Living away from property with livestock

rinadav7 · #1 03/08/14, 09:15 PM

We are planning a move back to Missouri right now, and have decided that continuing to homeschool our kids while fulfilling my dream of homesteading can now happen! But we need to spend time in a suburban area a couple nights a week for religious reasons. We are trying to decide whether we buy the homestead first while renting a small apartment in the suburbs, or to buy a small home in the suburbs and a lot of 15+ acres with no house on it first. I am too impatient to wait for animals (planning to start with broilers, laying hens and goats) until we could build a house on that lot. If we went with a lot of land instead of a homestead with an existing house, what are my options? Can we have animals out there withe a LGD at night, and feel at all sure that they will still be there in the morning? Is it a crazy idea to buy an old RV and park it out there, for the nights when a goat is kidding and we need to be close by? I absolutely want to move straight to a homestead, but my husband prefers the other option. Thoughts?

big rockpile · #2 03/08/14, 09:40 PM

I hate leaving any animals alone too long a time because so much can happen. That being said I have been know to leave them alone as much as 4 days but worry every minute.

My wife is thinking of us staying at our Cabin for weekends so our animals will be alone unless we can pay someone.

big rockpile

lmrose · #3 03/09/14, 05:37 AM

We would never leave our animals unattended even over night.Goats can get out, get heads stuck in fences, freshen unexpectedly, and blat because they are lonely. If they have little ones nursing and too much milk the excess needs to be milked out. Whether goat or cow they need to be milked out daily dry to avoid problems. Sheep, goats, ducks, chickens are all subject to predators such as chicken hawks, foxes, coyotes and even bears if you have any in your area.

As soon as people realize you aren't around you may have your animals stolen. We had a neighbor who had two cows killed in his field and cut up with a chain saw. The thieves wanted meat apparently and never got caught because no one was around to see this happening!
Even horses can get in trouble when pastured and not looked in on daily. They can get spooked and jump fences. One of ours years ago got spooked by a loud noise. She plowed through a fence and stopped running three miles away later! She was found on someones lawn looking in their living room window!

Our nearest neighbor left her animals alone and the geese and ducks got out and were blocking the road along with her sheep! If animals cause a car accident too you could be sued and charged with neglect. Another neighbor had cattle that were spooked by lightning and thunder. Some went through a barb fence and into the road. Other people called the police and the neighbor was charged for not having his animals under control. He fought the case in court and LOST! Judge said he should have had better fences. Obviously the judge was not a farmer. Farmers know that no fence can contain an animal whose adrenalin is running because it was spooked!
It is never a good idea to have animals alone unattended. Too many things can go wrong. I would no more leave animals alone than I would my children when they were young.

1shotwade · #4 03/09/14, 06:04 AM

I was only going to say that animals need the same level of care as do children but the post about included that,which I agree with.I'm not big on the idea of having a lot of laws but some are needed because we are not all of the same knowledge/experience.
If you are a fisherman,the law requires that you check your trotlines every 24 hour.If you are a trapping the law requires you to check your traps every 24 hours.If you are a homesteader you should check your homestead every 24 hours.
If I have to leave even for over night I get someone to check in on my animals,and when I get home that's the first thing I do. They get fresh water and food before I do anything else,even unloading the vehicle,just like you would do if it were one of your kids..
With all that said, there are a few things you can go ahead and start doing in the suburbs that can start your homesteading lifestyle.Gardening,aquaponics,bees,rabbits, even chicken, which can be established and ready for the move to the country.
As for buying a house or bare land,that is a totally different subject that only you know how it will effect your situation.Hope this helps in some way1

Wade

rinadav7 · #5 03/09/14, 06:26 AM

Perfect, thank you! You all gave me exactly the right arguments to give my husband. Sometimes what you tell your husband isn't "true" until someone else says it. I will send a few of these responses to him, and that will solve the debate. Thanks y'all!

Alice In TX/MO · #6 03/09/14, 08:16 AM

I have neighbors and friends who are willing to watch over the goats and be relief milkers.

Conhntr · #7 03/09/14, 11:33 AM

I asked this same question when i was shopping.

What livestock is "self sufficent"

Now that i have a place and animals i understand that would never work. Waterers get clogged/knocked over/broken. Fences break etc. this morning i found a pig got a string from a strawbale wrapped around his leg. If that went for a day or two without me checking on him could be a dead pig!

Maura · #8 03/09/14, 03:44 PM

You need to be there, especially given that you have no experience. You don't really know how to keep our animals contained and watered until you have done it. You should start with six egg layers and six meat chickens. Or, a dozen larger egg layers, like Orpingtons or Rhode Island Reds. You get chicks in the mail, keep them in a cardboard box until they are big enough to go outside part of the day, and gradually keep them outside. You'll learn to keep the hen house farther from your house than you'd like so you don't have chickens pooping all over your porch. You'll learn why you need electric fencing around the hen house. Once you've mastered chickens you can think about other animals. Goats are escape artists and if you can't keep sheep in you'll never keep goats in, so start with a couple of meat lambs, butchering them in the fall. If you've done well with sheep, get your goats. At this point you'll be able to leave your chickens over night or even a couple of days.

Before you get an LGD, you need to know what your needs are so you can determine what kind of dog you want. With small acreage you probably don't really need a big LGD, just a good farm dog.

**highlands** · #9 03/09/14, 07:00 PM

I would be very hesitant to live away from our land and livestock. Probably problems per pests, predators and people. Whether I'm there or not, I definitely want (and have) livestock working dogs. They are invaluable.

