tile draining in clay

[primal1]

is it a bad idea to use piping with a sock?
Just curious because i have 6" of water in my backyard and the socked tile with a sock is not draining my land very fast despite there only being pebbles covering the pipe and both are under water.
I checked where the pipe drains to and it is flowing but not as quick as i would expect.

[rambler]

Put in 4 miles of tile last year on 40 acres, didnt use a sock. We have mostly yellow clay subsoil around here, and socks are not used at all. Thought they were mostly for fine sand soils, but guess it depends on the type of tile you used, we use the slit black plastic corrugated field tile.

Paul

[Cabin Fever]

Tile drainage systems are uusally designed to lower watertables, not surface water. If your problem is poned surface water, you may want to consider attaching a surface inlet to your subsurface tile.

Subsurface systems only drain about 1/4 to 1/2" of water per day, so it takes a while. In clay soils, drainlines typically dewater only about 25 feet on either side of the drainline.

If you have some info on your system, you may want to plug some numbers into this drainage system calculator ==> http://climate.sdstate.edu/water/dra...on.html#figure

[primal1]

Thanks Paul, i thought it was more for sand as well.. i cleared away the pebbles and cut the sock open for about 8 feet to see if that will help.. no noticeable in difference in flow but i'll give it a bit of time

[primal1]

@Cabin Fever
When i moved in here both neighbors told me they had water in the basement issues, we replaced the old drainage pipe which was no more than 2 feet below ground and ran about 300 feet up between the properties.
Being new here i let the old timer(a mechanic not a farmer) make the calls. He ordered 10" socked corrugated. We laid pebble, laid the pipe and covered with pebble. The land still drains terribly slow.
I am tempted to poke a hole and see if the pipe is full and maybe just backing up because of a clog

[rambler]

Sounds like you have it laying more or less on the surface? Tile works best if it is about 3 feet deep, it drains out the excess moisture from your ground. More water always seeps to the low spot, so even if your tile it taking away some water, more might be coming through the ground to that low spot as fast as the tile is taking it away.

If you are down deeper in the ground, it will dry out the low area, allowing room for extra water to move into the spot and have a place to go.

Paul

[Cabin Fever]

Did the stone that was laid around the pipe go all the way to the surface of the ground or was the stone buried?

In your situation, I would have dug the trench, lined the trench with geotextile fabric (all the way to the surface), enveloped the drainage pipe in rock, and then completely fill the trench with rock all the way to the surface.

Google: french drain

[primal1]

Yup, it it's deepest it's only about 2 feet deep and now it has been connected to the city storm drains there is not much i can do about depth.
I think i need to think about importing loads of soil to build up my backyard

[primal1]

The pipe is completely enveloped in pebble, that why i am thinking it's the sock.. but like Paul says maybe we're just not deep enough

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

Did the stone that was laid around the pipe go all the way to the surface of the ground or was the stone buried?

In your situation, I would have dug the trench, lined the trench with geotextile fabric (all the way to the surface), enveloped the drainage pipe in rock, and then completely fill the trench with rock all the way to the surface.

Google: french drain

[fishhead]

I just happened to pump some water and silt into a drain tile sock the other day. The holes were plenty large enough to allow fine sand to go through the holes.

I would guess that you have an elevation problem not a plugged sock.

[primal1]

I did plant a couple of willows in lower areas but they are still young lol

[Darren]

Because of the extremely fine particle size of clays, water does not flow well through a clay soil. The higher the clay percentage, the slower the water seepage. I've used french drains to intercept surface water and direct it to the perforated pipe within to prevent surface water from reaching a building.. In those cases the french drain components were wrapped in geotextile to prevent soil intrusion. Above that I used sand to back fill within a few inches of the surface. Once the surface flow reaches he drain, it's almost like it's sucked down.

I'm wondering if the clay has blocked the pebbles and/or sock so little to no water is getting to the pipe. That eventually blocks a french drain too if it's not wrapped in geotextile.

Check out the internet for a simple way of putting a soil sample in a jar of water and determining the soil composition. If you have a very high clay content, the tile installation was wasted money. Water flow in high clay soils can be measured in years.

[Phil V.]

Do you have a stand pipe connected to the pipe? In some cases that is what you need to help your drain tile. A neighbor had to put one at the lowest point of where water was standing to completely drain off the water that was standing. I worked for the state highway where I live and we had put stand pipes for some tiles in heavy soils.

[Cabin Fever]

Originally Posted by primal1

The pipe is completely enveloped in pebble, that why i am thinking it's the sock.. but like Paul says maybe we're just not deep enough

Yes, your pipe is enveloped in pebbles, but do the pebbles extend upward to the surface of the ground?

[primal1]

the city did install a stand pipe when they connected it to the storm drains however it is near the lowest point of the length piping... I may install another one further up the piping.

@darren, i did clear away pebbles and cut the sock while even making sure the slits in the pipe were clear all of which isn't making a huge difference as far as i can tell

[primal1]

Sorry, yes in most lower length the pebbles are to the surface, the higher spots have grown over with grass though

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

Yes, your pipe is enveloped in pebbles, but do the pebbles extend upward to the surface of the ground?

[Darren]

I'm not familiar with the pipe you used. Where are the slits? All the way around? On the top only? On the bottom only?

This is an example of the results found for different soils by putting a sample of soil in a jar of water, shaking it up enough to liquify the soil and then waiting as long as it takes for everything to settle so the water on top is absolutely clear.

[primal1]

yes the slits are all around, it's a standard agricultural pipe for tiling.
We did that soil test in the horticulture course i took.. i haven't done it here but i can tell you from experience i am in heavy clay.

[Cabin Fever]

So, if there are pebbles extending to the surface and there is water on top of the pepples, I would say you have either the pebbles or the sock is plugged or the tile is not sloping properly to its outlet. Of course, even if the sock was plugged, the water should still flow toward the outlet thru the pebbles.

[fishhead]

Originally Posted by Darren

I'm not familiar with the pipe you used. Where are the slits? All the way around? On the top only? On the bottom only?

This is an example of the results found for different soils by putting a sample of soil in a jar of water, shaking it up enough to liquify the soil and then waiting as long as it takes for everything to settle so the water on top is absolutely clear.

We did a similar test in soils class. We'd mix Calgon with the soil and water, mix it up with an old malted milk maker and then shut it off. After given time periods we'd mark the sediment level. I believe the 2 second mark gave the gravel or sand component.