Barn Layout

[equinecpa]

In the next few weeks I'll be building a barn to house my sheep (approx 10 katahdin ewes max 120# each, the numbers double when they lamb, then back to 8-10 when I sell the lambs), ducks (approx 10 ancona), chickens (5 bantam cochin) and greenhouse-whatever room is left! The sheep will have access directly to their fields via a pen to be built on the west side of the barn. Animals go into the barn year round at night due to predators, outside all day. The area indicated for the chickens/ducks is their closed in at night area only-runs need to be added.

I'd like some criticism/suggestions on my layout. Please note this is a very rough draft so things like doors aren't positioned very accurately but it gives one an idea of what I'm thinking...



The sheep area will be able to be split up with removable partitions (hence two doors going out of it). The feed area will also incorporate a removable lambing jug (not shown in the illustration). In the winter the chickens/ducks will have access to the greenhouse area as the greenhouse will be unheated.

I'm having a problem with the raised garden location (it already exists). My current temporary set-up allows my ducks and chickens to range right up to the garden and they do a great job of bug control. I also have my compost in one corner where the chickens can get into it and they do an awesome job of turning my compost. I'd like the chickens/ducks to be able to continue to mind my garden but I also need access to the east side of the sheep barn to unload feed. If I connect my garden to the barn with pens that will make access difficult..

So I'm thinking I'll put some outside runs on the East side of the duck/chicken area perhaps wrapping around to the south, and the garden will also be on the south side of the greenhouse? (Ugghh I get to move all that dirt again, ). Garden will be smaller than the existing garden as I don't have a lot of width to work with the barn.

Hay will be stored in another existing shed and I'll just keep a couple of bales in the feed area-perhaps more will be stored in the greenhouse during the winter to add mass.

Thoughts? Opinions? Major problems?

[Otter]

A 10 x 10 square is not going to comfortably house 10 sheep. The square footage allowed will probably comfortably house the chickens and ducks - but how are you getting a wheelbarrow in there to clean?

What I would do is take out the greenhouse and make it a lean-to on the side. Leave the inside as open as possible.

What is always an excellent idea is to go out with some Tposts and tape and do a mock-up. Corners, walls and doorways. Then get in there with a wheelbarrow, rake and a bale of hay and see how workable it is.

[Sawmill Jim]

You can take lime and draw it out on the ground to try out how things fit or look too .

[equinecpa]

Originally Posted by Otter

A 10 x 10 square is not going to comfortably house 10 sheep. The square footage allowed will probably comfortably house the chickens and ducks - but how are you getting a wheelbarrow in there to clean?

LOL-the duck and chicken pens will have full size doors (I didn't draw them in).

For the sheep as I have a developing flock I have been tending to change them out quite often-and usually have a couple full grown ewes and then mostly lambs yearlings-but I do have to plan for the future when I won't be changing out so often. I had read 10-12 sq ft for ewes so that's where the 10x10 came from. I'm thinking of adding 4 feet in length to the whole structure so their pen could easily become 10x14. And I got to thinking when they lamb there is no reason I can't use the greenhouse for space either. Do you 10x14 would be enough for a night time pen max 10 ewes (preferably I'll keep that at 8 but I know there will times when it'll creep to 10). And I've got to thinking-I probably should make the greenhouse side narrower by 2' and add that to the sheep side so basically the sheep rectangle will be 12x24, in which I"ll also need to incorporate feed storage, and then the greenhouse/fowl side will be 8x24. I think that'll probably work better...keep the thoughts coming..

What is always an excellent idea is to go out with some Tposts and tape and do a mock-up. Corners, walls and doorways. Then get in there with a wheelbarrow, rake and a bale of hay and see how workable it is.

I do like this idea. I think I'll get some spray paint and spray paint the outline ...

[rambler]

I guess it meets the minimum square feet needed for the sheep

http://www.sheep101.info/201/housing.html

But sure seems crowded to me.

No room at all for expansion. Easy to spend others money, but would think an extra 4 feet wouldn't cost much and allow a tad more room for everything. Remember, walls take space, and square footage away, with 5 walls or fences across the bottom 20 feet, you are down to 17 or so feet of useable space, those rooms get narrow...... Need 2 feet width to walk through them, and only 3 feet of useable room......

The feed room is kinda buried in the corner, several rooms to go through to get to some of the critters.

