If you were to start farming crops which one?

[Northstar]

I am about to get to the point of making a seed bed for my 75 acres... But the question is, would you plant native prairie grass or wheat?
It's been a wheat farm all of my life, however hasn't been farmed in 15 yrs. So now it's organic land. I can't decide if I should continue the tradition of wheat or should I go with prairie grass so that I can sell the hay? If you get 2 harvests a year with hay that seems to be the best way to go.. But I know NOTHING about farming hay otherwise..

Does anyone here farm hay, if so what is the best type for drought conditions. and how would i do a no till prep? This land is in SW Kansas.

[o&itw]

It would be really great to know whether you live in Alberta or Alabama. Some of these questions are difficult to answer if we don't have at least a vague indication of your soil or weather.

Native prairie grasses such as big blue stem, etc. are notoriously expensive to get started especially in heavy stands. If there is enough rainfall you could plant red clover or alfalfa and then alternate it with wheat every couple of years. The question is too broad with so little information.

[Maura]

Contact your end buyer. If there is are any organic dairies near you, ask them If they would buy hay from you, and what they would want. This would give you a general idea of what to plant, and these farmers would probably know how to plant it and when to cut it. You may be able to develop a customer base before you even plant.

[wy_white_wolf]

Dryland or irrigated?

If it's dryland most likely you will only get 1 hay cutting a year. Irrigated you could be getting 2 or 3 cuttings.

Wheat would need planted and harvested every year. Hay only harvested after the initial planting.

Wheat you may also need to come up with another crop to plant in rotation or let the land lay fallow for a year between harvests.

Wheat will supply a bigger payday but also have higher costs and risks. Hail can completely destroy a wheat field before harvest.


WWW

[rambler]

Would really depend on who you are selling to, who is your buyer? Wat does wheat being you, how far to haul? What does hay bring you, small square, big squares, rounds, do you have covered storage?

Do you have any machinery, will you hire the work done coston farmed?

Would it be better to just rent the ground out for so many dollars per acre and not have the work and investment, both can be huge.

Do you have time to tend to the hay, when it is time to cut, rake, bale, stack, you need to do that, right then, not in a day or 2 when you get around to it......

Many things to consider, many of them are local considerations.

Paul

[FarmboyBill]

All good advice.

[ksfarmer]

In SW Kansas you are in drought area. Like Paul says, there are many things to consider. Do you have equipment? Are you currently farming other land or do you work off farm. If you don't have a line of farm equipment, I would seriously look at leasing the land to someone who does. If you go the grass hay route you could hire it planted but you still face the problem of getting it baled when the time comes. There is a lot of irrigation in that part of Kansas, is your land irrigated?

[Northstar]

thanks everyone!

O&itw, my post actually DID mention the location, please refer. Also the vagueness of my post is due to lack of experience, hence why i googled homesteading.

A bit more info: EXCEPTIONAL DROUGHT!!!!!!!!
not irrigated, no machinery, also the land has returned to it's orginal state< cheat grass and weeds.. so I need to some how get it prepped.. this is why I posted my questions here .. I knew all yall would anticipate these problems..

I would work on the farm myself, time isnt' an issue, but money certainly is.. I have pondered leasing it, but most tenants want a 5 yr. I think i would rather farm it myself in that time. Go to an auction get a baler, perhaps a no till drill, I have a tractor. Other than that no implements.

Here wheat is at 7$ a bushel. And the grain elevator is 3-4 mile away so about an 6 mile RT. I would have to hire custom cutters for wheat. WE do get hail every now and then and a few tornadoes.

For hay , again no irrigation, so that probably means only 1 harvest a year. the first year probably wouldn't get nill.

I have the time to bale, and stack, depends on the yield. I wonder if i would get maybe 50 small sq bales /acre in dry cropland? But you don't need to replant hay every year like wheat do you? So thats a bonus. I can live on the homestead while working it.
I think hay brings about 8-10$ a small sqr here in these parts... We have a HUUGE feedlot that may or may not buy it.. other than that, i would post a sign on the road... lol. HAY FOR SALE! Also no covered storage....
Wheat would be sold to the nearest elevator, this makes me wonder if its still the same protocol after 25 years.. like we did when I was a kid harvesting wheat..

These are all things to ponder, but this is a great place to get your guys experience on these issues and being able to anticipate these problems is a bonus.. I really appreciate all of your time and experience .. I am glad this place exists to ask stupid and vague questions...

