Planning your path to Self-Sufficiency, Long-term

[sleuth]

I am a project manager/engineer in my career, but one area I really struggle with is long-term planning on my family's path to self-sufficiency.

I have so many goals and homestead needs & wants to accomplish, some on a shorter time than others. I may a decent income as an engineer but as much as I'd like to just get it all done and be self-sufficient for the rest of our days, I'm realizing now just how much of a process this is.

Here are some of the things I want to accomplish.
1. Retirement savings.
2. College savings - I have a 13 year old, 6 year old, and 4 year old, and we have not started college funds for any of them.
3. A new roof on the house - current one is 19 years old but still in ok shape.
4. New utilities - water heater, heating and cooling (would like to go geothermal).
5. A kitchen remodel & new energy efficient appliances.
6. A bedroom addition.
7. Raise livestock for personal consumption - requires a fence on our 20 acres, not cheap, and I want a fence that will look nice and increase the property value.
8. Solar or Wind energy.
9. A third vehicle/gas sipper for my long commute (currently driving a Ram 1500 50 miles per day).
10. Pay off the mortgage early.
11. A general store & produce stand on the property for my wife to work from home.
12. A tractor and a lawn mower upgrade to reduce the 4+ hours per week I spend mowing.

And so, so, so many more... None of these items are chump change. And time is running short on those college savings goals.

So I guess my question is... how do you plan long-term? It's so overwhelming and I'm not sure how to prioritize where the money goes and what order. I guess each of these projects, I can plan individually if I had a given budget and schedule, but with so many projects to juggle and knowing that the finances of each impact the finances of the other, I seem to be paralyzed.

[jwal10]

Maybe, just Maybe you are chewing more than you can swallow. You may need to reevaluate your wants and prioritize your needs. What is the #1 need, wants will be after your needs....James

[soulsurvivor]

You'll find yourself in a lot better shape if you refer to your list and use "we" everywhere you use "I". And I'm not trying to be a smart alec for saying that but
it's self defeating to try and make a long term goal without the full support of your life partner.

[karenp]

re; college, community college and live at home at least the first 2 years if possible.
re; fence put up something functional and gradually switch to the pretty stuff

I have a similar list, good luck more gets added than gets taken off.

[ronbre]

i agree with above..there is also no reason the children can't start young a a job to put away money for college as well..and there are also life ins policies you can get that will pay at college age if the child is still alive..and that money can go for college, car, whatever..that is how I got my first car.

[Callieslamb]

I think you need to sit down and define what self- sufficient is to you and set goals of how far you want to be in relationship to time. So it would look like "in 2014, we will have a garden that will produce 70% of our food." "This fall, we will plant an orchard of 2 each of 5 different fruit trees." And keep moving down the years. When you look at a list without the timing next to it, it can be overwhelming.

The switch to energy efficient appliances can be made without a remodel. A remodel is a want, not a need or a step to self-sufficiency. It doesn't take 20 acres in SW Ohio to raise animals if you have average grass available. If you raise a beef steer or two, you might do it on 2-3 acres...so the fence just got cheaper. Be proactive on the roof- keep watch so it doesn't leak and make the replacement that much more expensive. Can you do the work yourself? If not, you have time to learn. Home repairs only take a savings account to remove the worry.

What do you produce that you need store to sell it from? Do you really produce enough of it to warrant a store?

As for college: scholarships, scholarships, scholarships. College doesn't have to cost what 'they' say it does. We've sent 5 kids off to college. One got married and dropped the idea of college, but the rest all finished - and never got a school loan. 1 has his PhD and 2 others are working on theirs. We paid for only their first year (lucky us, all but one had full tuition scholarships). It can be done. They can work while they are in school. They can get scholarships. Some scholarships can be renewed. They can work during the summer or take a semester off if needed. The military also has some great college incentives. By the time your kids are in college, there will be even more creative ways to get their degrees. Yes, save, but don't let it be a bigger mountain than it needs to be. Let those kids raise calves, chickens, berries, whatever and build their own college funds. Making them work for money NOW will teach them how to work for it later and they won't assume that college will be handed to them on a platter.

[John_Canada]

Some thoughts. When we began to study about college funds and so forth for our three girls, there was no way in the world we could afford anything but community college. So we gave them the choice. Community college or begin working early and put money away for university (just as my grandmother did for her kids, paid for first year and told them they are on their own, she put 4 kids thru that way). The oldest girl chose CC and not to work until after that (bad choice in my opinion, but hers none the less). The two twins are headed for the same direction because they refuse to save money for college or even work more than a babysitting job. So that is their choice. They are old enough to make it.