65284 · #10 03/10/14, 01:57 PM

I suspect your worst problem would predators. The two legged variety.
It would be devastating to go to the farm and find your, ready to harvest livestock gone. Probably to some thiefs freezer.

rinadav7 · #11 03/10/14, 07:09 PM

Yeah, it wouldn't work. We realized we will need to partner with someone who will live on the land, rent-free, and milk our animals on our Sabbath/be our backup for nights that we can't be out there. A few of the properties we have looked at have small houses, with a second mobile home/modular home on the property, which we could offer to that person. Or build two cabins on the land. There seems to be no way for us to do it otherwise.

Awnry Abe · #12 03/10/14, 09:12 PM

First hand experience living 1 hour away from the farm. What works and what doesn't:

Fryers: yes.
Layers: no.
Beef: yes.
Dairy cattle : no
Dairy goats: no
Meat goats: yes.
Garden: yes

YMMV based on facilities, predators, thiefs, and really great neighbors. The most viable are the beef cattle. The least is anything that needs daily attention (dairy and eggs). What makes things really challenging are extreme weather, sickness/injury, and births.

Ernie · #13 03/11/14, 05:31 AM

I am really against living away from your stock. It's not good animal husbandry.

Fences fall down, animals get sick or hurt, predators come, water sources dry up or leak, inclement weather hits ... the list goes on and on for how it can go bad.

In my neck of the woods, there are many, many people who live away from their stock. They have no love for the task and simply raise the animals to make a profit or get the tax exemption. They write off the "losses" and only see that they lost a steer. They don't see nor care that the steer they lost limped around with a broken leg for six weeks before it finally died from infection and exposure.

Last year I saw four cows up the county road from me die from lack of water. The windmill that pumped into a small tank on the absentee landowner's property had broken and nobody knew about it until the cows showed up dead where they paced back and forth along a barbed wire fence for days staring at a pond full of water they couldn't get to (which was also on his property). The absentee landowner had no arrangements at all for those of us who live here to check on his livestock for him. Guess he didn't trust us "country bumpkins". (Probably for good reason ... if I'd have known his cattle were without water and didn't have a way of contacting him then I'd have cut his fence so they could get to that pond.)

Maura · #14 03/11/14, 02:15 PM

Are you sure about the milking on the Sabbath? You are required to care for your animals and milking is one of the things you have to do, just like supplying them with water.

Paumon · #15 03/11/14, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maura

Are you sure about the milking on the Sabbath? You are required to care for your animals and milking is one of the things you have to do, just like supplying them with water.

I think the OP is inferring that they need somebody else who is not of the same religion as them to care for the animals and do their milking for them on their sabbath. I'm guessing the OP and family are orthodox Jews so they would need a helper who is not a Jew and therefore has no religious restrictions about "working" with animals on the Jewish sabbath.

rinadav7 · #16 03/11/14, 07:58 PM

Yes, that is right, we are Orthodox. We can milk our animals on the Sabbath, just not benefit from the milk. The allowance to milk on the Sabbath is only for the comfort and care of the animals - as you said, milking an animal is like providing basic care. We have very strict laws regarding the humane treatment of animals, including a law that you are required to feed your animals morning and night before you sit down to feed yourself. I will need someone who is not Jewish to milk the animals Friday evenings and Saturday mornings, and on any Jewish holidays. Do you think if there is a second mobile home on the property (3 BR 1 Bath, nice, large) that I could trade someone free rent for the responsibility to care for and guard the animals when we can't?

Ernie · #17 03/11/14, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rinadav7

Yes, that is right, we are Orthodox. We can milk our animals on the Sabbath, just not benefit from the milk. The allowance to milk on the Sabbath is only for the comfort and care of the animals - as you said, milking an animal is like providing basic care. We have very strict laws regarding the humane treatment of animals, including a law that you are required to feed your animals morning and night before you sit down to feed yourself. I will need someone who is not Jewish to milk the animals Friday evenings and Saturday mornings, and on any Jewish holidays. Do you think if there is a second mobile home on the property (3 BR 1 Bath, nice, large) that I could trade someone free rent for the responsibility to care for and guard the animals when we can't?

That's ... excessive.

Just make some Gentile friends.

I'd happily come over on Friday evenings and Saturday mornings and any other day and I'd just take that day's milk in trade. I wouldn't need free room and board out of the deal.

Paumon · #18 03/11/14, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rinadav7

...... I will need someone who is not Jewish to milk the animals Friday evenings and Saturday mornings, and on any Jewish holidays. Do you think if there is a second mobile home on the property (3 BR 1 Bath, nice, large) that I could trade someone free rent for the responsibility to care for and guard the animals when we can't?

I think free rent is too generous an offer for someone to care for the animals for only a couple of days a week and holidays. Perhaps reduced rent would be better and I'd further suggest that renting to a responsible young family would be safer and more practical rather than renting to a single person.

texican · #19 03/11/14, 11:19 PM

I'd find a way to practice my religion at home.... but that's just me. Being away from my kingdom for a few days, regularly, would be my idea of hell on earth.

1shotwade · #20 03/12/14, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rinadav7

Yes, that is right, we are Orthodox. We can milk our animals on the Sabbath, just not benefit from the milk. The allowance to milk on the Sabbath is only for the comfort and care of the animals - as you said, milking an animal is like providing basic care. We have very strict laws regarding the humane treatment of animals, including a law that you are required to feed your animals morning and night before you sit down to feed yourself. I will need someone who is not Jewish to milk the animals Friday evenings and Saturday mornings, and on any Jewish holidays. Do you think if there is a second mobile home on the property (3 BR 1 Bath, nice, large) that I could trade someone free rent for the responsibility to care for and guard the animals when we can't?

Ya know, I don't think much of religious "Laws" but that sounds like just good animal husbandry! And "YES" the trade of labor/rent also makes sense.I am not saying an equal trade but just in the mix,maybe reduced rent or add other duties etc.

Wade