Buying First Homestead

toasterburn · #1 10/01/13, 06:39 PM

My wife and I are trying to buy a homestead for ourselves. We'll both still be working in the city, so we wont be trying to earn an income farming and we wont be living off the grid. We just really enjoy homegrown food and want to be as self-sufficient as we can be. Besides, I'm not happy unless I can get dirty working on a project of some sort, so I think hobby farming should keep me busy,

We've been looking for a place for a while. Construction prices here are high, so buying land and building a home on it is out of the question. We decided instead to find a piece of property just outside the city limits (city ordinances here are very restrictive) with a few acres and a house we could fix up ourselves.

We think we might have found a place. It has 3 acres of flat pasture with lots of sun. Already has a very nice well, so watering the garden will be cheap. We want to grow a lot of vegetables and have a grove of fruit trees. We also want to raise chickens and dairy goats. I'm looking into aquaponics and beekeeping, so those may be options in the future too.

So is there anything else I should be considering? Before we buy this property, I want to make sure I've thought of everything. I've already called the city and checked on the ordinances for this property (it's just outside of the city's jurisdiction). I'm planing on using raised beds, so I'm not worried about the soil so much. Anything I'm forgetting? And any other areas of self-sufficiency I should be investigating?

Chucknbob · #2 10/01/13, 07:36 PM

Make sure you can keep livestock on site. If neighbors have horses it's a good sign.

toasterburn · #3 10/01/13, 07:41 PM

No horses around, but according to the city chickens and goats are fine.

Chixarecute · #4 10/01/13, 07:46 PM

Well water test for E Coli and other contaminants. Home inspection. Police incident report (abandoned meth house?) Price of fencing for the goats, varmint proof chicken coop and run. Soil test - orchard won't be in raised beds. Roosters OK or just hens?

Hope it works out for you. Have fun!

jwal10 · #5 10/01/13, 08:26 PM

Yes you want good earth for your trees and berries. Not swampy or standing water. Not a deal killer but it is good. Dig in several places, is it rocky? Do you like the setup for what you plan to do? Is it a good deal as to other properties around, if you need to sell or move up to a bigger property....James

homstdr74 · #6 10/02/13, 06:17 AM

If you're locating that close to the city limits, consider how long it might be until you are "annexed" into the city and whether or not what you want to do will be "grandfathered" in or not. Also if the city expands in your direction you will have neighbors that might not like what you're doing and take you to the City Council or worse, to court. If they annex you your taxes will go up.

So, in light of that thought, why is the owner selling this land? Is there some sort of insider info he has? I know that this might not even be worth considering for you, but I would.

That's why we located far enough away that we will never be annexed in our lifetimes. We're ten miles from the city limit.

toasterburn · #7 10/02/13, 08:10 AM

According to the person we talked to at city hall, it is "very unlikely" they would ever annex it, but she "couldn't swear a blood oath" that it wouldn't ever happen. There are already neighbors, but I'd own a treeline that mostly hides the house, and the neighbors aren't very close.

The big selling points are:

The house has 4 bedroom, 4 full bath, so plenty of space for starting a family. It's priced about $35,000 lower then most other houses of similar size around here. It's only ever had one owner, she passed away and left it to her son who is the seller. It was made in the 60's and has never been updated, which is why the price is lower. We'd have a lot of cosmetic work to do, but we can work on it ourselves.

It's hard to find any place around here with acres, almost everything is < 1 acre. This house has three, and it's all flat and mostly cleared. Not swampy; it's the high ground. Sandy soil. Lots of decorative plants around, so it seems fertile. There's an old log cabin falling apart in the back of the property and an old shed, both look like 1800's. I doubt much of it is savable, but it is interesting that someone was homesteading here years ago.

And it has a well, which is also hard to find here. And it's a really nice well, large pump, with it's own insulated cement building.

Cons are that there are a lot of cosmetic updates to be done, needs a new roof, and the bank is making us jump through hoops (like having to put it on city water before the loan goes through). Also the fear of getting annexed one day, but we want to be close to work and this house is.

geo in mi · #8 10/02/13, 08:21 AM

I would really check out the "putting it on city water". Sometimes, the city will require you to get sewers too, and make you pull the septic tank. They could also require you to cap the well--just something to check out. Doesn't seem to be far enough from the city to be immune from its influence.

