Repairing/Replacing Bathroom Ceramic Tile

[MoonRiver]

The bathroom is a mess and needs some major work. I've replaced the light fixture (with a little help from you guys) and am almost ready to tackle the tile. I'm going to paint first, and should get that done in the next couple of days.

Here's the tile problem(s).





The pictures don't show how bad it really is. In the 1st picture, there is a step like you see in bricks when the foundation settles. I imagine that is what happened here.

In the 2nd picture, the tiles started pushing in. Whatever board is behind it, is either damaged or loose. The problem is that the access to the back of the bathtub is blocked by the hot water heater. The tiles around the faucet weren't cut very well.



The tile extends all the way around the bathroom (4 sides). It is in good shape every where but around the tub area and only from a height of about 3 feet. In other words, there are 3 areas that need to have the tile taken off and "reglued" and new gout put on, but the rest of the bathroom is fine.

An additional problem that I would like to fix, but only if it doesn't cost too much, is that the walls and tub are cold in the winter. I'd like to insulate the walls while replacing the tiles. Any way it can be done without removing the backing board/cement board?

If it was just a couple of tiles, I would take them out and replace them, but this is 15-20 tiles. A few I might be able to just re-grout, but I'm guessing there is a good chance water has gotten behind the tiles.

So what is the best way to determine how extensive a repair job this is? If I have to pay someone to do it, I will. But I've never done tile before and would like to give it a try.

[Sawmill Jim]

Tile is easy once you start . Lowes web site has a good video on the how to do it .I always say i can buy the tools and learn cheaper than hiring someone to do things .

[Maura]

There may be a leak, or was a leak behind the bathtub fixtures. This needs to be fixed. Maybe it already has. The turn offs for the tub may be in the basement, if there is a basement. Look around where the turn offs should be, where there are pipes and such and see if you can find the turn offs for the tub.

Remove everything 3 tiles above the tub on that wall, including grout and board. Have a look see. Replace the board and tile (I would not try to match the tile, get something decorative that would look cool). If you haven't cut tile before, have a professional do it for you. Replace the fixtures, too.

[MoonRiver]

Originally Posted by Maura

There may be a leak, or was a leak behind the bathtub fixtures. This needs to be fixed. Maybe it already has. The turn offs for the tub may be in the basement, if there is a basement. Look around where the turn offs should be, where there are pipes and such and see if you can find the turn offs for the tub.

Remove everything 3 tiles above the tub on that wall, including grout and board. Have a look see. Replace the board and tile (I would not try to match the tile, get something decorative that would look cool). If you haven't cut tile before, have a professional do it for you. Replace the fixtures, too.

Are you saying just go ahead and remove the bottom 3 rows of tiles and the backer board? That probably would be the fastest way.

How do I transition from the old tile to new tile where they are offset? I think I will have to remove the tile on all 3 walls. Two walls are really bad and the other is repairable. But then I would have different color tile on the back and 1 side.

[Big Dave]

Tear it all out. Fix it right and it will not come back to bite you later. I redid our year before last. We tore it all out. Man it only took three days to put it all back. It looks good. I recommend this as it is how it worked for us. We did walls and floor. Curves even came out looking good. Just my .02

[Yvonne's hubby]

It looks like it was done pre backer board... green drywall at best. You either need to rip it all out and do it right.... or be prepared to do it again in just a couple years if you try to patch it. Me? I would toss it all, insulate the walls, and then put up new backer board over 3/4 marine ply, and tile all the way around. Anything less is asking for trouble down the road. After all the tile work is finished, then go ahead and select the colors you want and paint. Horses go in front of carts.

