tankless/ instant water heaters

kandmcockrell · #1 01/19/14, 06:19 PM

Anyone have any dealings with instant water heaters? Looking for first hand info regarding the smaller ones, not the whole house ones. We will be putting in a water heater in a new kitchen and are wondering which would be better. A small tank or a tank-less? We could power with electric or natural gas.

NorthwoodsMike · #2 01/19/14, 06:21 PM

Do you have hard water? If so, I'd go with a tank model.

Maura · #3 01/19/14, 08:46 PM

We looked into this last year. We have an old radiant system with a boiler. We realized that it would be more efficient to have a water tank and let the boiler heat the water. If the unit is for one faucet and you don't have another source, or the source is too far from the kitchen, then a tankless may work. How fast do you like water to come out of the faucet and at what temperature? Answer that question then look at the little tankless water heaters.

Rectifier · #4 01/19/14, 11:25 PM

For the average family, a tank is actually more efficient. The cost of keeping the water warm is balanced out by the greater efficiency of the fire tube boiler. Add on top of that the tremendous cost differential between the units, and the fact that hard water will destroy a tankless in no time, and the old fashioned tank looks good fast.

The only really great use for the tankless is if you need a large supply of continuous hot water. Something like washing down dairy equipment. Even then, it's hard to justify the massive tankless unit required over simply a large tank.

LisaInN.Idaho · #5 01/19/14, 11:47 PM

We have a tankless in our bathroom and laundry room. The water gets plenty hot (we don't have hard water) and it's wonderful to never run out of hot water. Ours is a Bosch Aquastar (propane).

**Shrek** · #6 01/20/14, 04:18 AM

My maintenance man already has a model chosen for me when my tank heater finally dies. He said with my hot water branches only covering 18 feet, the $400 model he uses in his house with 30 feet of hot water lines will work wonderfully in my house with kitchen , bath and laundry in 2/3 of the water line area as his.

homstdr74 · #7 01/20/14, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LisaInN.Idaho

We have a tankless in our bathroom and laundry room. The water gets plenty hot (we don't have hot water) and it's wonderful to never run out of hot water. Ours is a Bosch Aquastar (propane).

I have also heard that hard water ruins the tankless heaters. Do you have hard water and, if so, have you noticed any decrease in water flow?

cowbelle · #8 01/20/14, 07:23 AM

I also have the Bosch Aquastar, propane, and love it. It's between the kitchen and bathroom, - about 10' one way, 15' the other. I have the one with a pilot light, my daughter has the one without the pilot. Both have worked well for close to five years now. No problems, except that my pilot light has blown out when we have horrendous north winds. Only 4 times, and it's pretty easy to relight. I got mine online from a site called "HouseNeeds" - if I remember correctly. Much better price than Home Depot here.

SJSFarm · #9 01/20/14, 07:33 AM

I clean for a lady with a tankless. It's located in her one bathroom on the first floor. The kitchen is only about 25 feet from the tank. It takes, literally, more than 5 minutes for the water to get warm! Not hot, warm! It's insane.

This is the only place I've been in with one. I'm NOT impressed.

kandmcockrell · #10 01/20/14, 08:58 AM

thanks for the input. It would be installed in the kitchen right under the sink and the dishwasher would be next to it. I will check to see if we have hard water. Not sure, i think we might. What is the best way to tell?

Alice In TX/MO · #11 01/20/14, 09:03 AM

The best way to tell if you have hard water is to look in your coffee pot. Is it crusted up with hard water deposits?

I have a large natural gas tankless water heater in our house (four bedrooms), and it's wonderful. Yes, we get HOT water in the showers at the other end of the house.

I also have a small electric tankless water heater in my office. LOVE IT, too.

farmerted · #12 01/20/14, 09:04 AM

I looked into putting in 3, wash room, bath, kitchen. The electric ones use an insane amount of energy, 40 amps at least, an air conditioner uses 30 amps (I would have had to have gotten a new electrical panel). The gas ones you need to run a gas line to each one, which is a lot of work that should be done be a professional. I think they would be great if you are building a new home, but putting in individual ones in an old house is going to cost a lot and it will take a long time before you pay for the eventual energy savings.

k9 · #13 01/20/14, 09:10 AM

Had a whole house Auqastar years ago and it limed up rapidly for me, your water may be different and it would work better for you.

