How much property do we need?

[hamster0601]

My husband and I are looking at purchasing a house on some property with the intent of raising and growing our own food. We're a little hung up on exactly how much property we need.

We know we would like to have a sizable garden, a couple of pigs, and chickens. We're also interested in a dairy cow, as well as a beef cow for slaughter each year.

Based on this, what do you all recommend as a minimum acreage? We're in the Willamette Valley of Oregon.

[simi-steading]

As much as you can possibly afford... The more you have, the larger the barrier from neighbors, and the more livestock you can support.. or hunt.. or timber, or .....

[KCFLY]

Figure out how many acres you can afford, and then find a way to double that.

You will find ways to use land when you have it.

[Harry Chickpea]

No. Buy more = pay more taxes. Unless you are in a place with low taxes or exemptions, buying big may not be wise.

The real question is "How GOOD is the land?" You can buy goat lots that are great for trees, goats, and rockslides. You can buy bottomland that is good growing until it floods. You can buy land that was old walnut orchard that won't grow much of anything. You can buy land that sits in the shade much of the year.

Cattle want a couple acres each (much more in dry or scrub). A garden doesn't take up much space at all. One that is 100' x 100' will keep you busy.

[hamster0601]

I agree, more is better. If we have extra land I have no doubt well utilize it, but I want to make sure we have enough to do what we want on a minimum level.

It does seem like most of the property in our area is very heavily forested, or dry and open set up as pasture.

[GunMonkeyIntl]

I think, to Harry Chickpea's point, not all land is created equal, so no answer of "X acres" will really guarantee you get what you need.

A better approach would be to create a checklist, like most "normal" folks use when shopping for their dream McMansion situated on a cul-de-sac but, instead of things like:
1 - vaulted ceilings
2 - in-ground pool
3 - BIG backyard (at least 1/8 acre)

List things like:
1 - Dairy cow - barn, 2 acres pasture
2 - 1x beef cow/ yr. - 2 MORE acres pasture
3 - 100 x 100' plot suitable for garden
4 - 10 acres timber
5 - 2 acres for orchard
6 - creek or pond
etc.

Then look for properties that meet all or most of those criteria. You may find a 50 acre plot that gives you everything on the list except the water, but has zero tillable space, and will have to be cleared. And you may find a 10 acre plot that meets all of those needs right out of the gate. You should already be thinking about how you would use the land as you're walking each prospective property.

You'll know you found the perfect spot when it answers every item on your list AND has a bit more - a couple extra acres of pasture, or an extra barn - that is left to whims of your imagination.

[DEKE01]

all good answers above. Buy as much as you can reasonably afford but include ongoing costs of upkeep, taxes, etc, More land may mean more fencing which might be a deal breaker for you. If you want pastures, buy pastures. DOn't think you can economically clear forested land and convert it to pasture quickly. Even if you timber it and get a great price for the trees, pulling stumps is a big job that requires lots of time or heavy equipment like dozers or backhoes.

Gunmonkey gave you a good thinking piece on how to calculate acreage needs. Check with a local extension agent or old time farmer to see what your land carrying capacity is. Two acres is a good staring point for well maintained, productive pasture that has had 3 years or more to develop a healthy root system. If you have a rocky mess, too many trees, wet lands pastures that are only good 6 months a year, you have to start adding acres.

I think most people on HT will tell you that once you get started on this adventure, you'll want to do more things that require more land. Or you'll want separation from neighbors who don't share your love of home grown pork.

You can add chickens on to the same land as cattle, pigs, or other livestock and get eggs and meat for very low cost. A small flock that free ranges most of the day can exist on zero bought feed and the scraps from your kitchen and garden.

[Callieslamb]

It would help if we knew what area of the country you were considering. An acre in Wyoming isn't like an acre in Indiana or Kentucky.

