Couple of property purchases questions

[Lauri]

In my FANTASY life, I would live in the wilderness, be off grid, and grow all my own food.

My real life isn't like that, nor will it, most likely, ever be.

I have an opportunity to purchase/make an offer, on a piece of property that would work well for me at the present time.

The one thing, that is preventing me from jumping all over this, is in my opinion, not a real big issue........but I am hesitant about it.

So I am seeking the wise counsel of the folks here.

Over 20+ years ago, a gas spill occurred that may have caused ground water contamination. In the last two years the company responsible added to the city's water system, so that people in the area now have city water available to them.

The chemical in the spill that is in question is MTBE.


I have googled the chemical.

With what I have read about the chemical in question, and the fact that I would be on city water, makes the issue seem like not a big deal.

I like the property, the location is perfect for me, the price is awesome.


Thoughts, please??

Thanks

[Bellyman]

Do you WANT to be on city water? A lot of people don't want to be tied to the city water connection for the independence.

I haven't researched MTBE but would there be possibility that it could taint vegetables or fruits that you'd want to grow in that soil?

I can understand your hesitancy. Looking forward to hearing what others say.

Good luck!

[Vosey]

Was the gas spill near your property? The little I know about MTBE is that it is highly water soluble and can be tasted in water at low concentrations. I did a quick search on Google and couldn't find anything about how long it remains in soil or how it could affect gardens. Can you test the soil at the property? It sounds like a great deal and it'd be too bad to pass it up for something that may or may not affect your soil.

[geo in mi]

It escapes to the air(volatilizes) rapidly. I would figure out ways to make this happen before using it for my animals or garden, such as installing a waterfall or similar device before pumping it onto land. But continue using city water for drinking, bathing, and cooking....

Sorry for the joking, but I couldn't help remember this old school bus song:

"Pepsi-Cola hits the spot,
In your stomach it does rot.
Smells like whiskey, tastes like wine.
Oh my gosh, it's turpentine!"

(NO offense to the PepsiCorp for that one...)

Personally, I would just take simple precautions to allow it to escape to the air....especially if it's been over twenty years. This stuff was added to gasoline supposedly to make it burn better in cars--because of the MTBE problem, it was discontinued....and gasoline storage especially at the service stations have been revamped over the years, with valves and above ground testing and monitoring for leaks.

http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/water.htm

geo

[mmoetc]

Was the spill on the piece you're buying? If not, how close and how extensive a spill? Is there an existing well on the property that can be tested? If not do any of the adjacent properties have a well they would allow you to have tested? Have you talked to the neighboring property owners about any concerns or health issues they have experienced. City water is an ongoing bill you must consider. Does it also include city sewer as this is often tied to water usage which is a factor if you'll be watering large plantings or livestock. Do your research and you'll likely find your comfort level with the property.

[ronbre]

groundwater is an important thing,I wouldn't buy the land unless the water is tested and is free of contaminants...you can test it on your own to find out...worth the few bucks

[wy_white_wolf]

How do you plan on watering the garden?

City water would be very expensive for that and could contain more chemicals than the ground water that are detrimental to plants. Chlorine and flouride are 2 that quickly come to mind.

WWW

[Maura]

I would not worry about flouride because it can naturally be in the water. Chlorine will disapate into the air, especially if you use a spray. Chloramine stays in the water and I would not want this in my water. Is MTBE something that plants will take up?

[Lauri]

I am always amazed and appreciative of the different perspectives folks on this board have.

Once again, you have given me ideas/suggestions I had not concidered.

BELLYMAN; no I don't want to be on city water. This is one of the draw backs of the property.

VOSY: The spill was about 2 miles away. Checking the soil is something I had not considered, but will now do.

GEO: Loved the Pepsi thing! I have wondered how much "CRUD" my father in law may have poured on the property I live on now. (Part of the old family farm).


MMOETD: Well on the property may not be able to be tested, as the electricity is off. The property was bought by the seller in a tax sale, no one is presently living there. I could/will introduce my self to the neighbors and ask for some of theirs for testing. Checking on the sewer.


WWW & MAURA: also good questions.



AS usual....you folks rock

[Harry Chickpea]

Purchase option based on independent water test.

[mmoetc]

Originally Posted by Lauri

I am always amazed and appreciative of the different perspectives folks on this board have.

Once again, you have given me ideas/suggestions I had not concidered.

BELLYMAN; no I don't want to be on city water. This is one of the draw backs of the property.

VOSY: The spill was about 2 miles away. Checking the soil is something I had not considered, but will now do.

