Documented Mountain Lion Sightings

[KMA1]

To avoid contributing to the thread drift on the other thread here, I am posting this separately. December 2013 edition of National Geographic has a story on the recovery of the mountain lion in the United States, including a map showing documented sightings in states where the population is expanding.

I know this is a hot topic with a lot of people on this forum. But the only sightings considered by us wildlife biologists are those documented with physical evidence, not what someone thinks they saw. The reason is we consider ourselves scientists and work with documented data. You know to avoid that popular "bad science" label that some folks like to throw around.

It is not that I believe folks are lying when they saw something. But after 30 odd years of searching for physical evidence following sightings, and looking at pictures of house cats, I know that sometimes peoples minds can play tricks on them. And I have no doubt that some folks have seen cougars but have no physical evidence.

And don't blame state conservation officers for telling you cougars are not in your area. State wildlife agencies can only acknowledge those species that are documented to have populations in their jurisdiction. That takes a number of documented sightings in a general area.

Maybe this will clarify some of what some of you have been told at one time or another.

KMA1

[Johnny Dolittle]

The link

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20.../chadwick-text

[Old Vet]

The only thing is that you must register to look at it.

[Johnny Dolittle]

Originally Posted by Old Vet

The only thing is that you must register to look at it.

just click as if you intend to sign in .... then a new window opens and you can click the "x" in the corner to cancel it.... and then you can view the site without registering

[unregistered41671]

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...ading-east-map

[farmrbrown]

I got to look at it, just clicked "register later".

This is what drives people crazy though. I looked at the map, other than the Everglades, no cougars "confirmed" east of the Mississippi.
Yet as the article continues, there's this......





The most dauntless of the explorers made headlines in 2011 when he was killed by an SUV on a highway exit in Milford, Connecticut. According to genetic tests this animal came from the Black Hills of South Dakota via a route estimated to be more than 2,000 miles long, setting the continent’s distance record for a journey by four-legged wildlife.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had just declared the eastern subspecies of cougar extinct when that South Dakota cat was killed in Milford. Two years later, in a forested suburb a block from where the cat died, resident Gary Gianotti told me he had recently spooked another cougar off his back porch.

“We’ve got a booming deer population around here, as well as wild turkeys, rabbits, and raccoons,” Gianotti said. “I see cougar tracks all the time.” Turning on a cell phone, he showed me photos of large feline paw prints in the snow. “There’s a cougar population breeding in Connecticut,” Gianotti insisted, referring me to a website filled with citizens’ accounts of seeing the big cats or their sign. “None of the agencies want to deal with it.”

Stories of supposedly unmistakable sightings, eerie nighttime caterwauling, or fresh kills with evidence of a big cat’s signature choke hold on the throat have persisted generation after generation, from Maine to the southern Appalachians. Since the 1960s authorities have received thousands of reports of cougars in the East. As a rule the accounts they investigate turn out to be any and every creature except a cougar. Surprisingly, up to a third describe what they saw as a black panther, despite the fact that no scientist has ever found evidence of a black cougar anywhere in North America. But not all the eastern cougar sightings were illusions; experts confirmed well over a hundred. Most appeared to be animals that escaped from captivity—or were purposefully set loose. In other cases, though, the cats’ origins remained obscure.





I mean, if a dead cougar in the middle of the road isn't a confirmed sighting, what the heck is?

[unregistered41671]

Originally Posted by farmrbrown

I looked at the map, other than the Everglades, no cougars "confirmed" east of the Mississippi.
Yet as the article continues, there's this......

It shows one confirmed in GA, several in NE FLA, and 6-7 in the NE US

[chickenista]

They are out of their minds.
I have seen them.
And I know the difference between a housecat or a bobcat.
I was a zookeeper, but I knew the difference long before then.
In the western North Carolina mountains they are, not exactly common since they prefer to not be seen, but seen often enough.
Heck.. even in the foothills they can pop up, but not as often.

I have seen them crossing the road, walking through my friend's yard, drinking from a stream etc...

I don't understand why DNR and the others refuse to accept the roadkill mountain lion/panther/cougars right in front of them.

[Vosey]

Even those of us who live in areas of high density cougars (1 per square mile here) rarely, if ever, see them. I've seen 2 in 8 years, and prints maybe 3 times, suspect I've heard them twice. Scat? All the time!

[farmrbrown]

Originally Posted by Possum Belly

It shows one confirmed in GA, several in NE FLA, and 6-7 in the NE US

Aaaaahhh, that's a different map than the one in the first link.

[where I want to]

I'm in a high density area too but one that bars hunting them. In 8 years I've seen three. Just let them never be hunted as you'll seen them.
Me- I just chase deer away from my place as much as I can. The only think I can think to do is to try and keep the food supply elsewhere.

[Wolf mom]

This issue is no different that the one that is being fought here in the southwest with the reintroduction of Mexican Grey wolves.
Lots of anecdotal sightings and complaints by ranchers, but few real, true facts. Yet, like where I want to, we're overrun with elk and no one ever talks of the forest damage by range cows.

[Waiting Falcon]

I found a very clear paw print that was big enough for a house cat to sit in when I lived in Arkansas about that same time a "big cat" sent a herd(s) of cattle through new barb wire fences near Bismark..
There are a variety of people that have consistently told of the big cat that comes through and many have heard the scream .

