Water well pump and stuff question

chronic66 · #1 05/04/14, 01:13 PM

I've have a patch of ground a couple miles from my home. It has a former irrigation well on site. 16 inch casing, a little over 200 feet deep. I last pumped it about 3 years ago and it was putting out about 300 gallon a minute. That pump and rod and all are gone. Now I want to put a submersible water pump down there and pump water to fill a stock tank or something of that nature. I really don't want the expense of putting a pressure tank in at this time. I don't even want to hook it into the power line. I plan on just taking my generator out there and pumping water whenever I want to. I am kind of trying to get ideas if this is a bad idea or not. I know that making the pump shut on and off constantly is a bad idea. I wonder if anyone here runs a water well without a pressure tank. Ideas?

jwal10 · #2 05/04/14, 01:23 PM

Sure, for what you are wanting it is all good. A bigger tank would be better, more at a time, then pump again when you need more. You can upgrade later, just size the pump to what you will be doing later on the property. Make sure your generator is plenty big to start your pump. Make sure and put the well casing adapter on to seal everything good. Talk to a good knowledgeable pump person and explain exactly what you want, now and in the future....James

jwal10 · #3 05/04/14, 01:29 PM

You could even irrigate with it if you sized everything right. The pump sized for gal/min and pressure will run sprinklers for hours then shut down, manually or timer, if you want....James

fishhead · #4 05/04/14, 01:36 PM

That's going to take a pretty big generator. I think my 5 hp well pump pulled 40+ amps during start up.

I used to have a commercial fish farm and the 200 gal/min well was set up to pump without any shut off or pressure tank. I did put a valve on the discharge so that I could put back pressure on the pump in order to protect the thrust bearing.

If it were me and I was only pumping stock tanks I would look at a smaller pump or maybe a jet pump depending on the static water level in the well.

farminghandyman · #5 05/04/14, 02:17 PM

if your just filling a stock tank, run your pipe up and out to the tank, and leave the end of the pipe open (NO VALVES) or way of closing it,

hook up the generator, (you may want an disconnect) to start the generator and get it running before putting load on it,

kick It on and let it fill, a lot of sub pumps are 1 hp, or so, all you need is enough to raise the water no build pressure, and you most likely do not need more than 10 gallons a min,

If you want an automatic system, measure the amount of fuel you need to fill the tank, and put that in the generator and let it run out, if you put the correct amount in it will shut off when full or near, (via time) if you do not want over flow, use a electrical float switch to shut off the pump, (like a pressure switch but works off a float),

our well is near 300 and it is a pressure system, and our 4000 watt generator will run it with out problem, on 240 volts.

chronic66 · #6 05/04/14, 03:36 PM

I thank you all for the good ideas and suggestions. I think this is going to be a fun little project. I have the pipe, wiring and pump in an old well here at my house that should be still in good condition. I will have my regular professional well driller do all the work. I can not fully do what I want to do until about 10 years have past, but, I could make a little oasis and drinking hole for the deer and other wildlife that is around here for now. I imagine that the horsepower of the submersible pump is a 1 hp. The Generator is about 8 years old, only used for two days in an ice storm. It is a Powermate 10000 watt surge 8000 watt continuous. It powered my whole house including the water well, so I think it is big enough for my use. Thanks again for taking the time to respond. I will keep an eye on this thread in case you have more thoughts. Actually, if things work out right, I could fence off and use about 32 acres for grazing even now. The big problem being we are in a terrible drought and would not be good for the grass to do that right now.

gila_dog · #7 05/04/14, 06:12 PM

A lot of ranches use solar water pumps nowadays instead of windmills. Much less maintenance. So if you don't need a lot of water for irrigation or stock watering then maybe just a 12V submersible pump down in the well on a length of 3/4" plastic drinking water pipe running off a solar PV panel would be good enough. When the sun shines, water pees out of the riser into an unpressurized tank at or above ground level. When the sun goes away it shuts off. You could rig a float switch to disable the pump if the tank fills up. You could hook up a drinker with a float valve to this tank and have water available for wildlife.

I helped a friend rig a 300 gal drinking water tank like to his well at a remote place he has. Then we built an insulated shed around it with a glass door facing south. This little greenhouse keeps the water tank, pipes and everything inside from ever freezing. The drinking water tank has an overflow pipe that runs any extra water outside to a stock watering tank. We rigged an on-demand 12V RV water pump inside the shed that sucks water out of the tank, pressurizes it, and sends it underground to a freeze-proof hydrant outside, and to his camp trailer. This doesn't run unless we open a water faucet somewhere. For this to work, tho, he needed a battery and charge controller hooked up to the PV panel. A bit more complication, but well worth it since we now have 12V power for the camp trailer (and its lights, fridge, heater, etc). So when we go to the little hideout place there's a tank of good drinking water already there and 12V power to make life more comfortable. No generators or fuel to haul around. We may rig a float switch in the stock tank to shut off the submersible pump if the tank fills up. But we haven't done that yet.

MichaelK! · #8 05/08/14, 10:29 AM

Hello Chronic
What you are asking about largely describes the system I already have in place on my land.

In my case, I have a 400' deep well with a 1.5hp Grunfos pump on it. With a static water level of -100 feet, I'm pumping about 6-7 gallons per minute. I power the 240V pump with a 6kw generator. I pump out of the ground, then approximately 150 vertical feet up the hill to a 5000 gallon storage tank. There are one-way valves in the well casing pipe, and one just at ground level, which prevents the water from draining back into the well. So, once water is pumped uphill, it can return back down by gravity flow only up to the well-head. So, once the pump is turned off, I have about 75psi of gravity pressure.

