Tiny House Advice Needed

[Karen]

We're senior citzens who see no way out of debt in our current situation. We've come to the conclusion that we need to do whatever we need to do to be totally debt free; no matter how drastic the change will be. So we're considering tiny house living and here's the approx. plan:

We currently have a 12x16 amish barn shed. We would get another identical shed and join the 2 together with an enclosed 6'x5' breezeway (which would be kind of like a hallway between both ends of the house). Put it on an insulated foundation, insulate all the walls and roof and then drywall and paint the interior walls.

The #1 shed end would be open living/sleeping area with an enclosed corner bathroom (shower, toilet, sink). The #2 shed end would be an open plan with kitchen, office area, laundry, pantry. We're in Virginia--Zone 6a

Here's our questions:

1. What would be the least expensive, but best way for the money, to go in building a foundation and insulating it for the sheds to sit on?

2. Which would be the best for the size/layout of the house in the way of monthly cost of hot water. Conventional water heater or tankless on-demand water heater? If tankless, do we need one for the bathroom and another for the kitchen since they are on opposite sides of the house; or just one for both?

3. We're perplexed with what to do about heat and air conditioning. All in one unit like the have in motel rooms? Or something else. Would we need one in each side of the house? We'd eventually like put in solar; but will have to wait until we save more. We thought about a small woodburner, but space is really a problem.

4. We may put the house behind our daughter's home. They are on well and septic and would connect into their septic and well. We have been told we can do this is our house is designated as "recreational use" or "guest house". Since we're planning on doing some traveling we may be able to get by with that; but need to check further. But what would be the approximate guesstimate of how much it would cost to tie into their septic and well, if say the houses were approx. 75'-100' apart?

[Bellyman]

Just thinking about the two sheds with hallway...

For the materials needed, you might get a pretty good bang for the buck by expanding that "hallway". Something like 12' between the buildings and maybe 14' deep would give you some real estate in the middle that could be usable space while the two sheds would already be providing at least part of two of the walls for that space. I'm not sure what you have in mind for a roof line but it could get interesting.

Of course, if you're building the middle section, you can make it any size you want and adjust sizes for appearances.

The possibilities are quite extensive.

Expanding the "hallway", especially if you make the roof line high enough to have an attic, gives you some room for things like a water heater (solar assisted??) and maybe room for some heating (cooling?) apparatus, maybe a small heat pump? If not, maybe room for a centrally located tiny wood stove.

Not trying to rain on a parade or anything, but is this all good and legal with the local zoning folks? You mention VA and different parts of that state can be pretty radically different in what you are and are not allowed to do on your own property.

Just the thoughts that came to mind.

[Molly Mckee]

I would look into the new mini-split heat pumps. Most are made by Japanese companies, they have been used there for years. They are very efficient and cheap to operate and you have heating and cooling in one package. While they appear at first glance to be expensive to install, they qualify for tax credits and there are rebates available. Ours ended up costing us $300.00. The installed price was about $5000.00. Check with several places, we found installation varied greatly in price. Some of the contractors had raised their prices so they got most of the rebate.

[jwal10]

May be better to put bath in the end and kitchen along a shared wall for hot water. My town cottage was a carriage house 14'x24'. We added a 6' (inside measurement) leanto onto 1 side, 1/2 bath, 1/2 kitchenette. I would think it would be much better to have everything in 1 building for heat and AC. Leantos are easy to add. I would put the shed up on a pier and post crawlspace foundation, insulate the floor. Skirt the foundation posts.

We don't have or need AC. We use an Amish electric fireplace at our beach cabin. We leave the bedroom door about 1/2 open at night, closed during the day. The kitchen is at the front of the 11' wide x 22' long main room, 6' along front and inside wall, shared with bath, in an L shape. Kitchen table in corner. The 10'x20' leanto has the bath at the front, shares a wall with the kitchen. 10'x10' Bedroom with 10' closet at the back, shares wall with living, door between. You go in bedroom to access the 5'x10' bath. Front porch/door comes in off the north side for protection from rain and wind, into the living area. Deck and 2 sliding patio doors at back to take advantage of ocean views. It sets on concrete slab.

Here we can have a MIL cottage, without kitchen, hooked to existing well and septic.

[fishhead]

I would insulate the attic before insulating the foundation.

