Buying land with unpermitted cabin on it - problem?

[cjean]

Does anyone have experience or knowledge with something like this? If we bought a small remote lot that had a recreational cabin on it, that was built without a county building permit, could the county make us tear it down? I realize it might be different laws in different areas.

[DaleK]

You need to make sure you have a lawyer do the deal for you and do the due diligence on it.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Are there county building permits? There aren't county requirements in either place where I own property. Septic.... yes. Building.... no.

Make some phone calls.

[wharton]

First, nobody here has that answer, many will give you one, based on what they think would, should, or could happen, but only you can determine how much risk this is, and the likely worst case scenario. Next, you need to be very careful on how you proceed. Calling the county offices, asking for the zoning officer and saying, "We would like to buy the old Johnson place, but it appears to have an illegal cabin on it, is this going to be an issue?" will not end well.

I have found that the best way to handle this one is to find out who the oldest, most experienced land lawyer in the county is. In my county I never do a deal without my old gray fox of a lawyer. He is the elder statesman of the local trade, and knows that there are three ways to do anything. #1. by follow the letter of the law 110%, #2. by means and methods that are illegal and/ or unethical and nothing he would have anything to do with. #3 the middle ground. This is the place where the entire local community does business, and as an outsider you don't have any access to.

This is the kind of guy who knows if this cabin is a real issue and a deal breaker, an issue that the county would really rather not deal with, or if it's something that is common, and nobody cares. Find this guy, throw the whole mess in his lap, and let him work it out. Good luck.

[Molly Mckee]

Yes they can and probably will. Most WA counties have pretty strict building codes. They also have a program called "eye in the sky". Every part of WA is photographed from the air every couple of years and many of the local governments use the photo's to be sure nothing is built without proper permits and taxes paid.

Our neighbor decided not to spend the money on permits for his house. The county waited until it was almost finished to show up and gave him the choice between paying the fees, fines, and opening everything up for inspection or tearing it down. Being very stubborn, he tore it down. If he had not, the county would have torn it down and charged him.

If you really want the property, I would talk to the county about what they require to make things right, and make the seller do it. I believe that the seller has to sign a statement at closing that everything is legally built. I doubt that you could get a mortgage on a property that is not permitted. Even if you pay cash, you might want to sell some day. No one needs that kind of problems.

[Ziptie]

Here the county does the "eye in the sky" every year (of course in the winter). I wonder if there is any kind of grandfather clause if it has been there for so many years and the county has not said anything about it then all is well...Just an idea.

[logbuilder]

I'm in Skagit county WA. We can build a structure without permits as long as it is 200 sq ft or less. My cabin is 14x14 which equals 196 sw ft. How big is the cabin on this land?

[oneraddad]

Don't ask questions and go on your way. Bringing attention to your situation is not what you should do. Let them approach you, it might never happen, I'm going on 9 years.

[logbuilder]

In the state of WA the seller must complete a series of questions for the prospective buyer. One of those is whether there has been any work done without permits for which there should have been. If they lie and it turns out the county comes after you, they will have some liability in the situation.

Here is the actual statute. It contains all the questions the seller has to disclose. Usually it is available when you first look at a property. You should get this completed form from the seller before contract.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.06.020

[GoldenCityMuse]

lorichristie on here might be able to help you some. SHe is in that area.

[ET1 SS]

If nobody cares, then nobody cares.

If anyone whines, then it will force TPTB to take action.

Keep your head down, your lips sealed and you should be fine.

You may want to walk into your county planning / zoning office, and ask then for detail zoning regs for your land. They will tell you everything that they know about your land. I would not say a word about the cabin though.

Besides it is your land, you really should hold a copy of the zoning regs for it.

[cjean]

Okay, I appreciate everyone's input and ideas.
To answer a few questions: Yes, the county does have building codes, and this cabin is over the sq ft limit allowed for an unpermitted building, but this county is one that usually doesn't enforce much unless someone complains. So, I tend to agree with those of you that suggest not drawing unnecessary attention.

Also, the cabin wasn't built with residential intent. It has alternative power (12v) and no well, which the county doesn't have regulations for anyway. They wouldn't have given a permit for such a building.

So, I was wondering if anyone has ever had to actually tear down a building, or if the county has legal rights to come onto private property and destroy a building.

[JohnP]

They would tell you to remove it first and if you didn't then the fines would start. Depending on the place and situation fines can be hundreds per day.

I would make sure you negotiate the price down to include the possible future charges involved in removing the cabin and then hope you don't have to.

[jassytoo]

Get a lawyer and do it right. Odds are in the future it will come back and bite you in the butt if you don't.

[Molly Mckee]

Why make it your problem? Sooner or later the county is going to do something about it or you will want to sell it. It's hard to believe that a county on the west side is going to be more lenient than Spokane county.

[edcopp]

Everybody needs a storage shed to keep their extra stuff in.

[snoozy]

Don't pay for it...by which I mean, if you want the land, pay for the land at the rate of bare land. An illegal structure is not "enhanced value". It is, no matter how well-built, a possible liability, something which you may have to pay to remove.

[TheMartianChick]

When something is installed without proper permits, there might be an opportunity to pay for all of the proper permits after the fact and maybe a fine to make it right. With a cabin or other livable structure, there are inspections that some municipalities require before walls are enclosed and to verify that the proper thickness of concrete was installed on footings and foundations. Once things are enclosed or fully built, it can be difficult for those inspections to happen.

If you want to buy the property, then you should put a clause in the purchase offer stating that the sale is contingent upon straightening out the legalities of the illegal structure and/or getting a variance issued by the municipality to allow the property to remain in its current state without repercussions. The current property owner should apply for the variance and be prepared to fight to have the cabin remain.

One other option would be to negotiate the purchase of the property minus the value of the structure. If you do that, you should be aware that you may be required to tear it down, should the local municipality declare it to be illegal. Of course, the cost of demolition would fall to you!

I serve on my local Board of Zoning Appeals and we see lots of cases like this involving illegal driveways, apartments and porches. If you are currently the property owner, you are essentially in the position of begging for forgiveness for your past misdeeds. Not all boards feel inclined to grant that forgiveness or a variance.

[Yvonne's hubby]

An unpermitted building carries a negative value with it. If you buy this property you should figure that into the purchace price. How much is it going to cost you to either get it legit or have it disposed of... if the land is worth the asking price without the building then see what the regs are about bonfires.if you end up having to remove it what will that cost?

[CrazyMooseFarm]

Sounds like reccreational parcel. You cant live year round on those. If there is a military base in the county or a training area for them, or weapons testing site, then thry know its there and most likely the state knows too.