Paul

[geo in mi]

Seems like a lot of doors to go in and out....why not a center aisle for feed and water and cleaning and supplies and animal care?

geo

[equinecpa]

Originally Posted by geo in mi

Seems like a lot of doors to go in and out....why not a center aisle for feed and water and cleaning and supplies and animal care?

geo

Chicken and duck doors going out are just for the chickens and ducks (will be a sliding door I can raise with a rope/pulley mechanism. I like animals being able to go directly in/out as then they can have access to inside all the time. With a center aisle I'd need to lock critters out or they'd all be together.

[FarmboyBill]

Well, youll always be walking in crapola no matter how you try to get to the barn. In the pouring down rain, Your gonna have tro walk around the outside of the barns paremeter to gert the chores done. The ground will be MUDDY. in the winter, youll be letting in the cold from several different doors,
#1. Its always better to have your feed area, AND hay mow, which I didn't see you had allowed for, on one side of the barn. And that side facing an open barn lot for easy moving of pks, tractor and carts/wagons. IF It could be on the N side, then that would provide somewhat of a wind breaker to the animals on the other side of the hay/straw.
#2 Is your feed going to be in bags or in bulk? IF in bulk, I can tell you how to build a grain bin that will hold over a ton. They give me a bonus here IF I buy a ton or more in bulk.

AHHHH I see where you said hay/straw will be kept in another barn. In that case, I guess youll know what you know when you get it taped out. I did that several times here to get a look see as to the layout of a barn I wanted to build, And never did.

[J.T.M.]

A 10' x 10 ' is going to be tight for 10 ewes , even at a small size of 120# each. Perhaps they will have come and go access and near perfect ventilation ? Even 20' x 20 ' is fudging it ..... I don't know where you are , but in the cold state of Iowa we would put the doors on the South or East side to escape the bitter cold North /Northwest winter winds.

[rambler]

What exactly is the greenhouse part, there are times plants and animals are needing a different set of heat, humidity, and sunlight.....

Will this building allow the multiple condions set up? You are wiling to put the various critters in the greenhouse area from time to time, will the different critters be needing the space at times the greenhouse is empty for sure, and then will you be able to clean up the raw manure to keep the plants (eatable I presume?) free of bad germs?

Shared spaces like that take a lot of consideration to work out for multi use.

I see now the entire NW corner might be the feed room, you have bins, not walls drawn in, makes that a bit better sized to me then, was wondering about the 3 tiny rooms....

I am not familiar with a greenhouse so my thoughts might be stu-pid, but I guess you will need a lot of plastic clear cover over that section, roof and sidewall? Again, keeping the critters from wrecking that coating will take a little work.

Your roof line is not even over the poultry area, will that portion be regular roofing, or will you roast the poultry under a hot sun and clear roofing at times?

Just stuff to sort out in the planning stages, I might seem negative but just posing questions to think about is all.

Knowing your general location might help too as far as how robust a building you need, I presume you are a bit more moderate than my wintertime climate would be!

Paul

[o&itw]

It is really hard to answer questions accurately when we don't know what part of the country you live in. Posting your locations such as SE Iowa, or West of the Cascades, will get you much better answers to most of your questions without compromising your privacy.

You not only need space to keep your sheep, but to feed and work your sheep. In most areas one can get a blizzard, sandstorm, 4 days of rain, or other natural occurence which will require keeping those animals inside for several days. It may come at a time when you have a bunch of lambs. Do you really think that a space the size of a small berdoom is large enough?

BTW, you proabaly want to have the side with your greenhouse facing south, and you might want to make it longer and more narrow. In the summer, the building will help to shade it which you will need. In the winter it will help to warm the animal quarters.

[littlebitfarm]

I would have the whole side for sheep. Let the ducks and chickens in with the sheep. The chickens will go up for a roost. Mount nest boxes on the wall for them on a wall, no floor space needed. Put a pen, on a diagonal, in the corner for the ducks. All poop and mess in one area. Think about a French drain system under the ducks, they will make a constant mess with their water.

Move the feed and stuff to where you had the chickens and ducks. Remember livestock does best with fresh air, not damp moist air, they need air movement at night and in the winter too. Don't just seal the barn up tight.

[Maura]

I woudn't have separate houses for the ducks and chickens. I've had them together. The chickens stay on perches, the ducks on the ground. You just don't want the perches directly over the ducks. If you don't have small predators that will take out the eggs and birds, then as Littlebitfarm wrote, just incorporate them in with the sheep. They'll all get along.