Number 2 thought. The thing that will seem to bring a bit of independence to do other things with your money is to pay off your mortgage as fast as humanly possible. I dont understand the use of self-sufficient expenses if they will ultimately cost more than they save.

Number 3, do a search of "cost of owning a car". In almost every case, your truck may be cheaper in the long run that a gas sipping car. My Ram 1500 paid for itself MANY times over and we ended up getting rid of it for a gas sipping car that lasted a total of 2 months and we lost $1200 owning it.

You should do #11 but on the cheap. More income pays off the mortgage faster. Just dont waste the income on "solar" that can take 15 years to pay itself off when you can pay off your mortgage years early and save all that interest.

Btw, the one solar thing I would do is called a solar water heater. It is about $300 to $500 to do and will easily provide hot water for your family. It uses a cheap solar panel and no batteries needed to provide your HW needs.

Just my thoughts.

[Bret]

Removed by Bret. Reason--Cleaning out the barn.

[uncle Will in In.]

The self sufficent thing you have is a decent jobb. Don't put money in any project that isn't really needed at that time. If your truck runs good and is dependable, drive it. An electric fence made of one high tensil barbwire will work for cattle. Don't get more cattle than you need for your personal needs. The important thing to maintain is health insurance. A serious medical problem could take your farm in a short time.
Just keep working, and saving every penny you can.
Just don't get carried away dreaming of what you'd like.

[emdeengee]

Little drops of water, little grains of sand. It seems like you have a lot of projects and ambitions that all cost money but are not putting anything towards them.

You need a very detailed family budget. This should include house repair, maintenance and replacement. Even if you can only put 1% (3% for new and 5% for old houses is actually recommended) of the replacement value of your house and outbuildings aside every year you will accumulate a large amount of cash quite quickly. A $250,000 property at 1% would be $2500 per year. Roof and new appliances would fall into this category.

All the other things such as new kitchen, bedroom, fence, changing to new utilities, solar and wind conversion, livestock, general store, etc are capital investments. Either increase your mortgage to build now and then pay down your mortgage with every extra dime you can make or save up to do each project. Price out what they would cost and then start putting this aside.

A general store? Why invest so much at once? Why not just a small roadside stand to see if your wife even likes doing it and can make money doing it. If you make money doing it then you can save part of that to expand.

It is never the right time to start saving for education, retirement and to pay off debt (mortgage etc) so you might as well start right now. You are late to the party already but you can't buy back time so just figure out what you can put into each category every month and just keep plugging away. Increase it when you get more income. If you need to - get more income. For this I would buy the mower right away because if you can cut your lawn in one hour instead of 4 you can find work to fill the 3 hours saved.

Why do you need a third vehicle. Get rid of one. Just get an economy car and use the truck around the homestead.

[TnAndy]

Originally Posted by sleuth

Here are some of the things I want to accomplish.
1. Retirement savings.

Developing a self sufficient place is one of the best things you can do for retirement savings. We have no power, water, sewer bills, food costs are low (due to raising a lot of it) and property taxes are low due to Greenbelt.
Also, a healthy lifestyle will save you a lot in old age by avoiding medical costs.

But you will, of course, need some money. In addition to any traditional savings plan involving Federal Reserve Notes, ( or maybe avoiding it entirely), you should (IMHO) put away some silver coins on a regular basis. Do your own diligence, but IMHO, the green paper 'dollar' is not likely going to be around when you get to retirement age.

Originally Posted by sleuth

2. College savings - I have a 13 year old, 6 year old, and 4 year old, and we have not started college funds for any of them.

College is "ok"......if you have in mind a profession for which it is a requirement, AND if you have a reasonable shot at working IN that profession later. BUT there are a world of college 'educated' folks with useless degrees out there working at Starbucks.

IF I had children, I would sit them down and ask what their goals are....and if college was in that plan, that they need to start today working on scholarships and a work plan to pay for it.....and to AVOID like the plague becoming one of the members of the new slave class....those who borrowed to pay for school ( and apartments, gas money, pizza/beer, etc ). To simply hand out money to kids is to waste it. If they have to earn their way, they will appreciate the value of it. ( as is the case in most things ). Disclosure: Wife has a doctorate and I have a masters degree......non of which was paid for by either of our single mothers.

Originally Posted by sleuth

3. A new roof on the house - current one is 19 years old but still in ok shape.

Yeah....that one is hard to get around. If you have standard 3 tab shingles, you're close to the end of it's life ( I got 22 years out of my first roof ). So learn to roof.