GEO: Loved the Pepsi thing! I have wondered how much "CRUD" my father in law may have poured on the property I live on now. (Part of the old family farm).


MMOETD: Well on the property may not be able to be tested, as the electricity is off. The property was bought by the seller in a tax sale, no one is presently living there. I could/will introduce my self to the neighbors and ask for some of theirs for testing. Checking on the sewer.


WWW & MAURA: also good questions.



AS usual....you folks rock

If the pump is operable a generator could provide power to get a water sample. Depending on what is found using the city service for potable water and the well for watering might be an option.

[fishhead]

If you can access the well you might be able to collect a sample using a "bailer". We used them at work to sample monitoring wells.

They are nothing more than a plastic tube with a simple check valve on the bottom tied to enough rope to reach the water level in the well. They cost a couple of bucks. The lab that would do the testing would probably be able to supply it.

If you do go that route I would use the bailer to pull all of the water that has been setting in the pipe out as least once. You do that by dropping the bailer down the well and bringing it back to the surface. Dump it and repeat and repeat........

[Twobottom]

One of the criteria for my homestead was it must have a well. I don't want to pay for water, just a sticking point for me. But I've seen water bills go from 20 dollars a year when they introduced them in my area decades ago, to 100 dollars a month in some cases or more. Once you are dependent on it they will jack the price up over time, guaranteed.

Just my opinion, but I would look elsewhere.

[ET1 SS]

Originally Posted by mmoetc

If the pump is operable a generator could provide power to get a water sample. Depending on what is found using the city service for potable water and the well for watering might be an option.

That was my thought too.

Get the water table tested for those chemicals.

[FarmboyBill]

yep, don't want city water on my place either.

[Danaus29]

Originally Posted by Twobottom

One of the criteria for my homestead was it must have a well. I don't want to pay for water, just a sticking point for me. But I've seen water bills go from 20 dollars a year when they introduced them in my area decades ago, to 100 dollars a month in some cases or more. Once you are dependent on it they will jack the price up over time, guaranteed.

Just my opinion, but I would look elsewhere.

Wholly agree 100%. Without a well already present you have no idea about the potability of the ground water. As for city water, once you are on it the price continues to go up and up and up. And will be terribly expensive for watering crops and livestock.

[Sawmill Jim]

Originally Posted by Maura

I would not worry about flouride because it can naturally be in the water. Chlorine will disapate into the air, especially if you use a spray. Chloramine stays in the water and I would not want this in my water. Is MTBE something that plants will take up?

Never heard of natural fluoride it is a poison that is added to water to make it safer You can put a froranator on your well if you feel the need for more poison

Just ask the neighbors a few things like do you have a well and how long you lived here . If they have a well are old been there a long time it can't be too bad or they would been dead by now . Saves a water test fee but two miles away twenty years ago is a long time and a long way off .

[Vosey]

Our wells all have natural fluoride in this area, fluoride is only poisonous if ingested in high levels daily. That usually happens when a child has fluoridated city water and then mistakenly is given fluoride tablets as well. It takes a lot of fluoride to harm an adult.

And I don't mean to send this thread off on a tangent!

I would think that talking to neighbors would be key along with testing.

[Raymond James]

Have you checked with the State Environmental office to see what they have on the property?

Was the spill something that was required to be disclosed by the seller to the buyer?


A small garden could be done in raised beds with soil brought in if you had to.

[wogglebug]

Originally Posted by Sawmill Jim

Never heard of natural fluoride it is a poison that is added to water to make it safer

Well, then, I guess you don't know that much about the use of fluorine in water.

The reason they decided it was a good idea was because through public health statistical analysis they found that there were areas were children's teeth hardly rotted at all, compared to national and world-wide averages. They discovered that this was because there was fluorine occurring naturally as a trace element in the water in those areas. Those trace amounts of fluorine found their way into the tooth structure, making it much harder and resistant to decay. They found that happening in the areas where the kid's teeth weren't rotting, tested it in clinical trials by dosing kids with fluorine in areas where decay was either normal or very bad, and saw tooth decay drop dramatically. Since they thought it was better for people to have a mouthful of healthy teeth rather than half a remaining mouthful of rotting ones, they decided to supplement water supplies with fluorine. Nation-wide tooth-decay figures also dropped dramatically.

It's certainly not the first or last time that small amounts of something were found to be necessary or helpful, whereas large amounts can be toxic. That even applies to water or oxygen.

So... fluorine added to urban water supplies is imitating nature.

All of which was clarifying a single off-thread misconception, and has nothing to do with the original subject.