Windows or insulation??

[littlebitfarm]

I've got a ranch home built in the 60's. Original windows. Single pane with storms. Also original insulation in walls and attic. I can replace the windows for about the same cost as insulating the attic and foaming in the crawl space.

What will give me the biggest bang (reduction in utilities) for my buck??

Thanks!

[whiterock]

I would guess better insulation.

[jwal10]

I would say insulation also. How much is in the attic now? You do have storm windows already. How big are the windows and how many? Any insulation in the crawl space now? If so and in good condition, I would add insulation in the attic. Replace the biggest windows first and caulk any where air is getting in....James

[Wolf mom]

In AZ, the agency called Weatherization that replaces furnaces and does other helpful weatherizing things for the poor & elderly no longer upgrades windows as they say the pay back time is too long.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Add attic insulation and put film on the windows in the winter.

http://www.amazon.com/Duck-281506-10...insulation+kit

[mnn2501]

I would go for the windows myself, the reduction in heating and cooling will be comparable to insulation from the single panes you have (due to heat/ac loss through the surface area) and you'll increase the value of the home more than the insulation would.

[Glacialtill]

First, I'd look into getting an energy audit. Here in Western MA, you can get someone to come out for free as they are subsidized by the power companies. They'll do an inspection of the house and give you feedback on the problems and recommend solutions. Around here you can get rebates that pay for part of insulation/weatherproofing work and also no-interest loans to pay for some equipment upgrades.

Here' a basic overview: http://energy.gov/public-services/ho...-energy-audits

That said, I've heard that well maintained older windows with well maintained storms are almost as efficient as replacement windows. And the energy saving payback from replacements is something ridiculous like 40 years to recoup your installation cost.

Lots of great info here from the Park Service. Technical Preservation Briefs:

http://www.nps.gov/tps/sustainabilit...dows-doors.htm

We've got a 1890's house and after this endless winter, I'm finally getting around to tightening up this old shipwreck for next year.

Hoping other people will chime in on this topic.

Paul

[Nimrod]

Get an energy audit if one is available for free or cheaply. If not, you can wait for a windy day and check for air leaks on the side of the house the wind is hitting. Repeat on other days when the wind is coming from different directions. The smoke from a lit cigarette will show where there is an air leak. Spiders will build their webs where there is moving air so the webs indicate where there are air leaks. Of course you don't have any spider webs in your house, do you?

I would spend a few hundred dollars and caulk the windows and put the plastic film over them. Be sure to check for leaks around the interior trim too. If you have the old sash system counterbalanced with the rope and weights you can cut the rope and put metal pieces from the hardware in the tracks so the sashes stay up by friction. Then fill the cavity the weight is in with insulation. Many old windows have a little door in the frame you can remove to get at the weights.

Seal any air leaks to the attic, usually around any penetrations like plumbing and the chimney. Then insulate as much as the budget allows.

[michael ark]

I would say windows first. Then start buying a bag of cellouse every month. Then blow it in yourself. They rent the machines to blow it in at Lowe's. Stop the drafts then keep the warmth.

[SolarGary]

Originally Posted by littlebitfarm

I've got a ranch home built in the 60's. Original windows. Single pane with storms. Also original insulation in walls and attic. I can replace the windows for about the same cost as insulating the attic and foaming in the crawl space.

What will give me the biggest bang (reduction in utilities) for my buck??

Thanks!

Hi,

You can run this heat loss calculator and get a pretty good idea:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Referenc...sulUpgrade.htm

for example, upgrading 1500 sf of attic insulation from R6 to R30 would in a 5000 heating degree day climate with gas heat at $1.50 a therm would save you $450 a year.

Upgrading 200 sf of windows from R2 (single plus storm) to R3 (low e double glazed) for the same house would save you $75 a year.
This does not count any better air sealing benefit that the new windows might have.

If you can get an audit, they would run the numbers on the best payoff stuff.

