Legal and taxes for Off Grid- where do I start?

[Horse chic]

Hello everyone,
Where would I start to look for more information on what I am looking at legally for my planned off the Grid homestead and taxes as well. 8O
Right now I am strongly looking at New Mexico. Does anyone know off grid homesteaders that might be able to enlighten me? Or someone who is familiar with the laws regarding off grid living there? I am also interested in learning about possibly running an off grid bed and breakfast.
Just seems the more I look into it the more complicated it gets......

Any help or direction is much appreciated
Catherine

[ET1 SS]

Originally Posted by Horse chic

Hello everyone,
Where would I start to look for more information on what I am looking at legally for my planned off the Grid homestead and taxes as well. ...

The further rural you go, the less laws exist.

We are grid-tied, though shifting to off-grid.

We have 150 acres, mostly forest, some swamp and 1/4 mile of river frontage.

Our house is 2400 sq ft and is taxed around $850/year. Our land is taxed around $157/year.

In our township there are a few who are totally off-grid. What questions do you have?

I am not sure what you are asking for.

[oneokie]

Suggest you contact the county govt. at the locations you are interested in locating and asking about their tax rates for various land uses. Also, tax rates for various structures that are or will be located on same property. (agricultural, residential, commercial) Also ask if there are multiple taxing entities at that location.

[Horse chic]

That is what I have been told the more rural the better the laws...or the less the laws.
I guess as far as taxes I was wondering what is going to be taxed? Just the land is the home taxed if there is not loan? What about other structures on the property?
I am also interested in what is allowed on a property before I buy it want to make sure I can do everything off grid and build what I want without being harassed.

[Horse chic]

I would like to know is there some state entity that I could contact to ask about a good location for this? Or do I have to start at a county level? Just becasue I have no land yet- but I don't want to buy and find out I can't build there :P

[goatlady]

Sounds as if you have a LOT of research ahead of you, gal. Property taxes have nothing to do with mortages/loans. Property taxes are levied and paid to the county the land/property is in - every year without fail or loss the property, paid on the land and any improvements, like buldings, ponds, fences,and chickenhouses! AS far as being off-grid that decision is totally up to the county planning/building commission. They set the standards of living conditions/buildings/health and safety for the county and issure the building permits . They are the one who tell you what you can build and what is not allowed. As far as having a B&B off grid, don't hardly think so cause having a business especially serving food take you into the land of FEDERAL laws, especially health/commercial kitchen regularions, etc none of which are written with anything BUT grid/traditional power requirements. No ceiling fire sprinklers? No license for the business. Your first step would be to write up your plan - exactly WHAT you want and want to accomplish. Keep that plan handy and update/change as necessary. When you start looking for a location, have that plan handy - ask questions from your plan about the property you are looking at - that way you learn what to look for and ask about. One NEVER buys property or even makes a bid on property before checking the building codes, water rights, power availability, property lines, mineral rights, etc. of the county the property is located in.

[ET1 SS]

Originally Posted by Horse chic

That is what I have been told the more rural the better the laws...or the less the laws.
I guess as far as taxes I was wondering what is going to be taxed?

Land is taxed, plus permanent structures on the land.

... Just the land is the home taxed if there is not loan?

Loans make no difference.

... What about other structures on the property?

Permanent structures get taxed.

... I am also interested in what is allowed on a property before I buy it want to make sure I can do everything off grid and build what I want without being harassed.

Is there some specific structure that you want on this land?

[ET1 SS]

Originally Posted by Horse chic

I would like to know is there some state entity that I could contact to ask about a good location for this? Or do I have to start at a county level? Just becasue I have no land yet- but I don't want to buy and find out I can't build there :P

A good location for what?

You can speak with county planning office, if you have questions about zoning.

So far you have not stated anything out of the ordinary that you want zoning for. I mean you said a B&B. A B&B is a house, usually with a licensed kitchen to serve meals in. You may need to have the water tested for the kitchen to be licensed.

If you very urban you may need the septic inspected. But not if your rural.

[ET1 SS]

Originally Posted by goatlady

Sounds as if you have a LOT of research ahead of you, gal. Property taxes have nothing to do with mortages/loans. Property taxes are levied and paid to the county the land/property is in - every year without fail or loss the property, paid on the land and any improvements, like buldings, ponds, fences,and chickenhouses!

Here ponds, fences and chicken coops are not taxed.

Only things that have stone or concrete foundation which makes them 'permanent'.

If you went more urban they might be taxed though.

