Getting power to shop

[ArXane]

We just purchased a place that has a shop 400ft from the house without power. I had pacific power out and tthey quoted 12,000 to add poles and a transformer to that shop.

My question is this.....The house has a 200amp existing service I would like to have at least 100 amp service to the shop. What are some thoughts on accomplishing this without going through PP? I was thinking of adding a 400amp service and splitting it, 200 amp to existing panel to the house and bring the other 200 to shop by was of trenching/conduit.

Am I on the right track?

[ronbre]

we buried cable in condut behind our house, my son has some good elec knowledge as he is mtce at his shop he works at..

if you can't go the entire distance without the need to splice...put in a pole half way and come up and put a light on it or a gfi outlet..and then go another 200' ..you need to bury it deep enough to not get damaged and make sure it is well marked and you record where it is..

I wouldn't contact the inspectors or power co.

[Yvonne's hubby]

I would just put a 100 amp breaker in the current 200 amp box, and run wires of adequate size from that to the shop. Your shop breaker box then becomes a sub-panel, pretty sure it will require 4 wires, one for each of the two hot leads, a ground wire and a neutral. My personal preference is to bury them in conduit, but overhead might even be a bit cheaper. 12K does sound a bit expensive to me.

[Harry Chickpea]

Your problem may not have a cheap good solution. 300' is the hairy edge of what our power company will go underground from a pig, and that is with a box midway in case the cable needs to be re-run. A run of 400', even with 4-0 is going to require a different tap on the pig (higher voltage) than the one to the home. With the differences, you can't do what you are suggesting without either a high voltage problem in the home or low voltage problem at the shop.

[DaleK]

Depends what your elec. prices are. Friend here just put up a fairly large shop and found a propane generator was cheaper than hooking up to the grid

[AdmiralD7S]

If you bury it "naked", you have to worry about the line deteriorating. If you put it in conduit, you have to worry about heat and condensation. That's a fair piece to be running something without getting a little professional about your setup. I highly recommend that when you think you have a solution, roll it around in your head for at least a week. What's a couple weeks' delay compared to messing up and having to re-do it all over again? Been there, done that :/

[JoePa]

Get an electrican to give you a quote - shouldn't be anywhere near what the power company estimated -

[oneokie]

Originally Posted by ArXane

I had pacific power out and tthey quoted 12,000 to add poles and a transformer to that shop.

If they are going to set a new pole and transformer for the shop building, have them put a meter on the pole and call it a new service. Should be a lot cheaper than $12K, even after paying a deposit for the new service.

[Rustaholic]

Originally Posted by ArXane

We just purchased a place that has a shop 400ft from the house without power. I had pacific power out and tthey quoted 12,000 to add poles and a transformer to that shop.

My question is this.....The house has a 200amp existing service I would like to have at least 100 amp service to the shop. What are some thoughts on accomplishing this without going through PP? I was thinking of adding a 400amp service and splitting it, 200 amp to existing panel to the house and bring the other 200 to shop by was of trenching/conduit.

Am I on the right track?

I believe the cost of running that 4-0 line over 400 feet will shock you.
A far better choice is a generator. An LP one or a LP conversion on a gas one is what I would do. Besides you are going to have quite a voltage drop in 400 feet and that means heat in the conduit. LPG does not go bad like gasoline does. So, It lasts longer and burns cleaner which is better for your generator. I have done my time as an electrician's helper.

[||Downhome||]

You could also use the LP for Heating...

[Travis in Louisiana]

Rule of Thumb, for every 100 feet you go, the wire size needs to increase one size to cut down on voltage drop. This does not mean, the wire size changes every 100 feet, it means for the 400 foot run, the wire needs to be the larger size. I have 60 amps at my shop. I can only use one tool at a time. Could you use something around 60 amps also, instead of 100 amps? It would keep the wire size down. I do second the thought of having a separate meter put in at the shop. If you do run the wire, you may only need three wires in the run. Two hot, and one neutral. With the sub panel so far from the main panel, it can have its own SAFETY ground at the shop. You would have to separate the neutral wires from the BARE copper safety side. I would check with an electrician if you choose to run the wire from the main panel, but it looks like it would be COSTLY!

[Jim-mi]

With the right kind of wire you wont need conduit. Go find out what 4-O and a good size trencher is going to cost you.
Use a line side tap and don't bother going to the 400 amp service.

[Oldcountryboy]

How big of a shop is it going to be and how much equipment will be used at one time? I agree with the 60 amp service. Run a 100 amp service cable underground to a 10" X 10" box on the outside wall of the shop and splice connect a #6 cable onto the 100 amp service cable that would run to the shops breaker box. This way you shouldn't have to worry about too much voltage drop. This would really be a 60 amp service which you can run quit a bit on 60 amps.

If you connect a copper #6 cable to aluminum wire from your 100 amp service, you will need to coat the wires with Nolox creme to keep them from corroding. Also wrap the splice connectors with rubber tape and then again with 3m electrical tape. Should last for years.

