Looking to bounce ideas off you guys

[TheBanditQueen]

I would like to bounce some of our homesteading ideas and plans off you guys. Getting thoughts/opinions from you who have maybe been doing it longer would be most helpful.

So.

Infrastructure: We have 10 acres in Alpine, TX. We've got a house, a storage shed, a really good well, fences, and a shed/corral/round pen. 10 acres seems a bit tight for self sufficiency, but it is a blessing to have that much. It would be much harder on a smaller place.

We have talked about selling the place and finding a larger acreage in an area where land is cheaper, but a) we like the place, the town, our friends, most of the community, Paul has job security to the max, b) we both do better in a dry desert climate and this one ('hospitable desert') would be hard to duplicate, and c) after what we've built, it would be hard to start over, especially since what we have is so close to passing Go. Maybe if we find a bag of money we could buy the 10 acre plot just across our fence. Someday. Hey, I can dream, can't I? :P

Garden: we have a 12x30 enclosed garden, a roughly 10,000 sq. ft. garden plot, and an 8x10 greenhouse. Someday we will build a larger greenhouse. Cuz I have this thing for greenhouses. :P

Livestock/animals: 2 horses, 6 Nigerian Dwarf goats, and 8 Pygmy goats (soon to have kids). We went with the mini goats because they do less damage to the trees, and we can keep about twice as many minis as full-size goats, which means a larger genetic base for a breeding herd. You get less meat off a Pygmy, so you gotta raise more. But it stores on the hoof nicely.

We are approaching it from a perspective of a) what can we do little by little in small steps to get the homestead on a more self-supporting basis, and b) what major large-investment projects should we focus on first, second, etc. in order to chip away at the large expenses.

Some of our plans:

1 – Clear the pasture, irrigate, and seed with grass to cut down on the horse feed bill, since that is one of the biggest expenses (and they don't really pay their way like food livestock does, unfortunately). We planted a patch of Bermuda, experimentally, and it held up very well under the traffic all summer.

The first step would be to get to where we have pasture during the summer. The next goal, more long term, would be to have enough forage for the winter as well. We could, hypothetically, a) overseed a cool season grass (although it must be able to handle traffic of 2 horses and multiple goats on a 5 acre pasture; and seeding every year means having a source of seeds. We are aiming for sustainability and would at some point hope to not be dependent on buying seeds), or b) cut hay (but I kinda doubt the practicality of that on such a small place).

2 – Build a windmill to pump water and save money on irrigation. My husband is a mad scientist/engineer and can build anything in the world with baling wire and a Leatherman. Seriously. :P

3 – Construct swales all across the property to catch rain and aid in irrigation. Here, we get inches of rain dumped in a very short time and it all runs off. A friend just told us about the concept of swales and it sounds like it is worth a try. If we get it to work, it might be the ticket to improving our pasturage. This doesn't really cost money as much, just labor, which is doable since I am at home right now. Has anybody done this?

4 – Begin keeping poultry again. We had chickens last year, but coons got them all (which was really disappointing because we had some great hens and an incredible rooster. Big black guy who never not once even thought about attacking people. Good with the girls too. We were sad to lose him.)

We plan to get chickens of several different breeds to see which ones do best here. The previous ones were mutts, Barred Rocks, and Mille Fleur bantams, plus one fluffy little white Aracauna (?) hen I really liked. Friendly, spritely, and the last one to be eaten. Her name was Muffy.

Does anyone have recommendations for chicken breeds?

My husband has kept guineas before and we are going to try them again. I have heard from several guinea keepers that they will eat snakes. Plus I think they look like hilarious little dinosaurs running around. We can handle the noise. Then in a few seasons we plan to raise some turkeys.

However, ordering chicks and keets means we will have to rebuild the chicken house. It is fine now, but too small for the number of birds we would like. So we will have to build an addition.

5 – Someday we would like to build a pond and raise ducks. But that won't be for a while yet probably.

