The best way to be prepared is to start a farm

[ET1 SS]

http://online.wsj.com/article/APa800...6cfeca248.html



Here is a story to be inspired about. Those hoping to become organic farmers in New York can take advantage of a new state program intended to support agriculture.

The Beginning Farmers Fund will provide new farmers with grants of up to $50,000. Organic farmers and those who plan to grow specialty crops will be given priority for the grants.

Here in our state the number of farms is growing every year, and the average age of farmers has began to drop. Younger farmers are getting into it

Hopefully with programs like this we will be seeing more farms down South.

[TheMartianChick]

I live in NY and we are definitely seeing an increase in younger farmers at the local farmer's markets. Many are of the homesteading mindset, while others are just looking to control their own food. There is an awareness here that is quite refreshing. There are also a lot of people who are interested in buying organic, especially in enclaves near the colleges and universities. The more people learn, the more they want to "know" their farmers!

[GunMonkeyIntl]

I wonder if it would be worth it with all of the headaches of having to be certified-organic.

Too, I wonder how the people of NY feel about being forced to throw their money behind organic farming. It's not like they are exactly sitting on huge surpluses. Beside, if the people really want to support organic farming, couldn't they just, say, buy some organic vegetables?

[TheMartianChick]

In NY, the term organic doesn't always mean what it SHOULD mean. For that reason, more people want to grow their own. I think that a lot of CNY and Upstate NY folks are willing to support organic because we've always had a farming industry and we see it as just another business. There are all sorts of tax breaks and incentives for those who opt to start other types of businesses... An agricultural venture is just another job creator.

When a farmer tries to apply for some of the other incentives available in NY, they often have to deal with folks with no agricultural experience. With these programs, the money is set aside for organic agriculture and the people handling the applications actually have a clue about what is needed. They are better able to vet the applications.

While many of the organic farms are small and don't hire a whole lot of people, they do free up jobs for others to take. Most NY jobs are created by small businesses and not the big companies.

[ET1 SS]

Originally Posted by TheMartianChick

In NY, the term organic doesn't always mean what it SHOULD mean. For that reason, more people want to grow their own. I think that a lot of CNY and Upstate NY folks are willing to support organic because we've always had a farming industry and we see it as just another business. There are all sorts of tax breaks and incentives for those who opt to start other types of businesses... An agricultural venture is just another job creator. ...

It is that way everywhere.

We have 'Organic' and then we have 'Certified Organic'.

Some farms go through the process to become CO, and some do not.

If you are buying from a grocery store, and you have no idea who the farmer is, then CO is more important, perhaps.

But if you buy from a CSA, of directly from the farmer; then you are developing a relationship with the farm. When you visit the farm you see what is going on. Most farms here participate in Open Farm Tour events stateside.

[light rain]

I like the sounds of it, more organic practices and encouraging young folks into the business. I do have more questions though and the link was very abbreviated. Will this open up the farms to unannounced visits by governmental authorities? Are these grants being given to just American citizens or are they available foreign entities as well?

I see the recurring ad for encouraging new business in NY and the tax breaks while my husband watches... Fox News and I wonder how the current businesses fighting high taxes and the economy feel about it.

I also wonder if these incentives are being given to foreign entities. I know that I step on toes at HT sometimes, but I am just trying to understand the world around me and to voice my opinion. Informed, intelligent or not.

[TheMartianChick]

I don't have a definitive answer to your question, Light Rain, but I can tell you what is likely:

I worked for many years as a small business consultant. Any clients who walked in were advised to form an LLC or an S-Corp to protect them personally from liability issues that might arise. For that reason, I suspect that a foreign entity could take advantage of the subsidies and tax breaks. As Mitt Romney said, 'Corporations are people, too!' Once a corporation has been created and receives a tax id number, it can apply for just about anything. Some of the largest and best known American brands are no longer American owned! Anhueser Busch is one that comes to mind immediately. All of the larger companies take advantage of all sorts of government tax breaks, etc... to keep jobs in the US and to create new jobs. The problem is that many of them just keep the same number of employees and re-hire them under a different arm of the business. NY has seen its share lousy Empire Zone deals in which that has happened.