[airotciv]

We also live in the Willamette Valley and down sized 14 years ago to 5 acers. It's not what you can afford, its what you can take care of. We still have to have a tractor with a tiller and bucket along with other things. We have goats, sheep, 1 steer, ducks and chickens, now what is the vet bill a year (ducks, chickens don't count) about $500.00 -$1000.00 for shots, hurt animals, etc and this is not counting the dogs. We have not been on vacation foe 14 years, because there is a barn, fence or something else that needs to be fixed. Would I change my life? NO, just know what your getting into.

[edcopp]

A lot depends on how much cash you have on hand right now. We often get our needs and wants mixed up. Three acres paid for, is a lot better than 30 acres in foreclosure.

[Maura]

Hamster, it would be helpful if you told us where you live. Go to your User CP and put your state in. I agree that land quality is more important than land size. You can feed your family on a suburban lot with gardens and chickens or ducks. As you look at size and quality, keep in mind that you can buy someone else's 18 month old steer. Many small farmers grow a few cattle every year and keep them on pasture. If you have a source for the beef, you can focus on a smaller lot.

Do you know how to improve the soil? You may find a great house, great location, but mid grade rather than great soil. How big of a garden do you need? Realistically think about how many tomatoes you eat in a year, how many carrots, potatoes, etc. How many eggs do you usually eat in a week?

[hamster0601]

Ok, I updated my profile to include my location.

We currently own about 1/3 acre, in town. We have 4 raised garden beds and have 4 chickens. Provided the chickens don't go broody or molt, they provide about the perfect amount of eggs for the two of us. The garden beds produce a pretty good amount, but we could use always use more vegetables that store or preserve well. While we do have a good source for free range broiler chickens and a half side of beef, we'd prefer to be able to raise those on our own if we had the space. We do not have a reliable source for dairy or pork at this point. While we realize it may not be the most cost effective to do this on our own, we both get a great deal of satisfaction out of knowing that egg on my breakfast plate came from my backyard from the chickens we raise.

We don't know how to improve soil, or really much at all in regards to this kind of stuff. We do a great job with the garden and chickens, but adding cows and acres of property is a whole different level. I get that, and understand our level of property management is going to increase drastically. That's ok with us. We just want to make sure we can get the property we need in order to do the bare minimum we want, as mentioned in the OP. Generally speaking, the top end of our budget seems to get us about 5 acres. We aren't looking at anything less than 2, but it seems like 3-4 should be closer to our minimum lot size.

I know what to look for in terms of a physical house, but what should we look for in terms of soil quality, land, etc? We looked at one house that seemed like it had a terrible field, but had half a dozen horses on it, so maybe it wasn't so bad? We unfortunately found what we believed to be the perfect property, but there was an underground spring that soaked an estimated 25-30% of the property in the winter/spring, and without being able to see it firsthand, we weren't willing to take the risk. It's off the market now.

[GunMonkeyIntl]

Originally Posted by hamster0601

... We just want to make sure we can get the property we need in order to do the bare minimum we want, as mentioned in the OP. Generally speaking, the top end of our budget seems to get us about 5 acres. We aren't looking at anything less than 2, but it seems like 3-4 should be closer to our minimum lot size...

Not saying you can't pull off everything in your OP, but the 5 acres would have to be absolutely PERFECT to squeeze it all in there. If you put 4 acres in pasture for the two cows, another 1/2 acre for the garden and chickens, you'd have just e ought room for a house and barn, and maybe squeeze a driveway in between them. It could likely be done, but would be tight.

More likely, you need to either pare back you list of things you want to do, or change where/what properties you are looking at to be able to get a little more room.

[farmerDale]

The more the better. I can't fathom living on a few acres and having neighbors breathing down my neck.

[Funbowhunter]

You should research goats for milk. Some have very light tasting milk while others have strong taste. The lighter will give less cream, but you won't have too much milk that you have to throw it out. You could then have a steer for meat and supplement that with goat meat from bucks. That way you can do more with less land.