Thank to all for your patience.

[ksfarmer]

I might make one suggestion, go to your local Kansas State Extension office and talk to the folks there. If the local agent is worth his salt he will be willing to give you lots of information and advice.
It is difficult for anyone not actually in your location to give much pertinent advice. My guess is that you are looking at 2 to 3 years to get a native grass established to where it would have much value as hay. 1st thing is to get rid of the cheat and weeds , maybe by using a burn-down application of round-up in combination with banvel or 2-4-D. Then you could use a no-till drill to seed the grass. Some county extension offices have no-till grass drills that they lease out. Then , next year, if you get rain to make the grass come up, you will be faced with trying to keep the cheat and weeds from overwhelming and choking out the grass. More spraying and mowing.
I guess it depends on how much time and money you have to get the grass established. Leasing the ground to a neighbor to plant wheat is definitely the cheap and easier route. You might talk around to some locals, someone might be willing to accept a shorter than 5 year lease, maybe an arrangement could be made for him to raise wheat for 2 or 3 years and then plant grass for you. After a few years of raising wheat, you will have a lot less trouble with the cheat and weeds.
Just some more things for you to think about.

[ramiller5675]

Why has it been 15 years since wheat has been grown? Usually there's a reason why a field is abandoned (erosion, fertility, access, uncontrollable weed problem, etc.)

After 15 years, I would expect some sort of native grasses to have started coming into a wheat field. If you want a native grass stand, I would try to control the weeds, starting with the broadleaves (with something like 2-4D, dicamba, or a mix of the two). Then I'd worry about controlling the cheat, although either baling hay or mowing might start to control it.

If you want to grow wheat, either no-till it after a burndown of the appropriate herbicides, or use tillage to build your seedbed. Or, try "pasture cropping" by using a no-till drill to plant into your existing native grass stand (can be risky if you want to get a grain harvest, but it might work).

[doomas]

the first thing I would look at is the weeds. what are they and how to get rid of them..I never was to much on spraying,so I would bale them up and burn so the seed pod did not get back in the soil..then I might look into planting a cron crop to plow down the weed bed and ''hire'' some one to spray one time to kill the weeds that made it over winter. This way the cash crop you are trying to grow does not have weed to fight out.
If weeds are not the big issue,no till drill is a tried and true way to get a stand of grass started. After your stand takes ahold,every year you could soil test and top spread the fertilizer as well as some grass seed to the thin spots.
Are you keeping any animals ? we were always in need of lime so a pile was at hand and every time we hauled a load of barn manure a scoop of lime was droped on top of the load. Was not a lot but we did not have a lime spreader and could not afford to have it spread when we could buy it and haul our selves.

[Northstar]

Originally Posted by ramiller5675

Why has it been 15 years since wheat has been grown? Usually there's a reason why a field is abandoned (erosion, fertility, access, uncontrollable weed problem, etc.)

After 15 years, I would expect some sort of native grasses to have started coming into a wheat field. If you want a native grass stand, I would try to control the weeds, starting with the broadleaves (with something like 2-4D, dicamba, or a mix of the two). Then I'd worry about controlling the cheat, although either baling hay or mowing might start to control it.

If you want to grow wheat, either no-till it after a burndown of the appropriate herbicides, or use tillage to build your seedbed. Or, try "pasture cropping" by using a no-till drill to plant into your existing native grass stand (can be risky if you want to get a grain harvest, but it might work).

I'm really trying to hard to keep it organic... but i realize I may have to use some herbicide to kill the weeds.. I also do not want to plow or till as this causes erosion amongst other things.. I will have to do a burn and mow I suppose..

The reason it hasnt been farmed in 15 years is because of politics with relatives.. I have owned it partially all of my life with my Grandmother and was never in control of it,,but recently got it deeded to me so now I have unfettered access.. Is there a way to keep organic and use pesticides?

[rambler]

How many weeds and trees on it now? Might just need some attention to spruce up the grasses growing now, not a total start over.

If it is weed infested, going organic is a challenge. You can do it, but you lose a lot of hay getting there from here.

Organic, you will need special certified fertilizers, they cost more. A 15 year abandoned field will need some fertilizer added to make whatever crop you grow do well. That is just how it is.