[MoonRiver]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Tear it all out. Fix it right and it will not come back to bite you later. I redid our year before last. We tore it all out. Man it only took three days to put it all back. It looks good. I recommend this as it is how it worked for us. We did walls and floor. Curves even came out looking good. Just my .02

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

It looks like it was done pre backer board... green drywall at best. You either need to rip it all out and do it right.... or be prepared to do it again in just a couple years if you try to patch it. Me? I would toss it all, insulate the walls, and then put up new backer board over 3/4 marine ply, and tile all the way around. Anything less is asking for trouble down the road. After all the tile work is finished, then go ahead and select the colors you want and paint. Horses go in front of carts.

If I rip it all out, I would have to gut the entire bathroom and that's not going to happen. I can see ripping out all the tiles and green drywall around the tub, but how do I match up the new tiles with the old tiles on the 2 sidewalls?

I will need over 400 4"x4" tiles just to do the bath. And if I tear down the wall, I probably need to replace the window at the same time. This is getting more expensive than I hoped for.

[plowjockey]

You could just cut out the bad stuff, put in backer board, clean and re-use the old tiles (if they are not broken.)

The hardest part will be to match the thickness, of both the backer board and the tile adhesive, so the replaced tiles are even with the originals ones.

There is a million "how-to's" on tile out there. It's relatively easy, IMO.

go for it.

[karenp]

My








My DH is in the process of replacing the tile in our bathroom, it was a gut job. All because the faucet leaked. (dripped, not leaked under the sink) Need a new faucet and thought well the sink is pretty chipped up let's replace that too. Got a good deal on a scrap piece of granite for the vanity and it went from there...It's the while we're at it we might as well... that gets me every time.

[KIT.S]

As far as matching tiles, there are some nice transition or accent pieces that can make a solid line so you don't have to match the existing tiles. Such as a raised rope, or a long patterned or textured piece, or a strip of little glass or colored tiles. These accent pieces work like a chair rail, and what is above them doesn't have to exactly match what's below them - different size or a coordinating color work just fine.
I'd suggest you buy a wet tile saw. It (used to be) only $100 or so, and if you need many tiles cut, it's great to have it right there on site rather than marking many tiles, taking them somewhere to be cut, then finding out the cut was supposed to be to the left of the mark, not the right. My tile saw has been used on a dozen different projects of mine and friends, and is still going strong with only one new blade.

I love tiling - it's impressive when finished, and not difficult to do. My one suggestion is to get a straight-edge such as a long ruler and lay it on top of the tiles as you set them, so that they are all even with each other - none is set deeper in the mastic than the others. Otherwise, it's pretty simple.

I also agree with the folks above who think there was no concrete backer board used in the original tile job. Not uncommon, unfortunately.
Kit

[Roadking]

Cutting tiles? Masonry blade on chop box. Piece o cake, but dusty as heck.

Matt

[BigHenTinyBrain]

Go to your nearest box hardware store- we always have luck with HD... they will have ONE kind of tile available as a close out (usually look in the darkest end display near the tile aisle). That ONE kind of tile will be around .30-.75 a square foot, and is actually likely to look okay, too. It WILL NOT be 4x4, more likely 9x9 or 12x12. Makes fewer tiles you have to place, so be happy.
Buy twice what you need, it should still be under $30.

Now go home, rip out ALL of the tile that is damaged and, honestly, probably all of the other tile as well. If it's all good above a certain height, or if a whole wall is all good you can probably leave that in place.
Repair, replace and be very sure to check for water leaks. Seal everything really well. Might take a week, might cost $150. If the tile was really ugly you might have to shell out an extra $25 for really nice new curtains.

It's a bathroom. Any partial fix is just going to come back to haunt you- and will cost twice as much to repair next time. The big problem people seem to have with bathroom tile is that they refuse to think outside of the (full price) box. Buy cheap tile, make your project easier.

[MoonRiver]

I've removed the bottom 3 tile rows on the 2 worst walls. Only 1/2" drywall behind it, which was badly damaged. Seemed to be confined just to the lower 3 rows. 2 cavities had a little insulation and the other 2 had none.