I assume since it's irrigated land it's more or less flat cropland. Is that correct? If there's a hill nearby you could do like I do and simply pump up the hill to get pressure. Another consideration is what is the static water level of the bore-hole. You say that the well is 200' deep, but is the water level only 100' deep? The depth you have to pump from will in part determine what types of pumps are appropriate.

If you have water at a depth of say 75', a solar system of a few hundred watts attached to flexible black water pipe and a solar water pump might be all you need. It's easily a single weekend project for two people. Just stretch out the pipe, splice all the wiring, and inch the pipe down into the well. The pump most likely will not run at all unless submerged in water, so do testing in a large bucket first before dropping it down.

chronic66 · #9 05/08/14, 09:32 PM

Hey Michaelk,

wogglebug · #10 05/09/14, 07:29 AM

Just where did you say it all was to be located?
I could sure use a pump and a generator, and I'd like to get a jump on the casual thieves and by-passers.
Thank you for your kind consideration.

wy_white_wolf · #11 05/09/14, 08:38 AM

You could also go with a DC pump like the Shurflo 9300 and just use jumpers from your vehicle or a battery to pump the water. That would save the expense of solar panels if you don't need that large of a volume of water.

http://www.sustainablepreparedness.c...ble-water-pump

WWW

chronic66 · #12 05/09/14, 10:11 PM

A lot of wisdom and good ideas on this forum, thanks for the suggestions. Gives me lots to think about. As for the other snide comment from wogglebug, there are lots of pumps and lots of generators scattered all over the country, you will just need to figure out on your own the location of mine. I actually don't plan on leaving my generator on site for very long. Although for about 3 years I had a diesel generator sitting in the same location.

chronic66 · #13 06/06/14, 06:26 PM

Well, deep subject. I am still waiting for my well driller to get free enough to work on my little project. I have, I think obtained a bit more accurate information than I had previously. The well is 218 feet deep. I have not done an accurate measurement of the depth to water but, I am pretty sure the static water level is at about 185 feet. I had a certain amount of comedy when I was trying to measure things, which involved dropping my spool of string down the well and having to pull all this back out of the well. There is a nice hill 1/4 mile away which would be nice to put a big water tank. It rained today, not a lot, but, there is hope for more to come tonight. Thank you, Jesus.

rambler · #14 06/07/14, 03:15 PM

Raining here too. Tired of it. Rivers are full or a bit over, fields are muddy, can't make any hay.

Good luck with the well project.

For what you won't, not too big a project, got anyone that can help you for a case of beer? Not too big a project with no extras on it.

Paul

chronic66 · #15 08/09/14, 09:16 PM

I have made some progress on my little project and wanted to bring this thread up again and maybe get a little help from anyone who has some ideas about this. My well drillers came and took the pipe, pump and wire out of the old well by my house and put it down into the 16 inch casing where I wanted it. They are just kind of working me in and still need to do the electrical work and make some sort of pipe work to run the water over to the tank which is about 40 feet away. I have some extra inch and one quarter iron pipe so I will use that, but, I have a question. Okay, the pipe comes up and their is a coupling that basically lets all the other pipe hang on it down in the well. The casing and all of this is basically ground level. There is a check valve that keeps the water from running back out down in the well. Will this not freeze? What needs to be done to keep it from freezing? Yes, I will ask my well guys when they come around, but, I am still wondering? Any and all comments welcomed!

chronic66 · #16 08/11/14, 09:42 PM

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. I went out for my normal drive around about dusk tonight. Drove into the site of the well and lo and behold my well is done, finished. I could see they pumped water with it and it is complete, beautiful. This is going to be awesome!

fordy · #17 08/11/14, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronic66

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. I went out for my normal drive around about dusk tonight. Drove into the site of the well and lo and behold my well is done, finished. I could see they pumped water with it and it is complete, beautiful. This is going to be awesome!

.............Pictures are necessary to complete this thread ! , fordy

haypoint · #18 08/12/14, 08:36 AM

Be careful not to contaminate your well water. When your pump shuts off and the hose is in the stock tank, the water will begin to syphon back into your well, emptying out the stock tank. Set up your hose so it never lays in the tank, even when full. Cap the well head to prevent birds/animals/insects from falling into your well.

chronic66 · #19 08/12/14, 02:40 PM

Ok haypoint,
The way they set it up is there is an 1 and 1/4 galv pipe coming straight up out of the casing, there is a tee with a plug that faces back down the well and about 45 feet of pipe running over to the stock tank. So there will be no hose in the tank. He did put in another tee and a 3/4 iron pipe to 3/4 hose fitting on it so I put on a deal so I can hook one or two garden hoses as might be needed. I also had them put on a pressure valve so I could make sure I didn't build up too much pressure. I just got back from sealing the bottom of the old stock tank. tomorrow or next I will fill the tank. I saw fresh deer prints around the tank. They must have been wondering when I was going to fill it. Yes, the well head is capped, all sealed up.

haypoint · #20 08/12/14, 03:41 PM

Just to be very clear, the 45 feet of pipe to the stock tank cannot siphon back to the well, right? There is an air gap between the pipe and the top edge of the stock tank, right? When your submerged pump shuts off, just the water in the 45 feet of pipe runs back down into the well, right?