[chamoisee]

I personally don't recommend cows, unless you have excess milk (such as from goats) and need to raise calves on it rather than throw it away, or have a huge family that is going to drink several gallons of milk per day and will not drink goat milk. Cows need a lot of land, they are more delicate than other livestock, there are more plants that they cannot eat, etc...and they require a lot more land than other livestock, and more feed.

If the land is good, fertile, enough water, I wouldn't buy more than 10 acres unless you are going to farm it full time. You can get a LOT done on 5 acres.

[paul98604]

I live in Battle Ground, Wa so we're not far from you, at least not when you consider a forum like this, and we just purchased a small farm three years ago. My first piece of advice is take your time, there are plenty of properties out there and save your money, you're going to need it. . I agree with the others to purchase as much as reasonably possible but also understand the cost of the learning curve. It's sort of what I call "soft costs". Fencing, equipment, feed costs, vet bills etc. don't let that discourage you there's a lot of ways to reduce those costs but just be aware of them.
Look for the quality of the land first, especially the drainage (which you mentioned earlier). I looked at a twenty acre property in late summer and loved it but never thought of drainage. I'm from PA and drainage wasn't an issue there like out here. I didn't buy it for other reasons but drove by in the late fall after the rain started and it was nothing but a swamp. Their horses couldn't even be on the pasture. Look at the elevation as we are in the foothills of the Cascades and we kind of have our own little micro-climate that changes the growing season. We are on a south facing slope which provides us with much more sun than our neighbor who is on the north facing hill and gets little sun in the winter. Sun is important here, as I'm sure you know! We have very rocky soil on half of our property (10acres) which is pasture and fir trees. It's great for pigs, beef and firewood but gardening on it would require a lot of soil amending and it would be difficult. The other half of our property has a large pond for irrigation and good areas without rocks that make great gardening areas.

I spent a lot of time looking at the properties I was thinking of buying at different times of the day. Watch the neighbors after they get home from work. Talk to them. You're going to have to "live" with them. Watch the traffic. One house I looked at had a main road in front of it. It was quiet until rush hour then it was like a freeway. I didn't like that but if you want to set up a small market stand it would be perfect. Another one was really quiet until the neighbor's ten kids got home (I'm exaggerating slightly) but you get the idea. I love kids but when the four wheelers came out I realized that I wanted more peace and quiet than that place would offer. We also talked to our neighbor, before we moved in, who has beef cattle to see if he sprayed his fields. We didn't want to live on a chemical saturated property. Luckily he raises grass fed 99% organic beef. See if your neighbors are doing something similar to what you're thinking of doing. If your neighbors lawn looks like a golf course then they might give you a hard time if they wake up to see your pig messing up their "green" or you separate the calf from your dairy cow and they cry for each other for two days or your chickens start flinging mulch from their perfectly manicured flower bed.

Power lines are another thing to think about. BPA the power system in WA is looking for a power line route in our area. You can get online and see proposed routes. You want to talk about something that kills property value..have a power line installed through your land. On the other hand you can get great deals on properties that are through proposed zones. Just be aware of the possibility.

Anyway I think the five acres would be a great size but it will be tight to do all you want to do so you will need to make sure you can utilize every square foot of it. I would try to move near people who have larger properties, maybe bigger farms, and you could possibly rent land from your neighbors.

It's exciting looking for a new home! Take your time and enjoy the process.

[paul98604]

Another piece of advice. Test the soil if you want. We had friends who wanted to start an organic farm, CSA, etc and they actually took soil samples and their contract was contingent upon the results.

[Grumpy old man]

Originally Posted by simi-steading

As much as you can possibly afford... The more you have, the larger the barrier from neighbors, and the more livestock you can support.. or hunt.. or timber, or .....

This is the smartest way to go ! if you buy 5 acres 3 years from now you'll wish you had 15

[ronbre]

i would say if you are serious about the pigs and cows, you'll need at least 5 acres, maybe a little more