[Awnry Abe]

Could you swap the chicken area with the open entrance area, which would create a single alley from front to back of the barn? I imagine you are trying to utilize a single run for the poultry, which is a good idea. I think you have lost some valuable real estate with the jog in the middle of the barn into the greenhouse. (Although I'm not a big fan of ducks under the same roof with anything but ducks. They are swamp-makin critters that create an indoor environment that is generally not good for anything else. )

[equinecpa]

A 10' x 10 ' is going to be tight for 10 ewes , even at a small size of 120# each. Perhaps they will have come and go access and near perfect ventilation ? Even 20' x 20 ' is fudging it ..... I don't know where you are , but in the cold state of Iowa we would put the doors on the South or East side to escape the bitter cold North /Northwest winter winds.

I'm in Colorado, SW of Denver. I want to be able to separate all of the animals as their needs and care can be so different. The chickens and ducks may go together but sometimes some don't get along with others and I want the ability to separate them. I would have doors on the south side if the layout of everything else would allow for it but our house is on the East side of this proposed structure and the sheep paddocks on the north and West side. The greenhouse walls will probably be slightly angled where a door isn't feasible on the South side. South is the right side of my drawing (I wrote south in the top right but I was trying to label the arrow which does point South!)

I guess I should have mentioned something-I'm basically taking down two existing structures (a greenhouse and a run-in shed) and combining them almost like two separate buildings side by side. It may not be apparent from my bad drawing but I plan a wall down the middle separating the sides).

I chicken sat for someone this winter and they had a greenhouse like room for their chickens and I really liked it. It was nice and warm so the water didn't freeze and just nice and bright. Since I need a greenhouse to grow anything in our short summer, why not put it to work in the winter by at least letting the animals have a nice yard? I'm also going to attempt to grow fodder, so having it right there seems logical to me.

[KMA1]

I suggest you look at a dozen or so working barns and see how they are set up for efficient workflow, keeping the caregiver dry and out of the mud, and making cleaning and care generally easier and more efficient. I think you will find a central hall layout and stalls on each side are almost universal in working barns. Plan to give generous space to your larger livestock or regret your decision as long as the structure is used. Move the greenhouse out and make it a leanto or standalone structure will increase its utility as well as your barn. You can still have exterior doors out of your stalls if you gotta. But it is more expensive that way. Consider using stall walls with gates that close off hallway for managing animals. Also consider making partitions between stalls gates that swing back to the exterior wall. That way stalls are easy to reconfigure for size and animal management on the fly. This also makes cleanout a few minute job with a tractor as opposed to a few days with a shovel and wheelbarrow. And you really need a location for hay and feed storage adequate for your animal load in winter.

Or march on to a different drum until reality hits down the road. Good luck either way.

[Wolf mom]

Interesting layout. I like the fact that you are trying to think outside the box.

Greenhouses need to be facing due south - especially with short seasons. Is yours? I like the idea of a lean to on the side of the barn - then it can collect wither sun & keep the barn warm if needed. You can put water filled barrels against the back wall as a heat collector.

Do you really want to keep hay/straw in another barn? Seems like a lot of work hauling heavy bales to me. Not to say the expense of building another building unless it's already built.

Ya know, I bet there's been a lot of people trying to improve on the center isle barn, but that design has withstood the test of ages. Just something to think about.

[equinecpa]

Originally Posted by Wolf mom

Interesting layout. I like the fact that you are trying to think outside the box.

Greenhouses need to be facing due south - especially with short seasons. Is yours? I like the idea of a lean to on the side of the barn - then it can collect wither sun & keep the barn warm if needed. You can put water filled barrels against the back wall as a heat collector.

The greenhouse is facing S (arrow in top right corner). I hate seeing our existing greenhouse sitting empty in the winter when I'm sure something would be happy to play in it. And I love the heat it does collect.

[/quote]Do you really want to keep hay/straw in another barn? Seems like a lot of work hauling heavy bales to me. Not to say the expense of building another building unless it's already built. [/quote]

The hay shed already exists. I also restricted by code on how many buildings I can put up another reason why I'm combining everything.

Ya know, I bet there's been a lot of people trying to improve on the center isle barn, but that design has withstood the test of ages. Just something to think about.

I know. -and my husband thinks I"m nuts not to have an aisle but then again he's a horse guy. My biggest concern right now is letting the sheep out-I don't really want to have to go through their pens to let them out. Which would mean walking around the building....

[Rockwell Torrey]

Lots of good ideas here. Thanks to all.

[kscowboy]

Id go wider so you can have center aisle and have 10' on each side. build the solid wall needs only on inside i.e. ducks , chickens. Leave everything else open and section off with removable horse panels . Leave an end wide open with sliding door so you can get a bobcat in there occasionally to scoop out. Now you have a barn you can change around as needs change , which they will.