Advice??? Midlife Transition: From the suburbs to rural

jassar · #1 10/30/13, 11:32 AM

Hello everyone!

I have been stalking these forums for a few weeks and just love it! So, thanks to all of you that have made this such a great community.

My husband and I are moving from the Orange County, California suburbs to Northern Idaho in approximately 4-6 months. It has been our dream for close to 2 decades and we always allowed one excuse to get in the way: WORK.
In all truthfulness, it was fear. Fear of the culture shock, the unknown, failure, success...you name it. Fear sucks.

Anyway, we finally got over that hurdle and find ourselves ready to take the plunge at middle age. We are currently considering a few homestead properties (ranging from 5-20 acres, all with a house and various outbuildings, well, a spring and or creek and pond).

My husband is a contractor by trade, but will be working strictly on our property when we move. I will be continuing my work from a home office.

We have no farming experience. I have been organically growing veggies and fruits for about 5 years, learning as I go; And looking to learn more (especially interested in permaculture). We will start by concentrating on a garden and orchard. Our plan is to raise chickens for the eggs. Maybe add a couple goats as we learn our way around the lifestyle. Who knows where that will lead. While the homes we are considering are on grid, our goal is to convert as much to off grid as possible(we will keep a phone land line and internet for work).

So, we are probably on the "older" side for this type of life change. It is a little scary, but as lifetime entrepreneurs we are used to some risk here and there.

I was hoping that some others that made this type of move later in life could share their experiences and/or offer any advice relevant to our situation.

I wish we would have made this move when we were in our late 30's or early 40's and because of our late start, we won't be able to realize all of our dreams for the homestead, but that is ok. We are just so excited to begin our new life!

Thanks for reading and sharing
Janna

Rivmage · #2 10/30/13, 12:20 PM

Hi Jana,

I have no advice for you. The wife and I are thinking of doing a similar move hopefully sooner rather than later. Congrats on your new homestead and good luck.

Scott

jassar · #3 10/30/13, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivmage

Hi Jana,

I have no advice for you. The wife and I are thinking of doing a similar move hopefully sooner rather than later. Congrats on your new homestead and good luck.

Scott

Good luck Scott! I hope you realize your dream soon

jennigrey · #4 10/30/13, 12:43 PM

Neighbors and community are super-important. You won't realize how important until it impinges on your little slice of heaven. Anywhere you are thinking about buying land, go knock on doors and talk to folks to get a feel for the character of the place and also inquire about development/neighborhood issues. I've talked to a couple of people thinking about moving out to my neighborhood and I was happy to share my thoughts about the pros and cons of living here. Also some "if I had it to do again" types advice.

I'd like to start a list of things to ask about when considering moving to an area. Hoping others will chime in. Sure, things can change after you move in but it's the pre-existing ones you overlooked before you signed on the dotted line that will really

Crime / theft at homes and farms. Any chronic problems in this area? Are people stealing copper? Tools? Gas? Livestock? Poaching? Is there a meth lab problem in your area?

Water quality/availability. Where's the water table? What's the well water like? Is it easy to hit a good well or is it hit-and-miss?

Expansion - is city water and sewer planned to come out this way? Anyone been talking about it? Can you get phone? Cable? Broadband internet?

Cell phone reception. Check yours at the property if this is important to you.

Fire department - are there hydrants near your place or will the fire department have to bring tankers? Are they well-staffed? Does this matter?

Feed stores/hardware stores in the area. If you have to mail order everything and wait a week, this can be a real problem for folks who are building their own or fixing an existing home.

Subdividing and road expansion. What's the minimum lot size in your potential homestead area? Any real drive to get that lowered? Has anyone nearby sold to developers? Find out what the setback is on any roads that might border your place. You could find out that your lovely old barn is in the path of the bulldozer if the road came to need to be widened.

What's upstream? What's upwind? This applies to traffic, water, air.

Any industrial activity nearby? What are the potential pollutants from that industry?

How often does the neighborhood lose power?

Building restrictions, animal husbandry restrictions. Minimum building size for residency. What requires a permit?

