LED light fixtures

[TRAILRIDER]

What do you all think about these new LED light fixtures? I bought a ceiling fixture to replace a ceiling fan I'm removing this week. Not sure how I feel about them yet.

[abbrewer]

They last for many years with no replacements, they use a fraction of the energy normal light bulbs do (decreasing the environmental cost of electricity production), buy good ones and the light color is exactly the same as normal light bulbs, if you produce your own electricity, you can get way more run time out of them, you can dim them to save more and create moods, they're more environmentally friendly than fluorescents for almost the same price, what's not to like?

[mrs whodunit]

I think the LED light bother me.

It seems like the light vibrates which I didn't think they where supposed to do. I though the was just florescents?

[rambler]

I have much more hope for LED, they will likely be my preferred choice of the future.

They are still working the kinks out, very new product design for mass produced, consumer marketing, I believe every 6 months we will see better setups and better prices on these. They seem to handle a range of cold and outdoor and such environments, they come on quickly, they seem to handle rougher handling, and they seem to last a long tome, using far less electricity than anything else. They also seem to put out a nice bright light as advertised. Even can find some that really are dim able or work with motion sensors.

I just despise the curly fluorescents the govt was pushing at first, they did not ever live up to their promises here on my farm. Dingy, dull, slow to warm up, very fragile, could not handle the power surges on a farm building, I never found any brand of those curly things that worked 'here' as well as the old regular bulbs. Aweful things.

Only my experiences 'here'.

Paul

[abbrewer]

Originally Posted by mrs whodunit

I think the LED light bother me.

It seems like the light vibrates which I didn't think they where supposed to do. I though the was just florescents?

You're right, the cheap no name LEDs do flicker. But don't think that's the case for all of them. For the average consumer, stick to the Philips brand at home Depot. Good prices. Great product.

If you want light the same as your normal light bulbs, buy a "warm" colour temperature. Many have the actual colour temp on them. Find one that is 3000k or below. The higher that number, the brighter and more blue the light. That number is actually the colour of the light. Normal light bulbs are around 2600k. Don't fall for the "daylight" marketing scam. There's no such thing. True sunlight is higher than 10000k and we don't have the technology to replicate it.

That being said, higher colour temps (4100k - 5000k) are great for workshops, they put out more light and help you see better when working. Beware that they will keep you awake (another good reason to use in shops). Read, don't use them in your house. You won't sleep as well with "daylight" aka higher colour temperature bulbs in your house.

Good comment about them getting better and cheaper too. It's not just your observation. It's really happening. They are, and will continue getting cheaper and better. LEDs are literally computer chips that put out light instead of process information like a computer. You know how computers keep getting cheaper and faster? LEDs are the same way.

Qualifications: I work in the electrical industry and I specialize in lighting/my father is an engineer specializing in lighting design.

If anyone has any questions on LEDs or the like. Glad to help out.

[||Downhome||]

LEDS work on DC, so if you power off of AC its changed to DC...

I'm not sure how they are doing it with these lights (most likly a rectifier, or a bridge rectifier). but when you do this, you get a "Ripple".
The Ripple matches the frequency of the AC current.
The Ripple can be smoothed out with capacitors.

Thats the "strobe" that your seeing in the LEDS.

[mrs whodunit]

I buy our LED's at Costco.

[Harry Chickpea]

"If anyone has any questions on LEDs or the like. Glad to help out."

OK, this one is a bit of a puzzle that I haven't researched to figure out. I have a Philips LED over the kitchen sink that is constant on (something I don't dare do with CFLs because the ballasts can burn up). It takes roughly 14 watts, IIRC. Last fall I bought a few outdoor LED bank lights (Array of LEDs to act as a floodlight) and the light is about 200 lumens using only (a measured and verified) 2.5 watts. Why the big difference in efficiency, since the color temp is roughly the same? FWIW, I have a couple of those on constantly as well as they illuminate without drawing attention to the area.

[abbrewer]

Originally Posted by mrs whodunit

I buy our LED's at Costco.

Ya, the Costco ones are cheap, but not only do they flicker a little sometimes, there's other downsides.

LEDs do something called color shift. Over time, the color on them changes. Cheap LEDs change color very rapidly (sometimes within months), to the point that you can have five right next to each other and they are all different colors.

Also, the promise of LEDs lasting "decades" is very conditional. Each light bulb/fixture has a ballast like the fluorescents, buy it's called a driver with LEDs. The cheap LED lamps use a cheap driver which fails rapidly. In fact, the driver is almost always what fails with LEDs.

The LED itself almost never dies, but the light levels output by them goes down slowly over time.

Again, this is why you should buy "good" LEDs. You can spend $20 each on the phillips, and chances are it will still be running 5 years from now with good light output still, or get 3 for $20 of no name and you will be lucky if they're running two years from now, and if they are they will most likely be different colours and put out a fraction of the light they did at the beginning.

[TRAILRIDER]

I guess the only thing "not to like" is putting the fixture in the landfill in 25 years. Or maybe I am not understanding the sales man correctly. He said "you don't change the bulb, you change the fixture, but they last 25 years." Is that right? I confess, I have not actually opened the box and examined the fixture yet.

I am just used to regular old incandescent light fixtures that bulbs burn out and you just screw another in its place : )

[farmrbrown]

Originally Posted by TRAILRIDER

I guess the only thing "not to like" is putting the fixture in the landfill in 25 years. Or maybe I am not understanding the sales man correctly. He said "you don't change the bulb, you change the fixture, but they last 25 years." Is that right? I confess, I have not actually opened the box and examined the fixture yet.