Originally Posted by sleuth

4. New utilities - water heater, heating and cooling (would like to go geothermal).

Learn to plumb if you don't already. The water heater itself isn't that bad ( but you might want to go shopping NOW. Neighbor of mine runs QC at American Water Heater Co, and tells me they are ALL going way up in a year due to new federal energy standards ).

Heating.....a self sufficient person installs wood.....not geothermal. And if you absolutely MUST have AC, go with the mini-split systems....they are now up to SEER 26, you can install the unit itself ( and get a HVAC guy to come vac down the system and turn the gas loose.....I paid 100 bucks for that ), they are whisper quiet, and you can zone your cooling so you aren't cooling house you aren't currently using. They make a WHOLE lot more sense than expensive geothermal.

Originally Posted by sleuth

5. A kitchen remodel & new energy efficient appliances.

Learn to build cabinets. I did. We gutted our original (which I'd also built the cabinets for back in 80's ) to the studs few years back, and did this. That hood was 'free' with the purchase of 3 other appliances (GE), which also had rebates (we shop, believe me).

Originally Posted by sleuth

6. A bedroom addition.

Another one of those "build it yourself" projects.

Originally Posted by sleuth

7. Raise livestock for personal consumption - requires a fence on our 20 acres, not cheap, and I want a fence that will look nice and increase the property value.

Start with a few acres...add to it. 4 board wood fences look great, but 5 stands of barbe wire or wire field fence works. The critter you put in the freezer doesn't give a lick about pretty.

Originally Posted by sleuth

8. Solar or Wind energy.

Well, you've waited until solar panels are at about the lowest price they are going to get. I paid $4/watt in 2007.....the last ones I bought in June were little over a dollar/watt. Again, you need to learn to self install. The way to 'add value' to your place is to learn to cut out the labor costs.

Originally Posted by sleuth

9. A third vehicle/gas sipper for my long commute (currently driving a Ram 1500 50 miles per day).

I'd be parking or selling the Ram and buying this if I were commuting 50 miles/day.
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Cars-Tru...%2C6000&_rdc=1

Originally Posted by sleuth

10. Pay off the mortgage early.

Good goal. And the earlier you start, the more interest you save.

Originally Posted by sleuth

11. A general store & produce stand on the property for my wife to work from home.

Self employment income is great. Doesn't take much to throw up a little produce stand.....just make sure you have traffic on the road !

Originally Posted by sleuth

12. A tractor and a lawn mower upgrade to reduce the 4+ hours per week I spend mowing.

You have a 16yo kid and YOU spend 4 hours a week mowing. Really ?

Originally Posted by sleuth

So I guess my question is... how do you plan long-term?

You get out a pad and start writing. Try to put the priority stuff at the top, and go down from there. It will change along the way.....but without a written list, it's all just a dream. ALSO realize a lot of this is really long term. As I tell folks, I'm 30 years into a 50 year project.

Good luck.

[am1too]

Originally Posted by sleuth

I am a project manager/engineer in my career, but one area I really struggle with is long-term planning on my family's path to self-sufficiency.

I have so many goals and homestead needs & wants to accomplish, some on a shorter time than others. I may a decent income as an engineer but as much as I'd like to just get it all done and be self-sufficient for the rest of our days, I'm realizing now just how much of a process this is.

Here are some of the things I want to accomplish.
1. Retirement savings.
2. College savings - I have a 13 year old, 6 year old, and 4 year old, and we have not started college funds for any of them.
3. A new roof on the house - current one is 19 years old but still in ok shape.
4. New utilities - water heater, heating and cooling (would like to go geothermal).
5. A kitchen remodel & new energy efficient appliances.
6. A bedroom addition.
7. Raise livestock for personal consumption - requires a fence on our 20 acres, not cheap, and I want a fence that will look nice and increase the property value.
8. Solar or Wind energy.
9. A third vehicle/gas sipper for my long commute (currently driving a Ram 1500 50 miles per day).
10. Pay off the mortgage early.
11. A general store & produce stand on the property for my wife to work from home.
12. A tractor and a lawn mower upgrade to reduce the 4+ hours per week I spend mowing.

And so, so, so many more... None of these items are chump change. And time is running short on those college savings goals.

So I guess my question is... how do you plan long-term? It's so overwhelming and I'm not sure how to prioritize where the money goes and what order. I guess each of these projects, I can plan individually if I had a given budget and schedule, but with so many projects to juggle and knowing that the finances of each impact the finances of the other, I seem to be paralyzed.

New appliances are nice. But will the savings pay for the replacement cost? I don't think so. Plus I like clean clothes. The new machines don't do a good job. My mom says at least you got the clothes wet. I agree. They dry stiff which means they're full of dirt and soap.