.......

jennigrey · #5 10/30/13, 12:47 PM

If there's surface water on the property, does it dry up? Does it flood? Is there an oversight agency that is going to be breathing down your neck about structures and animals and water quality?

When did the well last need anything done to it? How many GPM? Has the seller ever had a water analysis done on it? Is it enough to irrigate with? Alternately, if you need to irrigate, is there ditch water available? Do you have water rights? How much do you have to pay for irrigation water? Will the existing pump raise the water to the part of the property you want it?

How's the septic system? Where is the leach field? Is it healthy? Who installed it and when?

Maura · #6 10/30/13, 12:51 PM

There is a book on homebuilding called, Building for a Lifetime. We used many of the ideas when we built our current home and as we are remodelling our retirement home. Building for a lifetime means thinking in terms of yourself at age 80. Building for the possibility that you will need a walker or a wheelchair, that you won't be able to reach the top shelves, that you won't be able to shovel the driveway or mow the lawn.

This is what you need to do now in building your homestead. How can you make your gardens accessible when you can't bend over? Your initial gardens can be traditional, but think about changing them gradually into raised beds. Your orchard trees should be pruned so that you can get the fruit with a stepladder, not a cherry picker. Your animals should be pasture raised so you aren't mucking out a barn and moving hay all year round. How would you move hay or animals if you were arthritic and had loss of muscle? Is the stairway in the house (if 2 story or if it has a basement) wide enough to put in a lift or stair chair? Is the heating system good? Forced hot air is not as cozy as radiant.

When you are ready to decide on an area, visit the high school. Are there guards? Do the kids walk around with their heads up or their heads down? Poor is as poor does and economic level is not enough of an indicator of quality of life. Do people support the school system? This is an indicator of people supporting the community. Go to a couple of neighbors when you are settling on a place and ask them if they know of any problems with it. This helps you find out if the neighbors are friendly.

Molly Mckee · #7 10/30/13, 01:06 PM

One caution, if you need the internet for work be sure all properties have access. With the mountains there are areas where it is hard to have high speed internet.

jassar · #8 10/30/13, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennigrey

Neighbors and community are super-important. You won't realize how important until it impinges on your little slice of heaven. Anywhere you are thinking about buying land, go knock on doors and talk to folks to get a feel for the character of the place and also inquire about development/neighborhood issues. I've talked to a couple of people thinking about moving out to my neighborhood and I was happy to share my thoughts about the pros and cons of living here. Also some "if I had it to do again" types advice.

I'd like to start a list of things to ask about when considering moving to an area. Hoping others will chime in. Sure, things can change after you move in but it's the pre-existing ones you overlooked before you signed on the dotted line that will really

Crime / theft at homes and farms. Any chronic problems in this area? Are people stealing copper? Tools? Gas? Livestock? Poaching? Is there a meth lab problem in your area?

Water quality/availability. Where's the water table? What's the well water like? Is it easy to hit a good well or is it hit-and-miss?

Expansion - is city water and sewer planned to come out this way? Anyone been talking about it? Can you get phone? Cable? Broadband internet?

Cell phone reception. Check yours at the property if this is important to you.

Fire department - are there hydrants near your place or will the fire department have to bring tankers? Are they well-staffed? Does this matter?

Feed stores/hardware stores in the area. If you have to mail order everything and wait a week, this can be a real problem for folks who are building their own or fixing an existing home.

Subdividing and road expansion. What's the minimum lot size in your potential homestead area? Any real drive to get that lowered? Has anyone nearby sold to developers? Find out what the setback is on any roads that might border your place. You could find out that your lovely old barn is in the path of the bulldozer if the road came to need to be widened.

What's upstream? What's upwind? This applies to traffic, water, air.

Any industrial activity nearby? What are the potential pollutants from that industry?

How often does the neighborhood lose power?

Building restrictions, animal husbandry restrictions. Minimum building size for residency. What requires a permit?

.......

Wow!! Jenni, Thank you! We have a list started and missing some of the items you list. I am very excited to see what others add.