Typically large feedlots prefer big bales these days, large square or round bales. They often are wary of organic operations, as the hay tends to be lower in nutrients. (Yes that comment will raise the ire of folk here, but it is what it is - organic hay can be raised very well. But the typical operation tends to skimp on feeding the grasses....)

With small squares you are looking to sell to horse owners and small operations.

The only way to get $8 a bale from them is to be very timely on your baling - at the best possible time for nutritious hay, and then store it covered and vermin free until hay gets short in winter and you can get top dollar.

With you starting out, I suspect you will need at least 2 years to establish a good hay, and likely take you another 2 years to learn the proper timing and handling of the hay to make those top notch bales. Then you have no storage, so you will be selling out of the field. When everyone else is and no one needs the hay right then.

So, you will have 2-5 years of an average to poor product, selling it at the worst time of the year to get lowest pices.

You can figure closer to $2 a bale, rather than $10 a bale, until you learn the ropes and get your education.

Organic means you will have weed issues early on, and fertility issues, and more expensive fertilizer purchases. All this puts less money in your pocket.

Some people will pay extra for good organic labeled hay, but not everyone will and those who do will expect a top quality product, you need time to develop those markets and buyers.....

As well, hay is worthless when everyone including you can grow a lot, and brings in readable high prices when no one, including you, are able to grow any. This is where a storage barn to hold hay high and dry pays for itself, you don't have one.....

All this to say, it looks easy on paper, you will find it is is a lot more difficult to get to there than you imagine. A lot harder.

Many of us start with a 2 acre corner of hay, work up to 20 acres. Learn as we go. It is really really easy to mess up hay, make mistakes, weather kicks your behind. 70 acres is a big investment, a lot of ground to cover, you need dependable equipment on that size operation, you need to manage time very well. That is a big operation to dive into.

I'm not trying to discourage you, just welcome to some reality. stuff to think on.

You have set up some situations with your requirements (or hopes) to make this a little more difficult (expensive) than it would have to be. That makes it all the more to ponder on and get right.

Paul

[agmantoo]

I would think you are going into a farming enterprise to make money. Additionally I would think that you have some idea of how much risk and how much profit you anticipate in having. This risk/reward calculation would go a long ways in assisting in the decision making. If the effort is for hobby just determine how much you want to invest in the hobby and start.

[HLGRAY]

All good advice above. I have been there, done that when I was in my thirties. I am now 75 and a little wiser. It's all a huge gamble, your age, your health, how deep your pockets are, how much free help you can get (sons and daughters), how much time you have, on and on are all factors in addition to the climate, pests, weeds, condition of the soil. Talk to your local state conservation specialist, get soil samples, and see how far you are from being able to even begin to produce a successful crop and bring it to completion.
Get a million dollars and farm until you go broke and enjoy. Ha, Ha!

[ramiller5675]

If you want to keep it organic, don't want to use herbicides to control the weeds, and don't want to use tillage, you basically have the option of either baling whatever grass is there for hay or getting some cattle (or sheep, etc.).

After reading the rotational grazing thread, I've thought that it would be easier to take some cropland and design a rotational grazing system around a nice relatively flat field than trying to take the typical pasture and setup a rotational grazing system.

If you laid out your lanes and waterlines correctly, you might be able to figure out how to grow organic wheat and/or cover crops while using your cattle to build your fertility and control your weeds.

[Yvonne's hubby]

Originally Posted by Northstar

I'm really trying to hard to keep it organic... but i realize I may have to use some herbicide to kill the weeds.. I also do not want to plow or till as this causes erosion amongst other things.. I will have to do a burn and mow I suppose..

The reason it hasnt been farmed in 15 years is because of politics with relatives.. I have owned it partially all of my life with my Grandmother and was never in control of it,,but recently got it deeded to me so now I have unfettered access.. Is there a way to keep organic and use pesticides?

Trying to keep it organic without tilling is going to be tricky at best. No herbicides or pesticides with organics. If it hasnt been farmed for 15 years, you are going to have some major issues with weeds, even with haying and cutting and hauling off the weeds before they get a chance to go to seed it will take years to get them under control.

[HLGRAY]

Goats! They will thrive on the weeds, brush and anything else growing on your land. They prefer to eat such things instead of grass though if that is what you have they will eat the grass.
Then if the land needs clearing of sprouts and roots turn hogs in there and they eat it up and plow the ground by rooting up everything.
You will need to build a very good fence hog tight and goat tight.