But then there is also the bear that was not in Arkansas. It came and dumped trash cans one night... it was reported ... DNR said no bear it came back and did more damage.. reported ... no bear in Arkansas

It came back and tore in to the chicken house it was shot reported and DNR came out and said it was illegal to shoot bears but since he had reported it they would let him go...the pictures came out in the paper.........

There has long been reports of a big cat that has carried goats over a fence in Arkansas..years of visual sightings but how many people have a camera to be with them at the exact moment???

[unregistered41671]

Originally Posted by Johnny Dolittle

The link

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20.../chadwick-text

Originally Posted by Possum Belly

It shows one confirmed in GA, several in NE FLA, and 6-7 in the NE US

Originally Posted by farmrbrown

Aaaaahhh, that's a different map than the one in the first link.

The map is in the first link. It is just down a bit and on the left hand side.

[ErinP]

The fact that it has to be verified by the state's Game and Parks is what makes it limiting. A friend of mine from high school is a biologist with Nebraska's G&P specializing in hogs and lions. ...An amusing combination in my opinion. lol

He'll tell you the official locations of both, as well as the unofficial locations. Despite the fact that there are no official lion sightings down here in the SW corner in the river valley, he'll tell you they are probably here. (Same with hogs, actually) Take care when walking the river bottoms.

It might also be that the Nat'l Geo map is actually a little out of date (yes, I saw--2013). Going to the Nebraska G&P website, they have more confirmed sites than NG shows...

[CIW]

Theres a quicker solution to this situation.
If you want to know if there are cats in the area, bring in a houndsmen and his pack of hounds from the west. Those dogs that have ran track and treed cats will know in a few days if there is a cat in the area.
If there is, they will cut track and likely tree the cat. The decision can then be made as to its future while in the tree.
It isn't any problem holding those cats up. I have a friend that works with the USFW biologists. He trees upwards of 60 cats every winter. They selectively collar several each year and track them. If you candidly ask him if there are cougers East of the Missouri river, he'll reply "By the truckload".
Those collared cats are tracked with a satellite over a 5 year period at which time the collar falls off. They know right where those cats are headed. By the way they have been collaring these cats for 20+ years. Theres some good data that hasn't been disclosed as yet.

[copperkid3]

It's been nearly 20 yrs since the x-wife & I were taking a vacation trip to the U.P.

of Michigan. After 5.5 hrs of driving and a bit after midnight (with several more hours to go)

we came to the Seney Wildlife Refuge on route 28 west. The road stretches straight

for 25+ miles across the northern swampland and is usually quite boring - especially after

an already long day of traveling. Not that evening. Midway across, we both saw a very

large feline form with an equally long tail, jump up from the right side of the roadway,

crossing quickly to the left side of the highway in front of the vehicle, and then gone!

We both blurted out together: "DID YOU SEE THAT!??? COUGAR!!! Of course we turned

around and went back to see if we could find any further sign, found nothing and continued

on our journey wide-awake and discussing the possibilities of how it came to be there.

Over the years, have talked to many others who have reported seeing it (them) in &/or

around that area and the DNR even went so far as to state that "if" there was one, it was

not a native cat, or one re-introduced by the dept., but was likely someone's 'pet' that

had been brought out there and abandoned. Didn't buy that story then - don't buy it now.


http://www.womenhunters.com/press-re...ar-attack.html


Closer to home and downstate . . . just a few years ago and a couple townships over in

the same county, someone had their horse attacked and killed. The vet took

photos and measurements of the injuries and all indications pointed to a cougar as being

the culprit. A few months later, another horse in a nearby county was also attacked and

so severely injured, it had to be put down. Again, the evidence indicated a large feline.

Strangely enough, neither of these (nor many others) show up on the "official" map.

My neighbor lady who lives less than a half mile from me, mentioned 3+ years ago,

that her indoor cat was sitting near the patio door one evening, when she started

growling and hissing at something in the dark, out on the porch. The lady flipped on

the porch light to reveal a full-grown puma staring back at her! It took off when she

screamed and ran across the roadway to a swamp.

I would venture to guess, that cougars have successfully reintroduced

themselves across much of this nation and there are many more

cats out there, than what the "official" maps are actually showing.

[ronbre]

shows they have been historically in every state of the US

[highlands]

The joke is that the only official evidence they'll accept is the body of the mountain lion and when you bring it in they say, "Well, that one's dead so there are no mountain lions in Vermont."

My wife, myself, neighbors and friends in the area have all seen mountain lions, sometimes up close and personal, multiple times over the past three decades. They're out there. One killed some of our sheep years ago. I don't really care if the Fish and Wildlife Department agrees.

Interestingly, when I spoke with one of the government people about this they said that the reason they did not want to acknowledge the existence of catamount (local name for mountain lions) is that then they would have to spend money on them and they don't have the budget. He said the same thing goes for wolves.

[Rustaholic]

I live in Williamsburg, Michigan.
The mountain lion I saw just south of Grayling back around 1980 probably was not the same one a dear friend of mine was seeing almost daily near Benzonia, Michigan in 1996.