[bigjon]

Hmmm,free money-from n.y.?been here all my life.i don't use weed killers,i do use ORGANIC bug killers.dear god no,i don't want to be certified organic.i don't want n.y. money.take the money-their now a partner sorta.....just my opinion.

[TheMartianChick]

You might have a point, bigjon! I deal with NY State in order to keep quail. Once per year, I endured an inspection which allows me to renew my license. The rules have since changed, and I only have to be inspected every 3 or 4 years. (I forget which.) For certified organic in NY, I think it requires signing up and then remaining chemical free for a few years. After that... Poof! You're certified! They don't seem to check the soil for prior uses or anything.

[PrettyPaisley]

I'm down south and I wouldn't take a grant if you gave it to me. Or a tax exempt number, either. I can do it alone - or at least without the assistance of the gov't. Especially when they can track every egg that is laid. No. Thank. You.

People should farm because it's the right thing to do. It's the right thing to do for the earth, for their kids, for the butterfiles and bees and for their health. It's the right thing to do for their community. Turn off the $&#^$(% Americal Idol/Real Housewives crap and get outside and grow some food.

[DEKE01]

Originally Posted by PrettyPaisley

I'm down south and I wouldn't take a grant if you gave it to me. Or a tax exempt number, either. I can do it alone - or at least without the assistance of the gov't. Especially when they can track every egg that is laid. No. Thank. You.

People should farm because it's the right thing to do. It's the right thing to do for the earth, for their kids, for the butterfiles and bees and for their health. It's the right thing to do for their community. Turn off the $&#^$(% Americal Idol/Real Housewives crap and get outside and grow some food.

This program reminds me of a Reagan quote: Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

[geo in mi]

http://www.beginningfarmers.org/funding-resources/

It looks like this NY program is so new yet that the Beginning Farmers Organization has not been able to update the details. There are lots of beginning farmers funding opportunities listed by state, but New York isn't mentioned. Most of the other funds involve loan programs.

It is really interesting, though, if you do some reading in the Beginning Farmers website(and Facebook page), to see the many subjects they offer--many along the lines of getting started--some organic, some not--but nonetheless, very interesting and worth a read. Something might interest you.

geo

[Twobottom]

I don't want the government on my farm. I think we'd all be much better off if the government didnt take the 50k subsidy money from the taxpayers in the first place. That way, if people WANT to support a farm, they'll have the money to do it.

[ET1 SS]

Originally Posted by TheMartianChick

You might have a point, bigjon! I deal with NY State in order to keep quail. Once per year, I endured an inspection which allows me to renew my license. The rules have since changed, and I only have to be inspected every 3 or 4 years. (I forget which.) For certified organic in NY, I think it requires signing up and then remaining chemical free for a few years. After that... Poof! You're certified! They don't seem to check the soil for prior uses or anything.

In this state, Organic Certification is done by a private group. Really two groups, the first is non-profit and they are active in politics. The second group is a LLC owned by the first group, they focus on training and certifications. I sit on the board of the first group.

Inspections are a minimum once/year, plus they may want to be present during specific critical stages of the process. Soil is not checked for prior uses.

Originally Posted by PrettyPaisley

... People should farm because it's the right thing to do. It's the right thing to do for the earth, for their kids, for the butterfiles and bees and for their health. It's the right thing to do for their community. Turn off the $&#^$(% Americal Idol/Real Housewives crap and get outside and grow some food.

I agree.

IMHO, we need more food-producers. A culture where less than 1% produces the food, is not a sustainable culture. Currently we seem to be managing, but, ...

If/when the flow of petroleum stops, then suddenly our current system of food production will stop.

If/when anything happens to disturb our synthetic chemical herbicide and pesticide industry, then suddenly our current system of food production will stop.



We should be farming because it's the right thing to do.

For our health, and that of our earth, our kids, the butterfiles and bees; we all need to be focusing on organic food production. Rather than using so much toxins in our food production.