6 – We have plans in the works to put some skylights in the house, and eventually set up a solar panel system that can run the basics. Fridge, freezer, electric stuff like that. Right now we have a steady stream of wood pallets free from Paul's work that we use in the woodstove to heat the house. Although I would like to come up with a sustainable heating method in case that isn't an option for some reason (thinking prepper-style here). Any thoughts on that?

7 – Once we have the big garden up and running, that will help the food bill. Though this is only my second year to garden for real so I have much to learn. We don't want to plan for being totally dependent on the garden just yet. It will be an investment to finish as well, as we intend to cover it with either shade cloth or something more long lasting, since we can get freak spring/summer hailstorms out of the blue. Right now it is planted with a cover crop.

The other part of the food bill – namely the goats – has also been slow to round out, since we started with baby goats. We had our first one freshen this summer, and the next one will be kidding in a couple months. I have one Pygmy doe who is about to kid, who has an udder nearly as big as my Nigerian's, and I catch myself thinking 'hmmm...wonder if I could milk that gal...' Hehe.

Sometimes I wonder if we should have gone with full size goats simply because they produce more milk in quantity, but there were so many other reasons in favor of Nigerians. Someday I'd like to have a LaMancha, just because they are so darn cute. But I am rambling... :P

8 – Another thing from a slightly different angle: we won't be truly homesteading and not tied to outside income and etc until we pay off the land. I forget how much the amount is. But until then, we have to have enough monetary income to make the payments (and for vehicle maintenance and things we just can't produce ourselves).

The other major option is for us to put some projects on hold, and for me to go get a job in town and work the heck at paying off the debt. This is appealing because I don't like being in debt. But as it is right now, we are making the bills and paying off the land steadily, though slowly. And building up the homestead slowly prevents burnout. Plus for things like the goats, they need constant management. Even though they browse so it hardly costs to feed them, it makes no sense to have these well-bred milk goats just playing in the pasture and not being used. So I am dithering. If we continue to go with one income, I could do a lot with the garden and the goats, and poultry, to help with the food bill. On the other hand, if I got a part time job, Paul could drop back to part time hours at his job, and would have more time to spend here doing things.



So that is where we are. I would love to hear any ideas or tips you guys have. Some things can be done concurrently, but cash flow is an issue, as I'm sure many of you understand. Anyway. Sorry for the long rambly post. I submit it for your consideration!

[FarmboyBill]

Sounds like alla the things you have listed to do/try, you should have gotten done on your current acreage before thinking it was too small and wanting larger.
What you have named is way doable on your 10 I would assume without seeing it.
Since your not going to do any farming, and with your acreage you wont be doing any ranching, Im wondering why your garden isn't something like mine around 90sq?
U say you want more green houses. u wont be able to afford them if you start making payments on even larger acreage. U got plenty room for them now.
Get everything you will need to can a years worth of veggies, fruits, jellies, ect.

I would say, get yourself a job. Build all needful and have a nest egg for things you have forgot about or wont know about till you start in.
Make sure your barns big enough to handle your hay/straw, and milking capabilities.
Make sure you have sufficient grainery storage area for different feeds, if you can buy them bulk, by the ton cheaper, and for bags of feed. Make sure also you have an ample tool storage and work area. ALSO, make sure you have all the tools you think you could conceivable use in the mid future and get them bought.
Make sure all your fencings bought, even if not installed.
Get all the machinery you think you will ever use bought.
Get your chicken houses, goat sheds, brooder houses, hog sheds? calf sheds? built.

THEN, comer spring, populate the place with your animals of choice, and U retire from your job.

[dkhern]

dont take this the wrong way. sounds to me like you need to decide if you are going to move toward selfsufficency or raise horses. with house, chicken coop, yard, barns, sheads, ponds, goats at the very least you will have to buy hay and grain. good luck

[geo in mi]

Calculate the amount of water your total operation will need in terms of gallons and calculate if your pumping system is big enough and how much power it will cost you.

geo

[Rustaholic]

Originally Posted by TheBanditQueen

I would like to bounce some of our homesteading ideas and plans off you guys. Getting thoughts/opinions from you who have maybe been doing it longer would be most helpful.

So.