When approaching neighbors, is it "ok" to just drive up someone's private road and knock on the door? I know this sounds like a stupid question ....

jassar · #9 10/30/13, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maura

There is a book on homebuilding called, Building for a Lifetime. We used many of the ideas when we built our current home and as we are remodelling our retirement home. Building for a lifetime means thinking in terms of yourself at age 80. Building for the possibility that you will need a walker or a wheelchair, that you won't be able to reach the top shelves, that you won't be able to shovel the driveway or mow the lawn.

This is what you need to do now in building your homestead. How can you make your gardens accessible when you can't bend over? Your initial gardens can be traditional, but think about changing them gradually into raised beds. Your orchard trees should be pruned so that you can get the fruit with a stepladder, not a cherry picker. Your animals should be pasture raised so you aren't mucking out a barn and moving hay all year round. How would you move hay or animals if you were arthritic and had loss of muscle? Is the stairway in the house (if 2 story or if it has a basement) wide enough to put in a lift or stair chair? Is the heating system good? Forced hot air is not as cozy as radiant.

When you are ready to decide on an area, visit the high school. Are there guards? Do the kids walk around with their heads up or their heads down? Poor is as poor does and economic level is not enough of an indicator of quality of life. Do people support the school system? This is an indicator of people supporting the community. Go to a couple of neighbors when you are settling on a place and ask them if they know of any problems with it. This helps you find out if the neighbors are friendly.

Maura, excellent advice on driving by the high school. That is another one we had not thought of. I am checking out the book at Amazon right now!

Many thanks!
Janna

jassar · #10 10/30/13, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennigrey

If there's surface water on the property, does it dry up? Does it flood? Is there an oversight agency that is going to be breathing down your neck about structures and animals and water quality?

When did the well last need anything done to it? How many GPM? Has the seller ever had a water analysis done on it? Is it enough to irrigate with? Alternately, if you need to irrigate, is there ditch water available? Do you have water rights? How much do you have to pay for irrigation water? Will the existing pump raise the water to the part of the property you want it?

How's the septic system? Where is the leach field? Is it healthy? Who installed it and when?

I really appreciate the detail on water questions! This is an area where we have felt unsure of what to ask. .... Pay for irrigation water, now that is something we have not been exposed to in the city, water is water out here.

Leach field? Time to hit Google again.

Thank you again Jenni!

Grumpy old man · #11 10/30/13, 02:14 PM

Be aware rural folks aren't impressed with fancy clothes and tons of jewelry ,it's just the opposite of Orange county ,You will be more welcomed in jeans boots and a Carhart jacket . The addition of a small amount of manure on your boots is considered cologne in these parts

jassar · #12 10/30/13, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

Be aware rural folks aren't impressed with fancy clothes and tons of jewelry ,it's just the opposite of Orange county ,You will be more welcomed in jeans boots and a Carhart jacket . The addition of a small amount of manure on your boots is considered cologne in these parts

Hi Grumpy

This is one reason we have always wanted out of OC. Both born in the wrong part of the country, and probably the wrong century to boot!

We don't do fancy or jewelry or parties or the "latest this or that".... My husband wears Tshirts, jeans and his NRA hat(in OC that can be risky...hehe ) every dang day! Though he does take off his hat if we go out for dinner

Grumpy old man · #13 10/30/13, 02:41 PM

When you find your place work on "Making nice" with the neighbors .They can be a blessing or you're worst nightmare .I had a new neighbor who was just a jerk and his kid threw rocks at the cows so I put the pigs along his fence ! They moved in 6 months and the "new" neighbors have been great .

jassar · #14 10/30/13, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

When you find your place work on "Making nice" with the neighbors .They can be a blessing or you're worst nightmare .I had a new neighbor who was just a jerk and his kid threw rocks at the cows so I put the pigs along his fence ! They moved in 6 months and the "new" neighbors have been great .

ROFL
love it!

Buffy in Dallas · #15 10/30/13, 09:35 PM

More questions for you...
Is there Fracking in the area that could contaminate the ground water in a well?
Is it legal to collect rainwater?