It is the right thing to do for their community.

[light rain]

I agree that we need to increase the number of farmers in America. And especially in the organic, self-sufficient group. I think a lot of people in agriculture have bought into the theory that it is the responsibility of the American farmer to feed the world. While I would not want to curtail anyone from selling their harvest as they see fit, I wonder if the premise of feeding the world justifies using modern fertilizer, any and all legal herbicides and pesticides, and the water so vitally necessary to grow food.

If the people in the drought ravaged areas do not curtail their birthrate and try to improve the productivity of their earth how can America continue to meet this international need/dependency?

[ET1 SS]

Originally Posted by light rain

I agree that we need to increase the number of farmers in America. And especially in the organic, self-sufficient group.

I agree.

... I think a lot of people in agriculture have bought into the theory that it is the responsibility of the American farmer to feed the world.

It goes with being the World Police, the all nations financial support, and safe-zone for all oppressed peoples.

... While I would not want to curtail anyone from selling their harvest as they see fit, I wonder if the premise of feeding the world justifies using modern fertilizer, any and all legal herbicides and pesticides, and the water so vitally necessary to grow food.

Maybe?

... If the people in the drought ravaged areas do not curtail their birthrate and try to improve the productivity of their earth how can America continue to meet this international need/dependency?

At least in the USA, we see cities growing by leaps, while they are located in the worst arid regions. I doubt if high percentages of residents were born there.

I know of such community in the USA, that one generation ago could not support one family. Today over 1.8 Million people live there. They all migrated.

[hengal]

Originally Posted by PrettyPaisley

I'm down south and I wouldn't take a grant if you gave it to me. Or a tax exempt number, either. I can do it alone - or at least without the assistance of the gov't. Especially when they can track every egg that is laid. No. Thank. You.

People should farm because it's the right thing to do. It's the right thing to do for the earth, for their kids, for the butterfiles and bees and for their health. It's the right thing to do for their community. Turn off the $&#^$(% Americal Idol/Real Housewives crap and get outside and grow some food.

I was thinking this very same thing when reading. I would do all I could on my own without the govt getting involved. Maybe I've become cynical or just more aware, but there is no free lunch when it come to the powers that be in Washington. They help you out now, they have you for good in one way or the other.

[geo in mi]

Originally Posted by light rain

I agree that we need to increase the number of farmers in America. And especially in the organic, self-sufficient group. I think a lot of people in agriculture have bought into the theory that it is the responsibility of the American farmer to feed the world. While I would not want to curtail anyone from selling their harvest as they see fit, I wonder if the premise of feeding the world justifies using modern fertilizer, any and all legal herbicides and pesticides, and the water so vitally necessary to grow food.

If the people in the drought ravaged areas do not curtail their birthrate and try to improve the productivity of their earth how can America continue to meet this international need/dependency?

The notion that America feeds the world, or that the world will face starvation if America doesn't feed the world in the future, doesn't hold up in the light of the facts of world-wide food production already. Wikepedia has condensed world crop production into graph form from the United Nations which gathers statistics around the world each year for most of the crops produced (See http://faostat.fao.org/)

The Wikipedia charts rank the US in only one or two commodities as the leader, corn/maize being one of them, along with soybeans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest...al_commodities

Just "food" for thought.

geo

[light rain]

Thank you geo in mi for the links. I went to the wiki site and learned a lot. I wish that they had also given % of how much was exported. With China and India having such large populations most of the grains and vegetables that they grow could stay inside their borders.

I did not access the info from the U.N. because what info they do give out does not hold much weight with me. Do you trust the veracity and ideologies of the U.N. ?

[geo in mi]

Originally Posted by light rain

Thank you geo in mi for the links. I went to the wiki site and learned a lot. I wish that they had also given % of how much was exported. With China and India having such large populations most of the grains and vegetables that they grow could stay inside their borders.

I did not access the info from the U.N. because what info they do give out does not hold much weight with me. Do you trust the veracity and ideologies of the U.N. ?

Maybe a slight bit more than Archer, Daniels, Midland.......

geo