Infrastructure: We have 10 acres in Alpine, TX. We've got a house, a storage shed, a really good well, fences, and a shed/corral/round pen. 10 acres seems a bit tight for self sufficiency, but it is a blessing to have that much. It would be much harder on a smaller place.

SNIP


Livestock/animals: 2 horses, 6 Nigerian Dwarf goats, and 8 Pygmy goats (soon to have kids). We went with the mini goats because they do less damage to the trees, and we can keep about twice as many minis as full-size goats, which means a larger genetic base for a breeding herd. You get less meat off a Pygmy, so you gotta raise more. But it stores on the hoof nicely.

We are approaching it from a perspective of a) what can we do little by little in small steps to get the homestead on a more self-supporting basis, and b) what major large-investment projects should we focus on first, second, etc. in order to chip away at the large expenses.

If you are not using those horses they are a very serious drain to the property. Do you have or can you make a couple harnesses?
I have a video from a SMALL FARM CONFERENCE that shows a lot of ways to use a horse.

[TnAndy]

Living in the Appalachian hardwood forest belt with 50 inches of rain per year, it's hard to offer a lot of ideas for your climate, but some things are more universal, so here goes:

Originally Posted by TheBanditQueen

Infrastructure: We have 10 acres in Alpine, TX. We've got a house, a storage shed, a really good well, fences, and a shed/corral/round pen. 10 acres seems a bit tight for self sufficiency, but it is a blessing to have that much. It would be much harder on a smaller place.

We have talked about selling the place and finding a larger acreage in an area where land is cheaper, but a) we like the place, the town, our friends, most of the community, Paul has job security to the max, b) we both do better in a dry desert climate and this one ('hospitable desert') would be hard to duplicate, and c) after what we've built, it would be hard to start over, especially since what we have is so close to passing Go. Maybe if we find a bag of money we could buy the 10 acre plot just across our fence. Someday. Hey, I can dream, can't I? :P

Get to know the owners of the 10ac across the fence. Let them know you'd be interested in buying it should they ever decide to sell. Plant that seed. We had a 27ac piece next to our 71ac that we bought about 13years after buying the original place. Then another adjoining piece came up (6.4ac) that the owner called us first as well just this year. SO let 'em know if possible. Things change for people and they decide to move, downsize, etc. Also let them know IF you'd take owner financing. That 27ac piece above we sold 2 years ago, ( after owning for about 15 ) to downsize some for us, and it provides us with a nice monthly payment income.

Originally Posted by TheBanditQueen

Garden: we have a 12x30 enclosed garden, a roughly 10,000 sq. ft. garden plot, and an 8x10 greenhouse. Someday we will build a larger greenhouse. Cuz I have this thing for greenhouses. :P

Yeah, we have a think for GH's too. Add some fruit trees if climate permits.

Originally Posted by TheBanditQueen

Livestock/animals: 2 horses, 6 Nigerian Dwarf goats, and 8 Pygmy goats (soon to have kids). We went with the mini goats because they do less damage to the trees, and we can keep about twice as many minis as full-size goats, which means a larger genetic base for a breeding herd. You get less meat off a Pygmy, so you gotta raise more. But it stores on the hoof nicely.

Horses are usually a luxury. REALLY ask yourself if you can justify something that costs you a LOT.

Originally Posted by TheBanditQueen

2 – Build a windmill to pump water and save money on irrigation.

Lot of old windmill pumps around. Find one and rebuild. You'll still need storage most likely.

Originally Posted by TheBanditQueen

4 – Begin keeping poultry again. We had chickens last year, but coons got them all (which was really disappointing because we had some great hens and an incredible rooster. Big black guy who never not once even thought about attacking people. Good with the girls too. We were sad to lose him.)

Now you've learned that 'free range' means 'bait' most places. Build a GOOD chicken lot ( cattle panels to keep out dogs/coyotes, chicken wire over the top of that to keep the chickens in. THEN lock them up every night in the coop. Only way to beat coons, possums, skunks, cats, owls, etc.

Originally Posted by TheBanditQueen

5 – Someday we would like to build a pond and raise ducks. But that won't be for a while yet probably.

Ponds are great, I've built two small ones here.