On sand, and with only three acres and Alabama summer heat, you will have to really watch how many animals it will carry. You may have to buy many of your inputs, feed and fertilizers, so that will have to be in your budget.

Welcome to the forum.

geo

toasterburn · #9 10/02/13, 08:28 AM

We don't want many animals, just enough to provide us with want we need. So maybe three or four goats and a handful of chickens. Mostly I want land for gardening. I'll compost the animal poop, un-edible produce, and table scraps. That should provide with some fertilizer. I'll have to buy feed though.

GunMonkeyIntl · #10 10/02/13, 08:29 AM

No one here wants to be a bubble buster, and it is impossible for anyone to say exactly what is right for you and your wife, but there is some feedback above that you should not overlook - namely its proximity to city limits. Even in this economy, it can be surprising how quickly land is developed and towns expand. I'm sure that a 3 acre plot outside city limits looks a world better than your urban digs. The fact that it is so attractive should at least confirm your desire to get out of the cage, but be sure to keep the long goal in sight as well.

It may not mean anything, but I noticed that your thread title called this your "first" homestead. As I mentioned above, no one else can tell you exactly what is right for you, but I'm of the opinion that in all but some unique cases, you will be much happier hunting for your homestead - being both the first and the last at the same time.

I'm not an expert or an old hand at this, but I do firmly believe that a big part of any homestead effort is finding the right piece of land, working it, and making it into what you want it to be. More so even than an invesment in money, it is an investment in time, sweat, imagination, and even soul. Calling it a long-term project is an understatement.

To that end, if you go into it with eyes open and looking at the end-state, you likely will want more than 3 acres, and will want to mitigate the risk of it becoming just another "big" yard surrounded by McMansions on 1/2 acre lots.

Of course, your wants and needs may be radically different than mine, so I cannot gurantee you that the considerations above even apply to you, but I would advise you to at least consider them in your deliberations at least until you can rule them out.

toasterburn · #11 10/02/13, 09:36 AM

More land would be preferable, and it would be great to live way out in the country and far from city life. But my wife and I both have good jobs in the city, and we don't want to spend a fortune in gas on a long commute, and neither of us like driving very much. To get more land, we'd have to get 30-60 mins out of town. This house is 8 mins. It's a compromise. I realize we wont be entirely self sufficient, but I think I could grow most of our produce and keep plenty of eggs on the table, and food dependence is the main reason were doing this. That and a quieter setting.

I took some screen shots of the property with a rough estimate of property line drawn in to give everyone an idea. The house is 2400 sq feet as a reference.

Buying First Homestead - Homesteading Questions

Buying First Homestead - Homesteading Questions

homstdr74 · #12 10/02/13, 09:54 AM

From the pictures you've provided, I'd not want to be in such close proximity to neighbors who may or may not complain about what you're doing (animal smells, composting smells, and if you shoot something that's a problem varmint, are they going to call the Sheriff on you because there's shooting going on?)

Only you can make your own choices, but you already knew that. I will say this: years ago we purchased a couple of fixer-uppers that we thought would be the solution. Nope. Only thing that did was to make me mad at everyone else's carpentry, so we finally purchased 40 acres of "unimproved" land, but it had a well and electricity to it; we proceeded to build our own home, and now, years later, there are ten buildings on the property, three of them homes (our main house has over 2 thousand sq. feet in it). I was finally satisfied with the expertise of the builder and, if there was a problem with that, I could look into the mirror and tell myself off.

simi-steading · #13 10/02/13, 10:10 AM

Listen real close to what others are saying about living close to the city or town...

I used to own three acres outside of town.. it was a little ways away... I got lucky and sold the place before things started to happen, but it was only a couple years later all the zoning for the property got chanced and it went from rural to residential..

First a wider road got put in and a lot more traffic came with it... then city water showed up.. then more houses started being put up.. then all the farmers around the property sold to developers.. then more houses started coming in, and a road went right along side the property to a subdivision behind the property...

Then they had to get on city water and take out the septic I put in because of the homes behind the property...