[Maura]

I agree that you'd get more bang for your buck by making the hall the full width of the "sheds". Put the bathroom in there and set up the plumbing so it is logical with the kitchen. I'd have the entry in this hallway, which will give you more living space in each shed. So, half the entry/hall is entry with a coat closet, the other half is your bathroom, which should be handicap accessible in case you ever need a walker or help bathing.

I would consider in-floor radiant heat. You'd need a good hot water heater, but you wouldn't need a furnace or wood burner. You can install it yourself, we did. You save money by installing it yourself and in the long run will save money on your heating. You can also run cold water through the system during the summer to cool your house. I suppose you'd need a dehumidifier.

With such a small house you don't need an on-demand/tankless water heater even if you are using it to also heat the house. The lines would be so short that waiting for hot water would not be an issue.

[calliemoonbeam]

I know in some places small shed type buildings don't have to meet any guidelines or have any permits because they're not considered a permanent structure, but the minute you set them on a concrete slab or basement that makes them permanent, and you have to get permits and meet codes, etc. I found that out when I checked on setting my tiny house on top of a poured basement, but every state is different, so check yours before spending any money in that area.

I've heard a lot of negatives about the on-demand hot water heaters, especially if you have hard water, which I do. I'm planning a tiny house myself, and until I can afford to go solar, my plan is a small conventional water heater. If you go tankless and can't get the bath and kitchen all in the same end, you'd probably need two units.

I want a small woodburner, but if it's not feasible I plan on a combo AC/heat window/wall unit, with a ceiling fan if possible to help circulate the air. For your setup, I'd say you'd need one in each end, but might not need to use them both all the time.

I can't help you at all with the hookups, as I have no experience and haven't researched it yet since I don't know exactly what my situation will be yet.

I also like the idea of a "breezeway" between two buildings that could maybe be made into another room later on, but I haven't figured out a good way to join the roof lines so you wouldn't have water standing or not draining correctly on a flat roof. If nothing else, I'd like to screen in the ends and have a nice shady screened-in porch in between.

Hope some of this helped. I'm sure there are people who know a lot more about it, but just thought I'd throw in my two cents since you haven't gotten many replies, lol. Good luck!

[fishhead]

I've read that some homes in the south have what's called a 'dog leg' or something like that. It consists of joining two buildings like you are proposing with a roof. That creates air movement so there is usually a slight breeze in the opening between the buildings.

[SugarMag]

Oh, that mini-split is wicked cool!
I'd like one of those myself.

[blooba]

As someone with 2 houses connected with a hallway I would recommend you plan this out very carefully.

Few things i hate about my setup.

1. The "new" house was built higher than the old house for flooding reasons. Which create 2 steps. I HATE THOSE STEPS!!!

2. The danged thing is too narrow. (3ft) cant get furniture or anything through it because at the end of the hallway it bends around a corner before you get to the living room.

3. The roof is a nightmare. I guess if you put the hallway on the gable ends it wouldnt be so bad but with mine its not and not only is it a nightmare to re roof but leaves and whatnot gather there.

4. The space between the houses was just wasted space. It never got sun so it never dried out so it was always muddy. It always gathered all the leaves there. I finally built a deck between them but it is still to wet and dirty to enjoy it so it has become a "gathering spot" for junk. I tried to build a roof over the deck but that didnt work because of all the angles.

What I would recommend is to just extend the existing structure and have it all one house. Oh and airflow between the 2 houses is impossible even with fans and whatnot. So they would have to be treated as the 2 houses are not connected as far as HVAC.

[Wolf mom]

What you're planning sounds complex which adds to higher costs.
Why not look at park models mobile homes - or a small doublewide? They are meant to be placed once and not moved much. Set it up, & you're good to go.

Park models are really upgraded - tape & textured walls, etc., so please don't think of the "trailer" of old. You can get an upgraded insulation package and anything else you want.

If later, you want more space, you can add on. My neighbor down the street has a small doublewide that is wood sided & looks like a cabin. He just put an addition on one end as his new wife brought little ones with her.

[SteveD(TX)]

Originally Posted by fishhead

I've read that some homes in the south have what's called a 'dog leg' or something like that. It consists of joining two buildings like you are proposing with a roof. That creates air movement so there is usually a slight breeze in the opening between the buildings.