Seems like the general "expert" advice out there would say that in most cases you would be better off doing the insulation.
The attic insulation is a pretty easy DIY job -- two people can blow lots of cellulose in an attic in an afternoon.
Good to seal all the wire, plumbing, ... penetrations into the attic from the living space before you insulate as its important and hard to do after you have 20 inches of new cellulose up there.

Gary

[MichaelZ]

Insulate the attic, and plastic up the windows for now. The money you will save in heat will pay for the windows. If you go the window route first, you will still lose a lot of heat via your attic. But plastic on windows will make them perform nearly as good as any new window since all leakage is stopped and you are adding a dead air space.

And make sure to keep your receipts for taxes!

[littlebitfarm]

This is a house that I rent out. I do realize that new windows adds to it's value more than insulation. Putting film on the windows would be up to the renters. These are pretty good renters, been there 3 years with only 1 minor repair on my part. I would sort of like to reward them and thought insulation might be the way to go.

There is a program with the local utility that will pay part of it. With the windows I would be paying full price for the window but would get a deal on the installation from another renter that does it for a living. So either way I can stretch my $$$!

[littlebitfarm]

Originally Posted by SolarGary

Hi,

Good to seal all the wire, plumbing, ... penetrations into the attic from the living space before you insulate as its important and hard to do after you have 20 inches of new cellulose up there.

Gary

When sealing the penetrations, do you just use the cans of spray foam right over the box and wiring?

[MO_cows]

The biggest difference you can make in your house is to add a bunch of insulation in the attic. Been there, done that. We put vinyl siding on our house with foamboard insulation underneath, replaced all our old, loose fitting, drafty single pane windows with double pane. But later on, when we put over a foot of blown insulation into the attic, the comfort factor was even more noticeable and the insulation only cost us around $300.

Our house is old (1930's), has zero insulation inside the walls except kitchen and bathroom.

Insulate the attic first, then see how much else you need to spend.

Originally Posted by MO_cows

The biggest difference you can make in your house is to add a bunch of insulation in the attic. Been there, done that. We put vinyl siding on our house with foamboard insulation underneath, replaced all our old, loose fitting, drafty single pane windows with double pane. But later on, when we put over a foot of blown insulation into the attic, the comfort factor was even more noticeable and the insulation only cost us around $300.

Our house is old (1930's), has zero insulation inside the walls except kitchen and bathroom.

Insulate the attic first, then see how much else you need to spend.

Just curious , why didn't you blow insulation in the walls before adding the vinyl siding ?

[DAVID In Wisconsin]

When I buy a house the first thing I generally do is replace the windows. It makes a big difference in the comfort of the home for tenants. This also makes the home a bit more valuable and easier to sell if when the time comes. Good luck!

[MO_cows]

Originally Posted by WV Hillbilly

Just curious , why didn't you blow insulation in the walls before adding the vinyl siding ?

Because insurance co was on us about the look of the old clapboards. We needed the cosmetic improvement of the siding ASAP.

We intended to take the plaster and lath out of every room, put up sheetrock and add insulation as we opened up the stud cavities, but only the kitchen and bathroom actually got done. Life happens.

[Maura]

Windows because of resale value and loss of frustration over the storms.

Many single pane windows are fine. What happens is the wood shrinks and pulls away from the building creating a space. When you replace the windows, whether with double pane or single pane, you reduce the heat loss because the windows will now be tight.

I suggest Polar Seal windows.

[KIT.S]

In Oregon it is not suggested to insulate under the house. We were just moved down from Alaska and never even considered not insulating in the crawlspace, and ended up with wood-eating ants and termites. Apparently they love living in insulation. Huh, in AK we don't have to worry about bugs - they freeze, so who knew?
Also, here we can get any size of new double-pane vinyl window for $99 each at a discount reseller's. I even replaced 6' X 10' windows for $99 each. So we usually go for the windows first, filling and sealing the surrounding areas as we go. It's easy to do ourselves and makes a huge visual difference, too.
I do see how the actual numbers favor attic insulation, although I did find it hard to give up the attic storage space.
Kit

[huisjen]

Go with the insulation, hands down. Foam on the inside and bug shields on the outside.