Originally Posted by TheBanditQueen

6 – We have plans in the works to put some skylights in the house, and eventually set up a solar panel system that can run the basics. Fridge, freezer, electric stuff like that. Right now we have a steady stream of wood pallets free from Paul's work that we use in the woodstove to heat the house. Although I would like to come up with a sustainable heating method in case that isn't an option for some reason (thinking prepper-style here). Any thoughts on that?

Wood is great, and sustainable IF you have wood ( we happen to have a mountain of it ), but a vac tube solar water heating system also for space heat is great too.

Originally Posted by TheBanditQueen

8 – Another thing from a slightly different angle: we won't be truly homesteading and not tied to outside income and etc until we pay off the land. I forget how much the amount is. But until then, we have to have enough monetary income to make the payments (and for vehicle maintenance and things we just can't produce ourselves).

Unless you plan to live mid 19th century, you will most likely always need an outside source of income. My guess is only a really tiny amount of 'homesteaders' can survive without one....and they would have to live a really simple life.

[Dr_aplet]

A couple of thoughts on your Homestead. first 10 ac. is a sizable amount of space. I am not sure but contrary to Farmboy Bill we could never plunk down the cash for all that stuff before ever getting off the ground and i dont think any one else ever could. I am trying to remember the name of the Homestead blogger that did just what Farmboy Bill advised and lost everything. Who can afford to do that? (I hope i didn't offend your Farmboy Bill)
Your horses are they pets or do they work and pull their weight? Pun intended. Horses will gobble up a whole lot of space if left to their own. If you have not looked at Joe Salatin's Poly Face Farm you should. You may be able to pasture the goats and horses in a way that uses less space and resources. You mentioned swales, here we call them Dikes they are to channel water down the hay fields evenly. These work well you just need someone with a surveying eye to make the middle/low part flat but sloping down hill. You can collect the water after it exits your field. If you just make V shaped cuts you wont have even pasture growth.
Chickens! you need them. I am not sure why one loss has stopped you? Just build it better and stronger next time. We just had a fox get in and stole a hen and harmed another but that was my fault for not closing them in when it gets dark. I am currently constructing an automatic chicken door opener (you can buy one for as little as $150) I am convinced that this will minimize some of the headache of opening them up in the morning and closing them in at night.
Job. First If you don't have a budget you need to get one and a new one every month. A budget will allow you to plan exactly what is coming in and going out and where. You will know where you are bleeding. Our budget allows us a "Farm" allowance this is used for what ever we need for the farm. As your farm grows so will the detail in your budget. a part time job will bring in some income but what will take you away from the farm. can you afford to be away? but i do agree work hard to pay it off because then that resource will go directly to the property. as stated above you will always need an income weather you can make your property provide that or not i dont know. I like it though keep pushing forward.

[TheBanditQueen]

See if I can figure out this multi-quote thing.

Just to clarify something... We didn't just one day go "weeeee! we're gonna be Little House On The Prairie!!!" and go out and buy a bunch of stuff and animals. It has been a very carefully thought out process. Paul has lived on and managed ranches, and has raised livestock and poultry, for most of his life. But large ranches don't translate in every way to a smaller acreage, so that is why we are considering all the steps we take and asking for many different opinions. I do appreciate y'all's suggestions and advice!

We're definitely not trying to be all 'entirely off grid, self sufficient, sitting around a campfire singing songs while our chickens slaughter, dress, and cook themselves, and the goats come waltzing up carrying buckets of milk and cheese, etc, etc.' in the immediate future. (Or ever, in THAT scenario, LOLOLOL) It's going to be a process and that's fine with us.