That would be a "dog run". Common in certain styles homes built in the south way back when. I've seen them in old two story homes where the second story covers the run.

[calliemoonbeam]

Blooba, those are exactly the kinds of issues I was talking about with the breezeway add-on, thanks for enumerating them from a personal perspective!

Wolf Mom, the park homes might be a great idea for some people. They do have some really nice ones nowadays. I've checked them out a lot, but anything I'd consider starts at $40,000+, and then I still found none that have even close to the layout or features I want. For a custom build, they start at $60,000.

That's almost twice what I paid for the five acres and singlewide mobile with large add-on that I currently have, so definitely not the route for me, lol.

I do like the fact that they're basically classified the same as an RV, so no permits or codes.

Starting out with a tiny house on its own, I can get it built quicker and for a lot less money and then add on later as I can afford it. That's the plus side to that, although there are pluses and minuses of both ideas.

Thanks for bringing it up! I didn't even think to mention them, in case Karen hasn't heard of them.

[wharton]

First thing that comes to mind is that there are cheaper, easier, and better ways to get this job done. Two sheds, joined by a mud room is not the most cost effective way to get X amount of footage under roof. I would investigate having a small two car sized pole barn (20'x20' with 8' high ceiling, metal roof, walls with sheathing, house wrap and siding) built by a contractor. These buildings offer everything a shed would offer with no need for additional foundation work. I would rough in the plumbing for a kitchen and bath, under the slab, then finish out the interior yourself. Keep the plumbing as simple as possible, bathroom and kitchen back to back. Use a plain old electric water heater, electric baseboard heat, and a 10K window AC for cooling. Unless you have a lot of local government interference and cost, you should be able to end up with 400 sq/ft. of modestly finished space for less than $20K. Good luck, and remember, cheap is your friend here, there is no budget for $5K heat pumps, on-demand water heater and other frills.

[Molly Mckee]

$5000.00 heat pumps that cost $300.00 ( there are tax credits, local utility rebates, manufacturers rebates, and some state rebates) And cost less than $20.00/ month to heat or cool a much bigger house than we are talking about is a very good deal.

[TNHermit]

Buy two sheds and a smaller one Open the ends and use it for the hallway. Just connect all three together like a shotgun house

[TNHermit]

The layout includes a 5 foot full bathroom, 5 foot kitchen, 14 foot living room, and an 8′ wide x 7′ long sleeping loft above the living room.

http://tinyhouseswoon.com/tiny-green-house/

[wharton]

Originally Posted by Molly Mckee

$5000.00 heat pumps that cost $300.00 ( there are tax credits, local utility rebates, manufacturers rebates, and some state rebates) And cost less than $20.00/ month to heat or cool a much bigger house than we are talking about is a very good deal.

Sure is. But, and there always is a but, I would be highly skeptical of being able to get various government and utility agencies to pay for anything close to 95% of the cost of an individual's heating system in the rural south. Washington State, Mass, CA, maybe...... rural Va. not so much.

[used2bcool13]

I was looking at this website http://socalcottages.com/,

I really think you would be better off heating and cooling etc if you made one long shed, forget the two separate sheds with a breezeway, then you wouldn't have to get 2 of anything - heaters a/c, etc..

You can always hang a curtain if privacy is a concern. Then you could have a front and back door. Look at how they lay out the simple kitchen and bathroom in some of the sheds.

Do you have any one who is handy around you? What you want is so simple that almost anyone could build this, not necessarily senior citizens but younger people. Don't take that the wrong way, I have walked off ladders in my 20's.

I would insulate as best as you can, as it keeps the cool or heat in. a small area heats up quickly and can be cooled pretty quickly too. I would bet a small run of simple electric baseboard or a small woodstove would be plenty and I think you were on the money about a portable a/c. This way you only cool the room you are in, or a small window unit.
Do any of the HT'ers here live near you? This could be a weekend build. I am in California or else I would volunteer my husband, lol. He built a 10x12 shed with a gambrel style roof and added a loft for storage in a week. I think we need to help each other more. Please let us know how this develops.

[Patchouli]

Originally Posted by fishhead

I've read that some homes in the south have what's called a 'dog leg' or something like that. It consists of joining two buildings like you are proposing with a roof. That creates air movement so there is usually a slight breeze in the opening between the buildings.

Dog Trot. That is what her idea sounds like.