I used to hunt on the property.. I could shoot out there all I wanted without fear of hitting someone... It only took about 6 years after I sold the place for the new owners to get screwed out of a country place... and it was several miles outside of town.. .not any more.. ..

Also, three acres isn't a whole lot when you start talking about orchards and goats and chickens.. they all start taking up land pretty quickly.. just depending on how big you want to go.. .

sidepasser · #14 10/02/13, 10:19 AM

How is the property zoned? Can you get a statement in writing from the city/county that states you can have animals/chickens/goats?

Can you do some research to see which direction the city has expanded and annexed in the past? Look into possible building permits for large companies, right of ways, etc. that would need to pass by the county to allow a large company or such to come in?

Sometimes that is the only way to find out that some co. is going to be building in the area.

Like the trees, does the neighbor on the right have any animals? (do they like animals?..some can really cause you grief even if you have the proper zonining).

Callieslamb · #15 10/02/13, 10:24 AM

You don't say how large of a town this is located near. If it's not that big, I'd not worry about being annexed too soon. If all you want is a garden and the ability to raise a few animals, I think it looks great. We had a property that was on 'county' water. We wanted out own well and there were no restrictions on putting one in, so we did. The only stipulation was that you couldn't be hooked to the well at the same time as the county water. They didn't want well water mixing in their supply. That was easy to plumb. When we sold, the new owners wanted city water, and it was easy to switch back to that for them. Meanwhile, we got to see if the well water was tasty or not. It was. Here in MI..the well water is nasty. I wish we had the option of city water. The well could water the garden and crops easily enough.

We also need to keep DH's job and really have no true desire to be off grid. We're 1/2 mile from the nearest town of 650 people and highly unlikely that we'll be annexed. LOL!! Before you plant that garden, do a good soil test. Southern soils can be highly acidic and that isn't a good start on a garden. You don't have to fill raised beds with soil that's been trucked in. Sometimes the soil in place is better than what you can buy. There's many ways to improve what's there.

toasterburn · #16 10/02/13, 10:44 AM

Town has a population of 24,000; it's the suburb of a city with a population of 93,000.

Just talked to another guy at city hall to be on the safe side. He said that even if neighbors complained the city has no jurisdiction to make us remove livestock. He also said we would have to ask to be annexed or it shouldn't happen.

simi-steading · #17 10/02/13, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toasterburn

He also said we would have to ask to be annexed or it shouldn't happen.

That's what the owners that had bought our place were told.... They wouldn't be annexed..... it didn't work out like that... Workers at city hall don't usually sit on the board and make the decisions..

anniew · #18 10/02/13, 10:54 AM

For gardening and animals, the photo of the land looks like you have less than one acre cleared. Is that all you'll be needing, cause if you cut down the trees, you will see the neighbors and they will see you.

toasterburn · #19 10/02/13, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anniew

For gardening and animals, the photo of the land looks like you have less than one acre cleared. Is that all you'll be needing, cause if you cut down the trees, you will see the neighbors and they will see you.

I'm thinking fruit trees in the front, vegetables on the back cleared section, and the far back fenced off for goats.

GunMonkeyIntl · #20 10/02/13, 11:24 AM

Toaterburn, do not, and I mean DO NOT, let any of the advice (my own included) provided here steer you away from this property, or induce any buyer's remose should you buy it. You have to make the decision, and it has to be right for you.

But I think the fact that there is such a prevalent pattern to the advice being provided here, it does beg carful consideration. It looks like the houses surrounding the property (including the new construction 100 feet or so to the east) are firmly in upper-middle class territory, and typically attract buyers who have issues with chicken noise/smell, goat noise/smell, compost smell/visitors etc. Even if the city says it is OK, neighbors who don't appreciate what you are trying to do can make life miserable.

With a long-term view in place, is a 30 minute commute that big of a deal? My wife's became 45 minutes at our new place, and she hates the drive, but I have been sitting on the porch, more than once, when she parked in front of our garage at the back of our 45 acres in the middle of nowhere, and actually WATCHED the stress melt away from her face when she shut the car door and looked around.

That's the last I will offer on the generalities of your hunt for a property. No matter what you end up with, I sincerely hope you will find it to be exactly what you needed.