... AS far as being off-grid that decision is totally up to the county planning/building commission. They set the standards of living conditions/buildings/health and safety for the county and issure the building permits . They are the one who tell you what you can build and what is not allowed. As far as having a B&B off grid, don't hardly think so cause having a business especially serving food take you into the land of FEDERAL laws, especially health/commercial kitchen regularions, etc none of which are written with anything BUT grid/traditional power requirements. No ceiling fire sprinklers? No license for the business.

Here the county will do building permits, but zoning is pretty loose.

You could have forest, or run cattle, row crops, a house, or a store front and it would all be the same zone.

Land-fills are highly regulated, as are gas stations, but only because of the EPA stuff, which the county does not touch. There are state agencies that oversee that stuff.



Serving food is a health regulation, not county zoning. So you need the health department. Their big thing is testing the water you use. If you have clean water then the health department gives you a licensed kitchen. With a licensed kitchen you can serve food, process food, can food for retail market.
Health laws may be written by the Federal government, but it is the local health department that enforces them.

In this area, having a licensed kitchen does not require you to be on grid. I see maple sugar shacks that have no power.

The Organic Certifying group's meeting hall I go to, is off-grid and they have fire sprinklers. Their big hurdle was to figure out a way to keep the water storage tank thawed through the winter. They use solar thermal panels.

Business licenses are issued by a completely different office of the county. That has no connection to zoning, or to the health department. A business license is more about taxes.

[12vman]

Check the stipulations of a "storage unit" and "housing". If you don't mind "visiting" a storage unit on a daily basis, the "game" changes..

Also, check the description of what the county considers "housing" and never meet them totally..

I visit mine daily, being I need to feed the critters, ya know..

[Horse chic]

Thank you everyone for the feedback. Looks like I got a lot of research to do.....

[sammyd]

you will have to as far as checking the township you want to be in.
Each township in our county has different rules

[texican]

If you live off the grid, and out of sight of the road, and without mortgages or liens, your home will be off the tax grid... until they discover it. I built off the grid, and was off the tax grid also, for 13 years... when a rich guy wanted to buy my place for $500/acre, when I knew he was going to be getting 50K/acre for everything he bought... I declined, of course. Next week (coincidence? don't believe in them) get a call from the appraisal district, wanting to visit my home. I'm on the grid, both utility and taxes now.

helpful hint: do not talk to the tax folks in your county you decide on about anything, or they will indeed 'help you'... by investigating you and finding what you have. There were no penalties involved with my county for not paying taxes for all those years... don't know about other areas.

[fordy]

Originally Posted by Horse chic

Thank you everyone for the feedback. Looks like I got a lot of research to do.....

.............In Tx they have this Tax called...."Roll Back Tax"..........when you purchase some acreage that has been taxed as agricultural , they Reclassify it as residential(I Think) which has a MUCH higher tax rate and they GO BACK 5 tax years and Refigure the property taxes and YOU have to Pay UP ! When , in reality they should tax the Seller , because it was the Seller who received the Benefit of the AG tax rate for however many years they owned it ! The local taxing Authority really Screws the Buyer Royally !
.............As I've pointed out many times in previous threads , Texas just spells.............TAXES........., fordy

[ET1 SS]

Originally Posted by fordy

.............In Tx they have this Tax called...."Roll Back Tax"..........when you purchase some acreage that has been taxed as agricultural , they Reclassify it as residential(I Think) which has a MUCH higher tax rate and they GO BACK 5 tax years and Refigure the property taxes and YOU have to Pay UP ! When , in reality they should tax the Seller , because it was the Seller who received the Benefit of the AG tax rate for however many years they owned it ! The local taxing Authority really Screws the Buyer Royally !
.............As I've pointed out many times in previous threads , Texas just spells.............TAXES........., fordy

In this state, we have 'Current Use' tax programs. Like:
'Farm' [for farming];
'Open Space' [for a public benefit like public recreation, scenic resources, game management or wildlife habitat];
'Treegrowth' [forest land];
and 'Working Waterfront' [piers].

Every few years, an owner must ask to keep the land in it's tax program.

If you fail to ask, then it comes out, and you get penalized huge.

If a new buyer failed to ask for his land to stay in it's current use program; then it would come out, and he would get a big bill.

[fordy]

..................I need to go back and reread the actual details of the rollback law but it is a bad deal for the buyer side of the property purchase ! , fordy

[Raymond James]

The amount of taxes you pay on the property and buildings would not matter if you had grid power or not in my county.

