panel that supports it is not difficult in case you want to go with larger A/C units.

[Nancy]

We cool our old farmhouse on 2 window A/c's, mostly to get the Nebraska humidity under control. Works great. We also have a whole house fan in our upstairs hallway that makes a huge difference when you can draw out the heat from upstairs.