Alice In TX/MO · #14 01/20/14, 09:10 AM

The one in my office is only in operation a few times a year, when holiday overflow means someone is sleeping and showering over there.

Lots of factors to look at when making those decisions.

LisaInN.Idaho · #15 01/20/14, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homstdr74

I have also heard that hard water ruins the tankless heaters. Do you have hard water and, if so, have you noticed any decrease in water flow?

I went back and changed that (typo). No we don't have hard water.

Tango · #16 01/20/14, 10:09 AM

Ive had two; Bosch Aquastar which was propane and whole house. Now I have a Rheem electric unit for point of use but it is used for the whole tiny cabin: shower and bathroom and kitchen sinks. It works wonderfully. I love it. My model is 15 kw and measures like 12 " x 8 " with a tiny 4" depth, like the size of a cereal box. That was the reason I got it- the space is so small. Yes it does use 40 amps but it isn't on all the time. A shower takes like 5 minutes or less. Dishes take a few minutes. Handwashing under a minute. When I had a guest this past Christmas we never ran out of hot water. I'm sure we would have run out of hot water with a small conventional water heater that would fit in that space (space was the deciding factor). Also because my cabin doesn't have central heating, just a small space heater,the bathroom is often cooler than the rest of the cabin. I wonder if that would have meant the boiler on a tank heater would have worked more to keep the water at a reasonable temp.
My plumber explained the hard water problems and had suggested a prefilter and a backwash or something like that. I don't remember because I didn't get it but if you have hard water, it doesn't necessarily mean you can't have a tankless. You can add the maintenance options to protect the appliance. With the cost of propane, I'm not sure the propane models offer any savings over electric. I got mine off of Ebya brand new form an appliance company for $274 no shipping and no tax. There was really no competition. Best wishes

mrs whodunit · #17 01/20/14, 10:14 AM

Friends of our recently installed a tankless.

I did not know this till I went to explore the reason I had luke warm water to shower in. To top it off it took 10 minutes to get this warm water to the bathroom.

They only had the tank set at 120f.... maybe if it was higher I would have had a pleasant shower?

Not impressed.

painterswife · #18 01/20/14, 10:33 AM

We have Tankless and hard water. We use a water softener because it is not just the tankless that is effected but all our taps and fixtures.

Marcia in MT · #19 01/20/14, 11:13 AM

We have hard water, and after 3 hot water tanks getting ruined, we installed a tankless. I love it! It gets flushed with vinegar once a year and has no problems.

I don't know what brand it is, but we have plenty of hot water, it doesn't take forever to heat, and the temperature is adjustable.

Insulating the hot water pipes would help.

NorthwoodsMike · #20 01/20/14, 12:09 PM

There are definitely ways around the hard water problem with tankless. Some of the better gas heaters are less prone to issues, and flushing them regularly seems to help the others.

I don't know that electric ones have the same issues that gas ones have as far as scaling up, as I don't think they have to contend with the small ports on the heat exchangers-I suspect the "elements" are in direct contact with the water, but I've never looked in one. Gas is more efficient for sure, but the initial cost/maintenance might offset that, especially in a point of use situation.

I actually use a cheaper propane on demand heater as a boiler for my radiant heat, but that is a closed system, and once the hardness is "cooked" out, it's essentially running distilled. For my regular water, I use a tank heater, with a filter and softener installed before it. Softeners help for sure, but don't solve the problem completely, and actually increase the salinity of the water slightly, also leading to buildup, so I'm still not sold on tankless for conventional systems where hard water is a concern.

If it were me, and just the kitchen used it, I would go this route:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ariston-4...3#.Ut1krBDnbDc

Conventional wiring, simplistic design, easy to install and maintain. They make smaller ones too.