You should pass on the addition. Yes it is nice. Nice isn't a requirement and won't add quality to the family.

Solar and wind energy won't pay for itself in 20 years. It is getting closer though.

And additional vehicle won't make things cheaper. A sipper will only mean less fuel. Add up the additional costs and compare to the savings in fuel.

You're mowing to impress people you don't know or live to close or even in the city limits. One of the reasons I don't live in the city limits. Yes a mowed field looks great. But it is worthless.

[am1too]

Originally Posted by karenp

re; college, community college and live at home at least the first 2 years if possible.
re; fence put up something functional and gradually switch to the pretty stuff

I have a similar list, good luck more gets added than gets taken off.

I've got a neighbor who complained about my compost piles. Guess what? He does come over any more. He also wondered why the insects ate his garden to the dust and didn't bother mine.

[K.B.]

Good tips from the responses. The best tip I can offer is patience and to take it slow... intentionally.

Take the time to really think out a project and realistically assess if/how it meets your needs.

My family is putting our homestead together for the long-term. Designing a place from scratch takes longer, but it is sure easier than trying to retrofit/fix something.

[am1too]

Back to work. Got plenty barn poop to spread today.

[edcopp]

So what business is the 13 year old in? If not in business, why not?

The business could be generally related to the work field that the 13 Y.O. might want to go into. Then college classes could be paid for by the employer (him/her) and not be a cost to you or he/she. The cost would be an ordinary and necessary business expense.

Same might be true for a car, if structured correctly.

Now at the age of 16-18 why not have the young person learn something about building a house, and then build one. This house could be small, or look more like an office than a house.

The challenge would to build the building from scrap, or found /salvaged materials, to have a small living quarters area for the now 13y.o. to live in mortgage free.

No college tuition (paid by the business), moving around in a company car, and living in a mortgage free house; might go a long way toward whatever his/her goal may be.

College to me looks to be a bit over rated. What with jobs decreasing in availability, and paying less, and less all the time.

Also I have serious doubts about funds that hold large amounts of my money. IRA, Education Funds, Medical Expense Funds and so on, seem to be just what the government is looking for. It would not surprise me to see a government mandate requiring that these dunds hold some government bonds of some sort, very soon.

[InHisName]

about long term-
we are in our 50's and the work is getting harder. (bucking hay, etc) I would be sure and do the building part with long term in mind- don't put in things that are lots of work to replace. Last year, hubby put in raised beds for some things, and it has been a big relief.

[mzgarden]

Lots of good input above. For us, we moved 1+ year ago. We have a 5 year plan written down with dates and estimated budgets. It does not have every single expenditure but it has the biggies. We look at it each month, check off things we've done, look to see if we came in under or over budget. If we're under budget, we might move something 'up' the list. If we're over budget, stuff gets put on hold.
Another benefit of having it written down, in order, with a cost estimate and reviewing it frequently - we can hunt bargains for the future projects. We knew when we saw heavy duty gutters come up at an auction that we would need them for the barn for our project identified for 6 months later. Saved bucks, put them aside for a while. Project complete on time and under budget.

[andrewat]

College to me looks to be a bit over rated. What with jobs decreasing in availability, and paying less, and less all the time.

This, or something like it, has been posted several times in this thread. Let me just assure everyone....college is not over rated. Please don't tell that to your children.

There are lots of people who have done well for themselves without college. But the numbers don't lie. The avg college grad is infinitely more successful, financially, than the avg non-grad.

Please don't tell your kids that college isn't important. If it's not for them, it's not for them. Somebody has to fix cars, build things, etc. But don't intentionally turn them away from a college education because you perceive it's expensive. They don't have to go to Harvard and most states have a very reasonable savings plan that will assist them in attending a reasonably priced state university.

[HOTW]

ONe gaol at a time..we have bought our farm(mum is lving there presently) we have to sell ou tour interests here and move up there(in stagesif need be-#1is getting me there-very hard to sell a biz I am finding) then first thing will be to create a garden area,til and plant asmall garden first year-all the while removing old hay/manure from th ebarn and start it composting properly. Plan a small orchard area that has room for expansion and plant 2 varieties of several trees. That should be our first year ground wise. Also buy a trio of rabbits to start breeding food, build a chicken coop.

There are loads of things we want but we know it wil probably be 5 years before we get all our basic plan in place, hopefull by th eend of five years we wil have established a good garden andorchard and be working on selling product by then.

Winters will be for redoing inside-we have a workshop attached to the house that needs to be insulated and finished but that will be our farm store