Nor would having grid power matter on the Health Permit for a kitchen. We have several permitted facilities that are not connected to the grid. Just got to meet all requirements of the food code/ it is a performance ode how you meet the requirement is your business. How you keep cold foods cold is your business- most use propane refrigerators/freezers. You have to have hot water so again usually propane but we have had a bakery with a hot water and oven done by wood. They build the fire than wait for hot water before washing hands and starting. Takes a while for the oven to reach temp anyway.
The food code is not a building code if you live in an area with a building code that describes
how the building and its systems have to be built there should be a solar section in it.


We had several structures resembling metal barns that were in fact houses that were taxed as agriculture structures ( lower rate than a house) . I do not know about penalties for taxes but I do know several of the owners got in trouble for not having a septic system- dumping human waste into streams.

We have no zoning and no building permits but do require a permit for the septic system in order to make sure one is put in and that it is big enough also installed correctly. Homeowners an install their own system but must have it inspected.

Putting human waste into a stream that your neighbor fishes out of, uses for swimming or waters cattle from is not OK.

As to attempting to build and hide the fact that you built to avoid taxes that is WRONG. I have had the discussion with people as to why they had to have the house on the tax rolls. They were ok with their 3 kids going to school, they used the library, they used the fire Department and the ambulance service but felt they were somehow special and should not have to help pay for anything.

They wanted to complain because the fire department and ambulance took so long to get to the house. You know the one that was not in the data base. No address on the lane. They felt that since they did not get mail delivered to he house that they did not need a post with the address. They were correct no law but were surprised with they were told to STFU when they had no address posted. Takes time to check every field lane to see if that is the lane you need, looking for a building that is not on the map.

I highly recommend you ask lots of questions of the local officials prior to purchase, prior to building .

For instance if you are going to build a pond you might get part of the cost paid if you agree to put in a dry hydrant and a gravel road for the fire department to use. It can lower your insurance rate and be a life safer/house safer if you have a fire.

How wide to make the drive way ? May not be a requirement but if you ever want an ambulance or fire truck you need to make sure they can get up your lane. If your culvert is only 4 1/2 feet wide because you have a jeep great but no one is bringing a large fire truck up that lane.

Mark your property and make it easy for the ambulance and fire truck to find your house. It may not be a law/requirement but some things just make sense.

[joebill]

I can tell you quite a bit about New Mexico, at least SW new Mexico. 20 acres, new house, lots of outbuildings, taxes around $300 per year. They don't consider it any of their business if you are off-grid or not.

If you are running a business like a B&B, your well should measure up to the proper standards and so should your septic. That's just common decency to your customers, although you could probably get by with less for years.

There is not a lot that you can't do here if you want to. Don't shoot at other people's houses or cattle, Don't drive drunk at 100mph, Don't try to tell others how to run their lives, stuff like that will get you in trouble fast, but at this time and place, you can build pretty much anything you want to however you want to and the only thing you'll hear from government is when they come put your building on the tax rolls.

We have open range here, so nobody has to keep their cattle off of your land. You can fence them out, or you can run them into the ground so they can't gain weight and your neighbors will pick them up.

If you are considering a B&B, you'd want to check on the seasonal presence of folks who might want to stay there. Different areas have different attractions that are seasonal. RV parks are also a reasonable bet. Anything else I can tell you, just ask....Joe

[joebill]

You WILL need to check properties for deed restrictions, unless you don't mind bucking the tide. Lots of Western properties during the land scam years had deed restrictions put on them, because people thought they were buying into high-end developments and there were going to be golf courses, etc.

As soon as the owners sold as many lots as they could in a hurry, no more improvements were made, but the restrictions remained. They are not enforceable by law, only by lawsuit, so mostly they are ignored. Nobody wants to pay a lawyer to try and force his neighbor to get rid of a couple of pigs or a mobile home, when it may not happen anyway, since the court's reactions to these are varied. BUT, if you are buying property for a specific purpose, it's worth checking.

I bought a place in NE New Mexico that was an ancient mercantile and residence and could do almost anything there, but it had a deed restriction that said I could not "make or sell" booze there, left over from around 100 years previous. I could have gotten around it, probably, but I had no desire to open a liquor store, so no problemo.

You can check the deed for restrictions before purchasing.....Joe

[luvrulz]

There is a hostel kind of place near Amicalola Falls State Park that is off grid.... You hike into it - it's at the beginning of the Appalachian Trail.... Is it called the Len Foote Hike Inn??? You might do some research on it, but it really depends on where your land is as far as how much the property taxes and stuff would be. And the legalities you would encounter..........