I am just used to regular old incandescent light fixtures that bulbs burn out and you just screw another in its place : )

He's right more or less.
LED's run on DC. To use in a home, the most practical way is to make the fixtures with a AC to DC transformer built in. You can usually replace the LED bulbs easily if it's the same style and voltage.
If not, then the next light you buy would come with its own transformer as well.

[abbrewer]

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

"
OK, this one is a bit of a puzzle that I haven't researched to figure out. I have a Philips LED over the kitchen sink that is constant on (something I don't dare do with CFLs because the ballasts can burn up). It takes roughly 14 watts, IIRC. Last fall I bought a few outdoor LED bank lights (Array of LEDs to act as a floodlight) and the light is about 200 lumens using only (a measured and verified) 2.5 watts. Why the big difference in efficiency, since the color temp is roughly the same? FWIW, I have a couple of those on constantly as well as they illuminate without drawing attention to the area.

The phillips aren't the most efficient LEDs on the market, but they're pretty darn good.

I would be very skeptical about 200 lumens coming out of 2.5 watts. That gives you a lumen per watt (L/W) rating of around 85 L/W. Everything on the market (that is reasonably priced anyway) is 30-50 L/W. I would say that if either your electrical meter isn't entirely accurate, or the 200lumen fixture had some false advertising. Or you spent $800 on that LED array.

[abbrewer]

Originally Posted by TRAILRIDER

I guess the only thing "not to like" is putting the fixture in the landfill in 25 years. Or maybe I am not understanding the sales man correctly. He said "you don't change the bulb, you change the fixture, but they last 25 years." Is that right? I confess, I have not actually opened the box and examined the fixture yet.

I am just used to regular old incandescent light fixtures that bulbs burn out and you just screw another in its place : )

Very true. They will start ending up in the landfill. Again however, how many normal light bulbs (plus manufacturing material costs and electrical environmental costs) will you go through before that LED fails?
Also, there are more and more LED retrofit kits to fit existing LED fixtures.

25 years is promising a lot. I wouldn't believe that. Maybe ten. Again, there's that light depreciation. So maybe it is working in 25 years. Your probably only going to have 50% of the light coming out of it compared to new. Are you going to be happy with that?

There's as much misrepresentation with LEDs as there is promise!

[michael ark]

I am looking at replaceing my 4 ft shop lights with these.http://www.e-conolight.com/shop-by-p...-cc4l03cz.html
Has anyone used them before?

[a'ightthen]

As usual, it depends on the application.

I have found all kinds of stuff that I had thought lost in the barn since installing this single high bay LED 24" fixture.



Other side has fluorescent ...a bit expensive ( $200+) but by gosh

Yes, it creates more work for me ... but it ain't all bad. The savings in "found" stuff will suffice

[Harry Chickpea]

Originally Posted by abbrewer

The phillips aren't the most efficient LEDs on the market, but they're pretty darn good.

I would be very skeptical about 200 lumens coming out of 2.5 watts. That gives you a lumen per watt (L/W) rating of around 85 L/W. Everything on the market (that is reasonably priced anyway) is 30-50 L/W. I would say that if either your electrical meter isn't entirely accurate, or the 200lumen fixture had some false advertising. Or you spent $800 on that LED array.

I was very skeptical myself. It ain't my meter, and they are bright. In addition to a Kill-a-watt, I have about a dozen radio shack and harbor freight digitals and my dad's old analog Simpson. I noticed that the lamps disappeared from store shelves quickly and aren't listed or even found with a google search.

[a'ightthen]

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

I was very skeptical myself. It ain't my meter, and they are bright. In addition to a Kill-a-watt, I have about a dozen radio shack and harbor freight digitals and my dad's old analog Simpson. I noticed that the lamps disappeared from store shelves quickly and aren't listed or even found with a google search.

Cooper Lighting ( now owned by Eaton as is Cutler Hammer) is running on the cutting edge of LEDs.

Old analog Simpson = good stuff. Radio Shack all but disappeared many moons ago ( and I dang sure miss them). Harbor ... useless if it has a cord or leads coming out of it.

Extech was good stuff ... just got bought out by Fluke. I assume for eliminating the comp.

[abbrewer]

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

I was very skeptical myself. It ain't my meter, and they are bright. In addition to a Kill-a-watt, I will about a dozen radio shack and harbor freight digitals and my dad's old analog Simpson. I noticed that the lamps disappeared from store shelves quickly and aren't listed or even found with a google search.

They might be over driving the LEDs. You can pump more power through them than they are designed for. Similar to "over clocking" a computer to get it to run faster. You can get way more light out of the LED at the expense of lifespan. And we're talking significantly less life. I've seen some fixtures that blew me away with the light output, and failed in six months. Not saying these will fail right away (especially if you live in a colder climate and they are outside), but that's probably what's going on then.

As well, I'm sure they don't have the electronics to allow them to dim properly. Something the Philips does very well. Those electronics use a little electricity as well.

[oregon woodsmok]

So far so good with them.

I've heard so many claims for light bulbs that are just nothing but lies, that I will delay judgement on them. But so far, they've been fine.

[Jim-mi]

A LED does not flicker--------if it is fed clean DC.
With this exploding market for LED's you can rest assured that less than honorable idiots will come out with----junk . . . . . . .so some folks will get that junk and then condem the whole LED thing.
So yes cutting corners on the power supply to the LED's . . they will "flicker" . . . .a bad thing.
I have a 20 LED bulb powered right from a 12v battery . . . .solid as can be . .and it has been on for more than Five years.......

Yes the "Good stuff" works great