Originally Posted by Dr_aplet

A couple of thoughts on your Homestead. first 10 ac. is a sizable amount of space. I am not sure but contrary to Farmboy Bill we could never plunk down the cash for all that stuff before ever getting off the ground and i dont think any one else ever could. I am trying to remember the name of the Homestead blogger that did just what Farmboy Bill advised and lost everything. Who can afford to do that? (I hope i didn't offend your Farmboy Bill)
Your horses are they pets or do they work and pull their weight? Pun intended. Horses will gobble up a whole lot of space if left to their own. If you have not looked at Joe Salatin's Poly Face Farm you should. You may be able to pasture the goats and horses in a way that uses less space and resources. You mentioned swales, here we call them Dikes they are to channel water down the hay fields evenly. These work well you just need someone with a surveying eye to make the middle/low part flat but sloping down hill. You can collect the water after it exits your field. If you just make V shaped cuts you wont have even pasture growth.
Chickens! you need them. I am not sure why one loss has stopped you? Just build it better and stronger next time. We just had a fox get in and stole a hen and harmed another but that was my fault for not closing them in when it gets dark. I am currently constructing an automatic chicken door opener (you can buy one for as little as $150) I am convinced that this will minimize some of the headache of opening them up in the morning and closing them in at night.
Job. First If you don't have a budget you need to get one and a new one every month. A budget will allow you to plan exactly what is coming in and going out and where. You will know where you are bleeding. Our budget allows us a "Farm" allowance this is used for what ever we need for the farm. As your farm grows so will the detail in your budget. a part time job will bring in some income but what will take you away from the farm. can you afford to be away? but i do agree work hard to pay it off because then that resource will go directly to the property. as stated above you will always need an income weather you can make your property provide that or not i dont know. I like it though keep pushing forward.

It wasn't that one loss stopped us. We were properly closing the chickens in until we had some family issues that required some extended unexpected absences. While we were gone they didn't get closed in and thus were lost. There was nothing we could do. It was chickens versus family stuff...

Due to the busyness and taking care of things (which required traveling out of state) we decided it would not be wise to invest in another flock until stuff settled down. Next spring or summer will be a lot easier.

We do have a budget that we follow, with a portion that we put aside for the homestead. Budgets are wonderful inventions. And like you we can't pay for everything all at once before getting off the ground. Be nice if we could... :P That's why we're trying to break things down into small steps.

The horses, they are pets, but I also do intend for them to be as useful as possible. Paul's family has done quite a bit of research and exploration of the PolyFace Farm thing. It's not something I heard of until he told me about it. He described some of it as being a lot harder to apply here in the desert compared to when he lived back East.

Also, thank you for including an encouraging comment...

Originally Posted by TnAndy

Living in the Appalachian hardwood forest belt with 50 inches of rain per year, it's hard to offer a lot of ideas for your climate, but some things are more universal, so here goes:



Get to know the owners of the 10ac across the fence. Let them know you'd be interested in buying it should they ever decide to sell. Plant that seed. We had a 27ac piece next to our 71ac that we bought about 13years after buying the original place. Then another adjoining piece came up (6.4ac) that the owner called us first as well just this year. SO let 'em know if possible. Things change for people and they decide to move, downsize, etc. Also let them know IF you'd take owner financing. That 27ac piece above we sold 2 years ago, ( after owning for about 15 ) to downsize some for us, and it provides us with a nice monthly payment income.



Yeah, we have a think for GH's too. Add some fruit trees if climate permits.




Horses are usually a luxury. REALLY ask yourself if you can justify something that costs you a LOT.



Lot of old windmill pumps around. Find one and rebuild. You'll still need storage most likely.




Now you've learned that 'free range' means 'bait' most places. Build a GOOD chicken lot ( cattle panels to keep out dogs/coyotes, chicken wire over the top of that to keep the chickens in. THEN lock them up every night in the coop. Only way to beat coons, possums, skunks, cats, owls, etc.




Ponds are great, I've built two small ones here.



Wood is great, and sustainable IF you have wood ( we happen to have a mountain of it ), but a vac tube solar water heating system also for space heat is great too.



Unless you plan to live mid 19th century, you will most likely always need an outside source of income. My guess is only a really tiny amount of 'homesteaders' can survive without one....and they would have to live a really simple life.

As above, we had a proper setup for the chickens. It actually wasn't a matter of learning stuff... They free ranged very well. They were my husband's flock that he had before we got married, and he has raised chickens successfully for 27 years... But yeah, we do have the coons around here.

I will research that heating idea. Thank you!

