How to pump water up a hill?

happydog · #1 10/08/13, 04:03 PM

I see a lot of folks talking about how to get water out of a deep well. I have a different kind of water problem. My water comes from a mountain spring. The problem is, it's located about 700' downhill from my house. If we lose electricity, is there any good alternative to get that water up to my house? In contrast to most people's problem, in this case the water is practically on the surface of the ground. So it's not pulling it up vertically that's the problem. It's forcing it 700' up an incline.

Every solution I come up with seems to have a fatal flaw. The best thing we've come up with is a solar setup. But then there's the battery replacement problem. And naturally, the spring is in a heavily wooded area so the solar panel would be tricky to get sun on.

Anybody have any good ideas? I don't want to be lugging 5 gallon buckets of water up the hill to the house every day.

Harry Chickpea · #2 10/08/13, 05:45 PM

700' linear or 700' vertical?

Short term, the easy answer is a cistern. We use an 1100 gallon one and with normal use can go three weeks if need be. If it was a problem, we could easily go twice as long by doing laundry in town. Pump up, gravity feed from cistern.

If you don't have money for a cistern, a cheap above ground pool will work for most stuff, just get a couple food grade barrels for drinking water.

Once you have a cistern, you can just run a generator once every week or two to run the pumps.

Also, don't forget rainwater.

||Downhome|| · #3 10/08/13, 05:53 PM

ram pump!

Theres other options also.

There is another pump that works on water flow , I forget what its called but its like a double acting piston. a larger piston forces a smaller piston. the small piston is the "pump".

theres also spiral pumps.

And one last one I can think of is a rotary vane pump called the ez crank or crank ez.
you can run it off a drill. it pumps a tremendous amount of water at a low head.
So I'm thinking various holding tanks would be needed.

But best option would be to build a storage tank above the house and fill it when you have power.

unregistered41671 · #4 10/08/13, 05:56 PM

Look up "Ram Pump" on youtube. There are many you can build yourself. It may work.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/tra...uestion318.htm

http://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/h...z79mjzraw.aspx

||Downhome|| · #5 10/08/13, 06:29 PM

I found it, the pump I couldn't remember the name.

http://high-lifter.com/about_hl/abouthl.htm

They are not cheap though and a ram can be built for a whole lot less.

fishhead · #6 10/08/13, 06:33 PM

What is the vertical lift?

biggkidd · #7 10/08/13, 07:26 PM

If your talking about being out of water for a week or so I would get a 275 gallon tote. I see food grade ones on CL for around $100 new they are about $400. We have 4 of them and we go about 30 days before pumping again. Keep well covered or you will get algee (sp) or bleach the water. I find a cup of clorox per tank works well for up to 30 days. If you place it above your house you wont even have to have a pump for low pressure flow.

Larry
A World Away

Waterwheel Farm · #8 10/09/13, 03:47 PM

Most any kind of situation I can think of in your case will need some sort of reservoir at the spring location. If you just stick a pump in the spring it will probably pump itself dry pretty quick, unless you have a really good flowing spring. A spring feeds my house, but it's only about 300 feet from the spring at probably 60 feet of elevation. My spring runs into a buried cistern and the cistern just overflows into the creek when it gets full. There is a deepwell pump inside the cistern that pumps through an underground plastic line up to a pressure tank and pump switch at the house. The electric line is buried basically along the same path as the water line. 700 feet is a long run for electric, but doable depending on wire size and pump horsepower. You'd need to estimate the elevation from the spring to where you are pumping it. Rough estimate to use is it takes a pound of pressure from the pump to lift the water 2 feet. So if your house is 100 feet higher than your spring, 50 pounds of discharge pressure at the pump, it will barely trickle out at the house....80 pounds at the pump gives you 30 pounds at the house, and so on. Hope that helps...and these are rough numbers, and you may already know all this stuff.

Grumpy old man · #9 10/09/13, 03:53 PM

How about a wind mill ? flowing to a cistern ?

doingitmyself · #10 10/09/13, 04:08 PM

You could use a pulley, cable/rope and counter weighted cart to pull a lighter cart of water up the hill. I know its kinda a primitive idea but its also cheap and foolproof. KISS concept. You probably have all the things you need on hand now to do it.

