family land in texas

txred0810 · #1 01/21/14, 09:48 AM

Been lurking around here for a while and have done quite a few searches but I need some specific help from Texas people. We have some family land that we might flip over to Wildlife Valuation. We have always had people with cattle lease the grazing rights, but this has turned our land into an overgrazed, regrowth mesquite filled dump. Is there a way to make some money off the land thru farming, cattle, etc., that we could invest back into the property to keep the land in decent shape for the long term benefit of everyone? The catch to all of this is that we really only have time to spend weekends at the land. Any ideas that we could look into that you may be doing with your land? We are not looking to make a ton of money since we all have full time jobs, just something to break even (or minimal loss) that will in turn keep the land in good shape.

Alice In TX/MO · #2 01/21/14, 10:08 AM

Sending you a Private Message. I'm in south Texas.

txred0810 · #3 01/21/14, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Sending you a Private Message. I'm in south Texas.

Responded to your PM Alice.

whiterock · #4 01/21/14, 10:47 AM

Little more info please. Do you live nearby? What part of the state are you located in?

I'm takin back my pasture this year been rented out for about 23 years now and is same condition you describe.

Ed

txred0810 · #5 01/21/14, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiterock

Little more info please. Do you live nearby? What part of the state are you located in?

I'm takin back my pasture this year been rented out for about 23 years now and is same condition you describe.

Ed

We live about 1.5 hours and the in laws that will be helping live about an hour away. We are in Medina County. Yancey/D'hanis area.

whiterock · #6 01/21/14, 11:07 AM

Nice country down that way, and lots of people lookin to hunt there as well. I think the tax laws let you manage for wildlife and use it as Ag Exemption. Natural resourse folks at county level can help you with what to do in that area. Sorry, can't be more explicit. Check with county tax appraisal and find out about taxes and then with nat res, used to be the soil conservation service.

I live on my place, my kids and I plan to gradually fight the mesquite off the better land first and get a few head of beef cattle and grow into a small herd. Some areas may be goat fenced so that we can get some natural help with brush control. I will hit the small brush first with chemical, cut the bigger stuff and use for firewood and cooking, and spray the stumps, which will be cut down to ground level, as I said, long process. There is still some good grass in areas and that is where we will start, leaving the rougher ground for later.

If you clear and restock, working on weekends can be done, I've known folks that lived in cities during the week and then hauled out to the place on weekends, and kept a good sized herd going, easier down that way as the weather is warmer in winter. A good neighbor to keep an eye on things would help. When I was 14, i took care of an absentee owners cattle during the week, Dad would back me up if a problem showed up. Owner was out on Friday night and left on Sunday night.

Ed

txred0810 · #7 01/21/14, 11:14 AM

We have thought about going the Wildlife Valuation route for taxes but not sure yet. We also thought about raising some cattle of our own after we cleared about 50 acres and got a decent pasture established. The land is 180 acres total and the whitetail hunting is done by our family. We have also thought about getting that 50 acres in shape to lease out as a hay field if the lessee would fertilize and maintain but not sure of the economics of that agreement.

Buffy in Dallas · #8 01/21/14, 02:02 PM

After you get it cleared of the mesquite and got the pasture back in shape, I'd lean towards growing hay. If you get critters on there make sure you do some serious studying up on rotational grazing so it doesn't get into this shape again.

txred0810 · #9 01/21/14, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffy in Dallas

After you get it cleared of the mesquite and got the pasture back in shape, I'd lean towards growing hay. If you get critters on there make sure you do some serious studying up on rotational grazing so it doesn't get into this shape again.

That's where we are leaning. Believe me, if we had say 10 years ago in how the property should be leased out, it would never have got in this shape.

SteveD(TX) · #10 01/21/14, 04:30 PM

Find a local responsible rancher or farmer to take care of it and lease it to him. Make sure the lease requires responsible upkeep the way you want it but keep it reasonable. Then make sure it carries an ag exemption which will keep the taxes low.

TxMex · #11 01/21/14, 05:44 PM

Have you considered bees? That is something that you can manage on weekends, will improve the production of your land. Will use the mesquite that is there. Qualifies as agriculture and in fact you can get a tax exempt certificate for purchases related to your apiary.

I have finally, after 15 years, received my inherited ranch. It has been leased for cattle for all of that time as well. There is a lot of stuff I need to see to, but it could have been a lot worse. My main problem is running off the danged trespassers and everyone that has considered this their private preserve for all of the years that I was prevented from occupying my land. Do not get me started on evil trustees and how the law is skewed to protect them at the expense of the beneficiary in Texas!

bentleywarren · #12 01/21/14, 07:24 PM

One downside to raising hay (assuming that you sell it off farm) is that you are removing a lot of nutrients from the farm. Cattle tend to recycle a lot of the nutrients back on to the land through manure/urine while hay that is sold off-farm is a net loss.

fordy · #13 01/21/14, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txred0810

That's where we are leaning. Believe me, if we had say 10 years ago in how the property should be leased out, it would never have got in this shape.

