How much land?

[ski1123]

I have been looking into starting a diversified homestead with a little bit of everything for meat and veggies. One thing I haven't been able to come up with is how much land would be ideal. I live in Maine and ideally would like enough land to grass feed my animals to lower feed costs. I would also like to have 6-12 cows, 6-12 pigs about the same with goats and 40-50 chickens mixed for meat and eggs.

I want to start small enough to not have huge debts and bills and then grow into what I think of full size. It would be nice to make a little bit of money but more so at least pay for its self.

Any advice or comments are welcomed and I thank you for your wisdom.

[idigbeets]

6-12 cows will require around 20 acres for you to manage pasture reasonably well, assuming it is productive land, with a good stand and some diversity in forage. My general rule of thumb is an acre of pasture, per cow, per month during the growing season. You will have to stockpile some pasture for the winter, but chances are you'll run out and will need hay.

In Maine you'll need to buy or make hay as well, I'd put another 10 acres aside for that.

Chickens and pigs can share some of the same land at different times, I'd figure another 5-10 acres there as well.

[Gravytrain]

I agree with idig about the cow pasture/hayfield requirements, although 6-12 is quite a range. Twelve cows on 20 acres of marginal pasture would be a stretch to put it mildly. It's not difficult to lose a lot of money raising cattle in the north with long, harsh winters if you don't have a way to stockpile your own pastures. Feeding bought hay 6 months out of the year will make your beef, very expensive unless you have a way to barter for hay or hay making services.

Also, I think you would only need an acre or an acre and a half for the pigs, and no additional space for the chickens if you let them free range on the cow/pig pasture. Be advised that you WILL lose some birds if they're not cooped up, but I think the trade-off is worth it.

My advice would be to buy as much land as you can afford...maybe a tad more. IMO, land is the best investment you can make. It's better to have more land than you know what to do with than to not have enough to do what you want. Plus, in Maine you shouldn't be taking much of a hit on property taxes.

Good luck on your endeavors.

[DEKE01]

If you are looking to feed your family and have just a bit extra to offset costs...

The average American eats 1/10th of a 1300 lb cow and 1/4th of a 260 lb pig per year (on the hoof weights). So a family of 5 could slaughter one cow and 2 pigs per year, sell half the meat, and eat pretty much like the average American. To slaughter 1 cow per year and raise it from a weaner, with 2+ years to slaughter, means you need 2 or 3 cattle at all times. With pigs, you can buy 2 - 3 weaners every spring, slaughter in fall, and not worry about over wintering issues.

You are going to have the occasional mortality, so that's why I added in an extra animal of each type, which is even more important if your family is depending on farm production to keep groceries on the table.

You can call your local extension to find better estimates, but in Maine, my SWAG is that it takes more than 10 acres to carry 1 cow year round. A few pigs and a bunch of eggers and meat chickens can live on a 1/4 acre or less. If you have a source of waste food from restaurant, hospital, food packer, grocery store over ripe produce, etc, you can feed pigs and chickens for almost free. Cattle need big pastures or bought hay and grain; there isn't usually a way to find free cattle chow in meaningful amounts. Purchased feed is what makes raising livestock a money loser. If you have selected 6 - 12 each of cattle and swine for the income potential, fine. If you are thinking of family food, you might want to reduce the numbers so you can get by with less land.

Depending on what forage is like, you might want to consider that sheep and goats are better than cattle for small acreage meat production. Personally, goat is my favorite meat. And small ruminants are easier to manage as a reproductive herd than cattle small acreage.

I bought every bit of acreage I could afford and within 3 years was buying more land when a good deal came along. After making a good financial plan that takes into account your plans, needs, and desires, I would buy just as much land as I could afford and to some degree, adjust my plans to fit the land.

[FarmboyBill]

IF you intend to START with the livestock you mentioned, You better be pretty well off financially. IF you intend to end up with those numbers, that's a easier thing then.
When I was home in NE Kansas, and we had a doz cows, we had them on around 30 acres or less, and they kept it down enough that we had ALOT of weeds. Id say, youd want around 40 acres for a doz cows, DEPENDING on breed. Goats will do fine in woodlands, and you could get by, Id think with 5 acres of over grown, brushy woods for a doz goats. Chickens WITHOUT a rooster will stay right by the chicken house and forage around it. WITH a rooster, they'll wander far and wide, getting reduced in number while doing so. Why you would need that many chickens, unless you had a market for the eggs is beyond me. I have 16 OLD hens, and im getting between a doz and 15 a day, EVERY DAY.