3 more rows to remove and then I can think about best way to proceed. Was able to remove about 2/3 of the tiles without breaking them. In other areas, I just took the hammer and smashed them out!

Thanks for all the ideas. As I move along on the project, it's nice to have all these options.

[FarmerRob]

In your first picture, is that black mold at the bottom. If so you want to be cautious when removing the tile as there may be some behind the tiles. Proper eye protection and a respirator (no, a dust mask won't do). I have been told that mold grows from the bottom up so if you encounter it you may need to remove much more tile above the first few rows. Where you have gaps around the faucets I would especially expect to find it there. There is a reason that it is called toxic mold. You don't want that stuff in your eyes or lungs. The EPA used to recommend treating with bleach but the last time I looked at their recommendations they had changed to advising complete removal and replacement of affected wood.

[Maura]

We just bought an old house and gutted the bathroom. However, the leak in the roof left a 3' x 3' hole above the bathtub. We are tiling the whole room. Things are different in tiling now. You can buy a membrane that is put over the drywall. You can buy wall board that is styrofoam and you just put tile over it. Do some homework whether you decide to patch or rip out.

The reason I suggested putting in new tile is because I think you will probably break at least one of them. You'll also need correctly sized holes for the faucets. You won't be able to match the old tile because the color has changed from age and minerals in the water. It will obviously be a patch job. If you get some pretty tiles (pictures on them for instance) it will be a decorative statement instead of an accident. But, if you are up to it, retile all of it. It will look great and you'll know it will last.

[TedH71]

Remove the bathroom tiled walls. Replace with drywall designed to be installed in an wet environment like bathrooms. Thicker too. Easy to find replacement tiles those days.

[MoonRiver]

I bought a sheet of backer board. They claim it is .5", but it is less than that. Only a problem because the existing drywall is .5" (actual). I talked with another customer at Lowes (couldn't find any salespeople) who suggested using paint sticks as spacers, so I grabbed a bunch.

I hope to insulate the walls and get backer board up on at least 2 walls today. I think cutting for the faucet is going to be a slow job, so that wwill probably be left until tomorrow.

[Yvonne's hubby]

Originally Posted by MoonRiver

If I rip it all out, I would have to gut the entire bathroom and that's not going to happen. I can see ripping out all the tiles and green drywall around the tub, but how do I match up the new tiles with the old tiles on the 2 sidewalls?

I will need over 400 4"x4" tiles just to do the bath. And if I tear down the wall, I probably need to replace the window at the same time. This is getting more expensive than I hoped for.

No need to gut the entire bathroom, just the three walls that surround the tub. As to matching tiles I wouldnt even consider that as an option as it would be nearly impossible to get a perfect match. I would go with something different for the tub area... a nice contrast type thing. I would still use backer board over a sheet of marine plywood. This will insure a solid long lasting surface for your new tile work to adhere too.

[Yvonne's hubby]

Originally Posted by MoonRiver

I bought a sheet of backer board. They claim it is .5", but it is less than that. Only a problem because the existing drywall is .5" (actual). I talked with another customer at Lowes (couldn't find any salespeople) who suggested using paint sticks as spacers, so I grabbed a bunch.

I hope to insulate the walls and get backer board up on at least 2 walls today. I think cutting for the faucet is going to be a slow job, so that wwill probably be left until tomorrow.

Hmmm, I hadnt read this far down when I made my last post.... using the paint sticks for spacers isnt all bad, at least you got the backerboard... thats much better than the green drywall.

[MoonRiver]

This is a tough job.

I was sitting on the edge of the tub, feet in the tub, scraping the old mortar off. Reached back behind me to get the scraper and slid backwards off the tub.

My butt got stuck between the bathtub and the toilet. Tried to get up, but there wasn't anything to grab on to, so I just lay there and laughed at the ridiculousness of it.

Finally got the step stool and vacuum cleaner pushed out of the way and was able to get up. 3 Aleve and my back is still hurting!