............Do you possess mineral rights ? 3 or 4 wells on your property and you'll beable to afford lots of land cleanup ! one method used is for 2 large dozers to 'Chain' the surface , I.e. they drag a huge chain across the land and literally pull the trees out of the ground , then make piles , and burn when conditions are right . Mesquite use lots of subsurface moisture that beneficial grasses can use , cedars aren't much value as well . , fordy

txred0810 · #14 01/22/14, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bentleywarren

One downside to raising hay (assuming that you sell it off farm) is that you are removing a lot of nutrients from the farm. Cattle tend to recycle a lot of the nutrients back on to the land through manure/urine while hay that is sold off-farm is a net loss.

This is why we would try to get a long term agreement with someone that would fertilize when necessary to replace the nutrients lost. That might mean just giving them a free lease but not sure on the money aspect.

txred0810 · #15 01/22/14, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordy

............Do you possess mineral rights ? 3 or 4 wells on your property and you'll beable to afford lots of land cleanup ! one method used is for 2 large dozers to 'Chain' the surface , I.e. they drag a huge chain across the land and literally pull the trees out of the ground , then make piles , and burn when conditions are right . Mesquite use lots of subsurface moisture that beneficial grasses can use , cedars aren't much value as well . , fordy

We do possess mineral rights and currently have a well on the property. I have heard people talk about selling water rights on an open market but I have no clue how that works. Any chance you could enlighten me if this is what you are talking about?

My brother in law who will be helping is very handy on a dozer and would be willing to give his time for the land clearing.

fordy · #16 01/22/14, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txred0810

We do possess mineral rights and currently have a well on the property. I have heard people talk about selling water rights on an open market but I have no clue how that works. Any chance you could enlighten me if this is what you are talking about?

My brother in law who will be helping is very handy on a dozer and would be willing to give his time for the land clearing.

...............I have no idea what the going rate is per gallon , but , everything related to drilling , fracing and completion of oil\gas wells takes.....LOTS.....of water ! If , you agree to sell , they will come in , drill a well , and you'll have lots of trucks from all over the immediate area coming onto your property to 'fill up' ! Or , you could agree to just sell water for the operations related to the wells drilled on 'your' land . UNLESS , you need the money I'd forgo selling water . One last thought , It maybe to your advantage to let them drill a well , and sell water for the drilling and completion for wells 'ON' your 180 acres , otherwise , they will have to haul all the water in large tanker trucks onto your property which creates more caliche dust , and tears up the roads they have to build to get to the drilling pads . Selling water is very profitable , no question , but weigh all your options , before you sign a contract . Smart land\mineral owners always put a clause in the contract that gives them exclusive control and ownership of the water well when drilling operations are concluded , on your property ! Also , once operations are completed , the oil co. will Pull the Pump out of the well , you want a water well that is fully functional with pump in place and the electric supply lines left in place .
................Be very specific in defining the 'End of drilling operations' in the contract language , otherwise you only have partial control of the water well and who can purchase water . Oil companies are VERY sophisticated in how the language is composed in their contracts so as to give them as much leeway as possible . Therefore , they will be very vague rather than specific when they write their contracts . , fordy

Alice In TX/MO · #17 01/22/14, 08:49 AM

Good grief, do NOT sell water rights. Ever.

txred0810 · #18 01/22/14, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Good grief, do NOT sell water rights. Ever.

I don't think anybody in their right mind would sell water rights, but if there is a market for the lease of water that you do not use on your property, why would you not weigh your options?

andrew3d · #19 01/22/14, 11:05 AM

The local chief appraiser told me I could idle my land for up to 2 years without losing the ag exemption. If the land has been abused, overgrazed, I would definitely think you need to rest the land to let it heal. Talk to the appraiser in your area to see if you can idle the land for 1 or 2 years. I was told it was written in the law due to drought conditions, etc, that a person could rest their land. He did emphasize the max for idling the land was 2 years every so many years apart so you want to keep good records if he does say you can do it. And make sure you understand exactly how it works so no surprises later.

Ozarks Tom · #20 01/22/14, 11:43 AM

I don't know if it's still in force, but Texas used to have a "Mesquite Eradication" program, where the State would pay per acre to get rid of mesquite, with the proviso the stumps be killed. There a several companies who will come cut the trees, and kill the stumps, for the wood (they sell bbq chips & trunks for lumber). You make a little money from both directions. Make sure you specify the cutters stack and burn the trash.

I used to own a lumber mill just north of Dallas, specializing in mesquite, and bought truckloads of mesquite from your area by the pound. I used to pay .025/lb, so a 40,000 lb truck cost $1,000.

Check with the Texas Forest Products folks at Texas A&M, and they can most likely tell you everything you need to know, including some names of people in the mesquite business.