Originally Posted by Rustaholic

If you are not using those horses they are a very serious drain to the property. Do you have or can you make a couple harnesses?
I have a video from a SMALL FARM CONFERENCE that shows a lot of ways to use a horse.

Rustaholic, I would love to see this video! Is there a link to it or can I get it somewhere?

Originally Posted by dkhern

dont take this the wrong way. sounds to me like you need to decide if you are going to move toward selfsufficency or raise horses. with house, chicken coop, yard, barns, sheads, ponds, goats at the very least you will have to buy hay and grain. good luck

Dkhern, I'm not actually 'raising horses'. What I mean is, we didn't go out and buy horses in preparation to homestead. I've owned mine for the past 13 years more or less and we built a place for them before we decided to move toward homesteading. Right now they are providing us with a lot of organic matter which we are putting in the garden. If there are other ways they can be useful I intend to research that as well.

Originally Posted by FarmboyBill

Sounds like alla the things you have listed to do/try, you should have gotten done on your current acreage before thinking it was too small and wanting larger.
What you have named is way doable on your 10 I would assume without seeing it.
Since your not going to do any farming, and with your acreage you wont be doing any ranching, Im wondering why your garden isn't something like mine around 90sq?
U say you want more green houses. u wont be able to afford them if you start making payments on even larger acreage. U got plenty room for them now.
Get everything you will need to can a years worth of veggies, fruits, jellies, ect.

I would say, get yourself a job. Build all needful and have a nest egg for things you have forgot about or wont know about till you start in.
Make sure your barns big enough to handle your hay/straw, and milking capabilities.
Make sure you have sufficient grainery storage area for different feeds, if you can buy them bulk, by the ton cheaper, and for bags of feed. Make sure also you have an ample tool storage and work area. ALSO, make sure you have all the tools you think you could conceivable use in the mid future and get them bought.
Make sure all your fencings bought, even if not installed.
Get all the machinery you think you will ever use bought.
Get your chicken houses, goat sheds, brooder houses, hog sheds? calf sheds? built.

THEN, comer spring, populate the place with your animals of choice, and U retire from your job.

FarmboyBill, your comment is a little bit confusing to me.... We aren't just 'wanting more land without doing stuff'. Most of what we have was already built. The house, fences, shed, etc, were there before we decided to move toward a homesteading lifestyle. And we *are* doing stuff on our current acreage... The large garden is for several reasons: we both enjoy gardening, plus I do a lot of experimenting with plants and different growing methods. Plus some plants take up a lot of space. And we are vegaholics.

I do appreciate your advice. We can't go out and buy everything all at once, though it would be nice. But we are working on a nest egg, emergency fund, rainy day money, whatever you wanna call it. Always good to have.

[potatoguru]

Horses can cost a lot of money and drain your finances. Unless your using them for a really meaningful purpose, I would seriously re-evaluate having them on your homestead, if you truly wish to get to self-sufficiency. Just my 2 cents.

[TxMex]

Wow, 10 acres in Alpine? I am officially jealous! I lived in south county for quite a while.

Re-use as much grey water as you can. Use it on your pasture grasses if you are unsure of using it on fruit trees and such. Use solar any time you can. Consider doing aquaponics(fish and plants). Growing plants hydroponically actually uses just a fraction of the water that it takes to grow a plant by conventional soil based methods.

Me personally I'd get rid of the goats you have now and only keep a couple of full size milk goats. Use chickens or rabbits for meat animals. Build whatever structure holds your small critters as though you were trying to protect big piles of gold. There are some amazing critters out there that really like chicken.

Want to make a fortune in that town? Open a decent restaurant

[Vosey]

BanditQueen - everything you have written about are excellent ideas except moving! The positives of where you are, the infrastructure already, built outweighs having more acreage. Even if you found a larger, affordable place the cost of moving and redoing things could be huge.

Keep working on the gardens. Growing all or most of your own veggies is incredibly freeing. And putting up all that produce is a huge security blanket. It does take time to figure out what grows best, use those greenhouses for winter greens and veggies.