I suggest you read everything you can get your hands on and study something at least 6 mos. before you dive in. Example-chickens. If you have never had chickens read everything you can get your hands on and make sure you have everything prepared before you buy them.

Once you know what property you will be on then do a permaculture plan for the whole thing. You may want to change the plans a bit once you have lived on the property and seen its idiosyncrasies. I just got my Permaculture design cert. last month from Geoff Lawton and did a plan for my 14 acres.

Tacoma · #16 10/30/13, 10:19 PM

For me, leaving a city behind, I went to the local grocery stores and watched the people. I learned a lot, really. I also explored the local agriculture extension office and found classes I could take. After 30 years, I have no regrets. Property tax increases have been the hardest single item to keep up with as it really takes a bite out of my annual income now, so think about that when you are deciding on how many acres you want because if you are going to build, you can count on your taxes going up.

maddy · #17 10/31/13, 08:53 AM

I took exactly the plunge you're talking about three years ago, only I was a single woman in my mid-fifties. It's been a nearly vertical learning curve, but I'd never go back.

I could offer reams of advice about a whole lot of things, but the single most important thing I learned (and did right) had to do with the building of relationships. I took the time to introduce myself to literally everyone with whom I came in contact, and to find out about their lives. When I met a neighbor, I would always tell them, "You let me know if you ever need any help." The farmer-types around here must have gotten quite a chuckle out of that, coming as it did from a middle-aged woman with no equipment or country skills to speak of. But I think my attitude was meaningful to them because I have wonderful relationships with all my neighbors and have never felt excluded as so many other newcomers in this area have been. Of course, I've always followed up on my promise. Whenever I hear a chainsaw start up or see a cow wandering down the road, I drop what I'm doing, put on a pair of gloves, and get out there to help.

I think it also helped that I quickly identified myself as a real worker. For three years running, I cleared snow from a 500-foot driveway using a scooper-shovel (a 5-6-hour project), moved things from one end of the property to another with a wheelbarrow, took trees down with a handsaw, and basically made a spectacle of myself by doing nearly everything by hand and without complaining. When neighbors came around wondering if I was okay doing this or that by hand, I'd just give them a big smile (even if I felt like I was ready to drop dead) and tell them, "I'm doing just fine--Besides, it builds character!" I was slow to accept help and made a point of always giving more than I took. I think that attitude did a lot to help me to fit in.

Wolf mom · #18 10/31/13, 09:18 AM

Stay here and learn!!
Go Slow!
Ask lots of questions - you'll get multiple answers , some conflicting, then do what you think best
You will most likely never get the "perfect" property or have the perfect neighbors - but that's OK
When things turn upside down, find the good and remember this too, shall pass.

When I was 60 I moved by myself from the city to a very rural area. Never looked back. Didn't go slow & there are things I wish I had done differently - but that's OK - Life is a balance & it's good.

ronbre · #19 10/31/13, 09:32 AM

wishing you the best..as you are aging you might keep an eye out for things that will be helpful as you age..like having things on one story, etc..

I suggest reading Gaia's Garden by Toby Hemenway before moving..or buying.

I suggest after you move picking up a copy of The encyclopedia of country living by Carla emery ..buy it.

water and decent soil are of utmost importance, neighbors are something to look at..security in the area etc...also look for growth of things that are BAD

my nephew bought a piece of land full of wild cherry trees, and wanted goats and cattle..wild cherry are poison to them..gotta think of things like that

campfiregirl · #20 10/31/13, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddy

But I think my attitude was meaningful to them because I have wonderful relationships with all my neighbors and have never felt excluded as so many other newcomers in this area have been. Of course, I've always followed up on my promise. Whenever I hear a chainsaw start up or see a cow wandering down the road, I drop what I'm doing, put on a pair of gloves, and get out there to help...
When neighbors came around wondering if I was okay doing this or that by hand, I'd just give them a big smile (even if I felt like I was ready to drop dead) and tell them, "I'm doing just fine--Besides, it builds character!" I was slow to accept help and made a point of always giving more than I took. I think that attitude did a lot to help me to fit in.

I agree - showing what you're "made of" is what is going to instill trust.