Waterwheel Farm · #11 10/09/13, 04:21 PM

I think I mis-read the question...so you already have a water setup from the spring, just what to do if the power goes out? If that's the case, Harry's suggestion is probably the easier and most cost effective. They DO make deepwell hand pumps you could tie into the existing water line and hand pump it to the house, but I'd almost rather lug the buckets! I guess no way you can make a good enough trail to pull a small tank up and back from the spring with maybe a 4 wheeler or something?

wy_white_wolf · #12 10/10/13, 09:09 AM

Cistern at the house if you're looking for short term power outage solutions.

With the cistern one could also run a pump solar direct to fill it. No batteries needed. second pump or gravity would supply pressure to the house.

WWW

texican · #13 10/10/13, 09:01 PM

700' is a long ways for electricity... your going to need some large gauge wire, depending upon your pump...

Like others have mentioned, I'd build or buy a tank next to the house and pump water to the tank, and if the grid goes down, you still have water... maybe not much pressure, but still have water...

65284 · #14 10/10/13, 09:27 PM

The pump and tank idea would be okay when it's warm, what to do during freezing weather? Seems like you would have to enclose/insulate or bury the pump assembly, water line and holding tank.

fishhead · #15 10/11/13, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65284

The pump and tank idea would be okay when it's warm, what to do during freezing weather? Seems like you would have to enclose/insulate or bury the pump assembly, water line and holding tank.

I would recommend a gas pump at the spring. For freezing weather just leave the pipe on top of the ground and when you are done pumping disconnect the pump and walk down from the top raising the pipe as you go to empty any low spots in the pipe. I did that at my fish farm for years even in -30 F weather and that was on top of my relatively flat dikes. My pipe in that case was 4" thin wall PVC but it would work for 1 1/2" poly too. Just drain it as soon as you stop pumping.

Icenine · #16 10/11/13, 10:34 AM

Check out engineer775 and wranglerstar on YouTube.

Engineer775 builds grid down systems for a living and has some great videos on energy independent systems. Wranglerstar has great videos on implementation of a ram pump from a creek that has similar needs and distances you are discussing.

Also don't underestimate the value of rain water collection. Engineer775 has a great video on potable rain water storage.

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Harry Chickpea · #17 10/11/13, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

I would recommend a gas pump at the spring. For freezing weather just leave the pipe on top of the ground and when you are done pumping disconnect the pump and walk down from the top raising the pipe as you go to empty any low spots in the pipe. I did that at my fish farm for years even in -30 F weather and that was on top of my relatively flat dikes. My pipe in that case was 4" thin wall PVC but it would work for 1 1/2" poly too. Just drain it as soon as you stop pumping.

I do something similar. I have no foot valve at the creek, and when finished pumping, I let the pipe backflush and clean itself. If the day is much below freezing, I just wait until a warm spell to pump the next batch.

wy_white_wolf · #18 10/11/13, 01:23 PM

http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_waterpumping.html

wannabechef · #19 10/11/13, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

700' linear or 700' vertical?

Short term, the easy answer is a cistern. We use an 1100 gallon one and with normal use can go three weeks if need be. If it was a problem, we could easily go twice as long by doing laundry in town. Pump up, gravity feed from cistern.

If you don't have money for a cistern, a cheap above ground pool will work for most stuff, just get a couple food grade barrels for drinking water.

Once you have a cistern, you can just run a generator once every week or two to run the pumps.

Also, don't forget rainwater.

I was going to ask the same thing...makes a huge difference...700 linear no problem with a large pipe, 700' vertical and you will need a pusher pump...not sure if a jet pump will work.

I pump 50' vertical, 300' horizontal right now with a 5.5hp honda pump and with 1.5" pipe its all I can do to get 10 gallons per minute...I should have used 2" pipe. I still have to boost the pressure with a second irrigation pump powered by electricity.

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bja105 · #20 10/11/13, 04:48 PM

If you have an Amish community nearby, ask them who does their water work.

Both of my neighbors pump from springs with a lot of vertical and horizontal run. They have a clay dam, backfilled with gravel, and a pipe into a plastic cistern, where the foot valve and strainer draw water. A burried 1 1/2 poly pipe goes to the basement, where a pump powered by a Honda gasoline engine sits. Exhaust is piped outside. A pressure tank and pressure switch is like any other house, except the switch is connected to the engine's kill switch. When they need water pressure, they send a kid down to start the pump, and it shuts down on its own when pressure is sufficient.

Or you can give your kids two 5 gallon buckets each, and a speech about hard work and building character. Through in some "when I was your age" and "uphill both ways."