Personally, I wouldn't work if you're already paying down debt, which it sounds like you are. You won't get nearly as far with your homesteading dreams if both of you work. I am biased as I wish I was home more to get things done!

[TheBanditQueen]

Originally Posted by TxMex

Want to make a fortune in that town? Open a decent restaurant

I know, right?? LOL. Like one that stays open all night, and it would be packed to the gills with college students. I wonder that somebody hasn't done it yet. Except for McDonald's that is. :P

I am curious, tell me more about your reasons for full size goats rather than mini's?

[TheBanditQueen]

Originally Posted by Vosey

BanditQueen - everything you have written about are excellent ideas except moving! The positives of where you are, the infrastructure already, built outweighs having more acreage. Even if you found a larger, affordable place the cost of moving and redoing things could be huge.

Keep working on the gardens. Growing all or most of your own veggies is incredibly freeing. And putting up all that produce is a huge security blanket. It does take time to figure out what grows best, use those greenhouses for winter greens and veggies.

Personally, I wouldn't work if you're already paying down debt, which it sounds like you are. You won't get nearly as far with your homesteading dreams if both of you work. I am biased as I wish I was home more to get things done!

It totally is freeing!! In my smallish garden this summer, I grew enough tomatoes and peppers to where I didn't need to buy any for most of the summer until Thanksgiving. The way I eat those, it was a big savings. That was a big first step for me. The next step will be growing enough to put up for the winter.

P.S. Thanks for your encouragement!!

[Jennifer L.]

I don't think you need any advice: I think you have your head screwed on straight and probably should be giving advice to others.

Seriously, you are putting a lot of thought into things, and that's the big one. Keep going the way you are and you should do fine.

Good luck!

[TxMex]

Originally Posted by TheBanditQueen

I know, right?? LOL. Like one that stays open all night, and it would be packed to the gills with college students. I wonder that somebody hasn't done it yet. Except for McDonald's that is. :P

I am curious, tell me more about your reasons for full size goats rather than mini's?

I went back and re-read. Somehow I missed that you have Nigerian dwarfs. Those are pretty awesome little goats. I'm not a fan of pygmies as they are pretty much a pet breed. They aren't really bred for meat or milk(please no tomato throwing from the goat forum!).

After having both full sized and dwarf milk goats, my opinion is that the full sized produce a lot more milk and don't really eat a lot more compared with the milk they produce. There is more meat on a bigger goat as well. If you are speaking strictly from a dollars, cents and amount of milk produced perspective....get the larger goats.

However, there is nothing cuter than a dwarf baby! I met every neighbor within a 10 mile radius once my dwarfs kidded. Folks just had to stop and look at those tiny little things.

[TheBanditQueen]

Originally Posted by Jennifer L.

I don't think you need any advice: I think you have your head screwed on straight and probably should be giving advice to others.

Seriously, you are putting a lot of thought into things, and that's the big one. Keep going the way you are and you should do fine.

Good luck!

Where's the mega-like-and-thank-you button??

I do want to do a check sometimes to make sure I haven't gone off on too many rabbit trails and done something stupid. But it seems that there are so many "right" ways to do things. No one homestead can have everything, and ye gads, there are so many choices. :P

[TheBanditQueen]

Originally Posted by TxMex

I went back and re-read. Somehow I missed that you have Nigerian dwarfs. Those are pretty awesome little goats. I'm not a fan of pygmies as they are pretty much a pet breed. They aren't really bred for meat or milk(please no tomato throwing from the goat forum!).

After having both full sized and dwarf milk goats, my opinion is that the full sized produce a lot more milk and don't really eat a lot more compared with the milk they produce. There is more meat on a bigger goat as well. If you are speaking strictly from a dollars, cents and amount of milk produced perspective....get the larger goats.

However, there is nothing cuter than a dwarf baby! I met every neighbor within a 10 mile radius once my dwarfs kidded. Folks just had to stop and look at those tiny little things.

Aha. Yeah, when our first Nigerian kidded, every single neighbor who passes our house on their way to work wanted the baby. :P

The scale issue is definitely a consideration. We went with minis because as a newbie I was more comfortable with them. I used to be terrified of goats. But these are so easy for me to handle.