Also, if you run your service underground, always run it inside gray pvc conduit. Around here in my neck of the woods, just burying it alone only last about 10 years before a rock will work its way into the cable. Creating a short to ground and then you'll have to replace the whole underground service again. Well worth the money to make it last 2 or 3 times longer by using pvc pipe.

[ArXane]

Wow what great responses. The shop size is 40x60. I will have a welder a freezer air compressor and ssome smaller items. I was planning to have an electrician. Give me a quote on setting it up and I would do the running power and trenching. I don't believe 60amp would be enough for what I want though.....

[Harry Chickpea]

I did the trenching for our power and laid the (utility supplied) wire in 4" PVC with the help of a couple of rent-a-laborers and a rented backhoe. Even like that it was not cheap. I spent more on an entrance box that was set up for TWO 200 amp feeds, so that when time comes for a shop or outbuilding I'm already set.

I'll say flat out that there is no way I would run a sub off the main entrance near the house to a shop 400' away. Motors there are going to run hot or stall. For small stuff like the freezer you could run a line conditioner, but it is better to do some jobs right and pay a little extra up front instead of having continuing headaches down the road.

[Yvonne's hubby]

Originally Posted by ArXane

Wow what great responses. The shop size is 40x60. I will have a welder a freezer air compressor and ssome smaller items. I was planning to have an electrician. Give me a quote on setting it up and I would do the running power and trenching. I don't believe 60amp would be enough for what I want though.....

I have 50 amp service in my garage, and run a welder, (lincoln buzz box, 32 amp), freezer and all my other power tools without any problems. From the shop I also have a line run through a 30 amp breaker in the shop panel to a travel trailer which also uses quite a bit of power when the A/C kicks on. It all runs through a 50 amp breaker at the main... roughly 80 ft to the shop, then another 50 ft to the trailer. I have never tripped either of those breakers using power. These lines are all buried in schedule 40 conduit.

[Yvonne's hubby]

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

I did the trenching for our power and laid the (utility supplied) wire in 4" PVC with the help of a couple of rent-a-laborers and a rented backhoe. Even like that it was not cheap. I spent more on an entrance box that was set up for TWO 200 amp feeds, so that when time comes for a shop or outbuilding I'm already set.

I'll say flat out that there is no way I would run a sub off the main entrance near the house to a shop 400' away. Motors there are going to run hot or stall. For small stuff like the freezer you could run a line conditioner, but it is better to do some jobs right and pay a little extra up front instead of having continuing headaches down the road.

I have to agree with you here, 400 ft is a long way to run power, even on heavy lines there may be quite a bit of voltage drop. Things will work, but running on low voltage can be rough on equipment. In my area the power company will set a pole and transformer for a new service for less than a grand as long as they arent having to string more than 1000 ft of wire. Its something like $2 per foot for anything over the first 1000. 12k seems really high to me for 400 ft.

[ArXane]

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

I have to agree with you here, 400 ft is a long way to run power, even on heavy lines there may be quite a bit of voltage drop. Things will work, but running on low voltage can be rough on equipment. In my area the power company will set a pole and transformer for a new service for less than a grand as long as they arent having to string more than 1000 ft of wire. Its something like $2 per foot for anything over the first 1000. 12k seems really high to me for 400 ft.

Going through the power company is what wanted. They looked at two different options going overhead and burial. Both putting a transformer next to the shop. They said each pole is $2000 and transformer is $3000. If going underground I would have to do trenching and conduit. Quotes were $12k and $15k. That's why we are trying to get other options.

I just wanted to get some ideas here first before I called an electrician so I did t waste there time if There no way to safely get power there withought going through power company.

[Yvonne's hubby]

Originally Posted by ArXane

Going through the power company is what wanted. They looked at two different options going overhead and burial. Both putting a transformer next to the shop. They said each pole is $2000 and transformer is $3000. If going underground I would have to do trenching and conduit. Quotes were $12k and $15k. That's why we are trying to get other options.

I just wanted to get some ideas here first before I called an electrician so I did t waste there time if There no way to safely get power there withought going through power company.

I can understand wanting other options if those kind of quotes are what you have to put up with! From the sound of things setting a pole near your shop and going overhead would cost you 5k, surely the power company can run a 400 ft span setting only one pole. That way you can have plenty of safe power, with no voltage drops involved.

[ArXane]

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

I can understand wanting other options if those kind of quotes are what you have to put up with! From the sound of things setting a pole near your shop and going overhead would cost you 5k, surely the power company can run a 400 ft span setting only one pole. That way you can have plenty of safe power, with no voltage drops involved.

Nope, the overhead was the 15K quote. They said they needed at least 4 poles, and tie backs due to the incline, thats really not that bad as far as im concerend. The burial was the 12K. Id spend 5K in a hearbeat to have safe power.....