[ErinP]

Are stock rates in Maine similar enough to PA that the one-acre-one-cow rule of thumb still works?
(out here on the high plains, the rule of thumb is more like 10 acres per cow. Minimum. That's with the assumption that you'll feed hay in the winter.
Fifteen-20 is better. )

I want to start small enough to not have huge debts and bills and then grow into what I think of full size. It would be nice to make a little bit of money but more so at least pay for its self.

Based on the type of questions you're asking, I'm making the guess that you don't have much for experience?

I'll second the suggestion to buy as much land as you possibly can. It's unlikely you'll ever regret having too much land, but it's quite common that you'll wish you had MORE.

I'll also add the suggestion to start VERY small with your livestock.
Chickens are fine. They're kind of like disposable livestock. But the larger animals like hogs, goats and cattle, you might want to start with just a handful of one specie first (goats are probably the most forgiving), then in a year or two, add your second, then your third.
That way you're figuring out what you're doing without having a big investment in stock.

[highlands]

Originally Posted by ski1123

I haven't been able to come up with is how much land would be ideal.

As a general rule I would suggest starting small and growing slowly, feeling your way into things.

Land is different. You can't just expand your land. If you buy 10 acres and then decide you want to have 100 acres you probably will have to buy more land somewhere else, possibly abandoning all the infrastructure you have invested in on that first ten acres.

Thus my suggestion with land is to buy the absolute maximum land you can possibly afford. Then make the land work for you.

I bought a lot of land, I've been doing sustainable logging on that land to make the land pay for itself as I expanded my need for other forms of farming. At first I only used four acres for gardens, crops and livestock. Then ten. Then 20. Then 30. Now I'm using 70 acres. If I need to expand further I have the land available. While it 'waits' it pays for itself in lumber sales.

Ah, but you say, "Land is expensive!" Well, it's cheaper now than it will probably ever be in the future. I bought my land a long time ago in a previous real estate crash. That's the time to buy land. Right now land prices are generally down so now is a good time to buy.

Ah, but you say, "Land is expensive where I want to be!" Well, question where you want to buy. I would suggest buying in a cheap land location and then selling into higher class markets within an hour's drive. If you buy in an expensive place you'll pay more for the land, more in interest, more in lost opportunity money and more every year in taxes as well as possibly more in insurance. All that adds up to make farming a lot harder. Keep your overhead low.

Tip: Save your self a boat load of grief - Don't fight city hall. I drew circles on the map for things that were important to me like family, markets, etc. Then I looked at the overlapping areas and checked out the zoning in those towns to make sure it was compatible with what I wanted to do (e.g., no zoning). One of my brothers did the opposite. He spent decades fighting the town over how he wanted to do things. Waste of time. Go in with eyes wide open and pick your battles.

So how much land? Well, that depends on what you do. I raise pigs on pasture. I can raise ten pigs per acre sustainably. I also want a few acres for gardens, a few acres for firewood, etc. So that sets my minimum at about 50 acres. I have a lot more than that so I have elbow room and can expand. They don't make more land.

Cheers,

-Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/

[urban gleaner]

Originally Posted by ski1123

I have been looking into starting a diversified homestead with a little bit of everything for meat and veggies. One thing I haven't been able to come up with is how much land would be ideal. I live in Maine and ideally would like enough land to grass feed my animals to lower feed costs. I would also like to have 6-12 cows, 6-12 pigs about the same with goats and 40-50 chickens mixed for meat and eggs.

I want to start small enough to not have huge debts and bills and then grow into what I think of full size. It would be nice to make a little bit of money but more so at least pay for its self.

Any advice or comments are welcomed and I thank you for your wisdom.

I would say with that much livestock, probably at least 20 acres, but given where you live, you might need more. Best bet is to contact your local ag extension office, they could do a better job. Also, have you thought about raising smaller meat animals and/or birds? They could free range part of the year-you would still need to provide part of their feed, but you could probably raise it. On that, look at alt food sources, such as honey locust seed pods etc.

[ski1123]

I wanted to thank you all for your insights. Your comments have given me some things to plan out and I have a good idea where I want to go with this.

As for my background, my extended family are all dairy farmers. They farm about 1700 acres but also grow all there own food with only a few pastures so guessing how much land for that small a herd isn't something that I was able to figure out. The numbers I provided were my end goal not starting. My plan is to start out small grow a base and then end up around those numbers and not much bigger then that. This is the plan I am working towards but as some said I may be adjusting based on what I can manage as well as what I can sell to pay for the bills. I want to start out as a second income in hopes to grow enough to do it full time.

Thanks for all the advice.

[ET1 SS]

Maine has a lot of small farms, both subsistence and market farming.

We have been seeing more farms start-up every year and new Farmer's Markets open every year. While the rest of the nation has been seeing a decline on farms.

I have 4 pigs [boar and 3 sows] 'pastured' in 4 acres of woodlot, but I still need to provide feed for them half of the year.