We found the Pygmies to be surprisingly nice for small scale processing. So far we have butchered 4, 2 over a year and 2 under, and gotten between 25-35 pounds off each one. Which, for the ease of processing, was a good amount. It was a good way to break into things, I think. They are definitely stockier than the Nigerians, comparing minis to minis, but not on the same scale as a large meat goat. I have heard things about Pygmies having trouble kidding, which I haven't seen yet, but would rather not have to deal with.

With just the two of us here, having huge amounts of meat hasn't been needed, but then we do love red meat...

What about butterfat? The majority of people we talked to said the Nigies have higher butterfat than large breeds. Have you found that to be the case? In the future, we plan to get back into cheesemaking. Apparently Nigi milk has a reputation for good cheese.

At this point, I think it was good to start with Nigis so I could learn to process smaller amounts of milk. But who knows, maybe someday we will get into the bigger ones. What breeds have you had?

[TxMex]

Originally Posted by TheBanditQueen

Aha. Yeah, when our first Nigerian kidded, every single neighbor who passes our house on their way to work wanted the baby. :P

The scale issue is definitely a consideration. We went with minis because as a newbie I was more comfortable with them. I used to be terrified of goats. But these are so easy for me to handle.

We found the Pygmies to be surprisingly nice for small scale processing. So far we have butchered 4, 2 over a year and 2 under, and gotten between 25-35 pounds off each one. Which, for the ease of processing, was a good amount. It was a good way to break into things, I think. They are definitely stockier than the Nigerians, comparing minis to minis, but not on the same scale as a large meat goat. I have heard things about Pygmies having trouble kidding, which I haven't seen yet, but would rather not have to deal with.

With just the two of us here, having huge amounts of meat hasn't been needed, but then we do love red meat...

What about butterfat? The majority of people we talked to said the Nigies have higher butterfat than large breeds. Have you found that to be the case? In the future, we plan to get back into cheesemaking. Apparently Nigi milk has a reputation for good cheese.

At this point, I think it was good to start with Nigis so I could learn to process smaller amounts of milk. But who knows, maybe someday we will get into the bigger ones. What breeds have you had?

If I'd have been willing to let go of a week old baby dwarf I could have named my price. Everybody wanted one.

I did have trouble with a first time freshener and lost her single kid at the time of birth. She was bred too young and was already bred when I bought her. My experience was that the full sized Nubians that I had gave richer milk than my dwarfs.

Here is where I enter my disclaimer and say that I really prefer a milk cow. If I still drank milk....I'd buy another cow in a minute, especially since the cottage laws have changed in the state of Texas and I'd be able to sell my excess.

If you want red meat....see if y'all can get permission to go hunting Aoudad's down in south county! Those things are huge and quite a problem for the Parks dept.

[TheBanditQueen]

Originally Posted by TxMex

If I'd have been willing to let go of a week old baby dwarf I could have named my price. Everybody wanted one.

I did have trouble with a first time freshener and lost her single kid at the time of birth. She was bred too young and was already bred when I bought her. My experience was that the full sized Nubians that I had gave richer milk than my dwarfs.

Here is where I enter my disclaimer and say that I really prefer a milk cow. If I still drank milk....I'd buy another cow in a minute, especially since the cottage laws have changed in the state of Texas and I'd be able to sell my excess.

If you want red meat....see if y'all can get permission to go hunting Aoudad's down in south county! Those things are huge and quite a problem for the Parks dept.

What age was your doe when she kidded? I assume she was Nigerian?

I would so love to hunt Aoudad...although all the stuff I've seen so far indicates that you have to pay a lot to go on a exotic/trophy hunt or something. What areas are they a problem in?

[jbo9]

Last week I listened to several hours of podcasts about food forests. The host was in Texas and had plans for establishing lots of trees, incorporating swales and building ponds. What he was talking about used up less than an acre of space but increased production significantly. It sounds like it might match your goals somewhat.

(I haven't included a link to the specific podcast, because I don't know the rules for that; I don't want to run afoul of the Mods. But a Google search should bring it up)