New guy questions?

[RazrRebel]

Hey everybody, new here just figured I'd say hi. Trying to be a little more self sufficient these days. My wife and I have three kids from 22 down to 4 and need all the savings I can get. I have 21 chickens of which 5 are roosters. They're only 6 weeks old so I have at least a couple of months before I get any eggs. I have one goat which is just a brush eater, and two ducks. I always put out a big garden. I have peas up, lettuce and onions up. Also cabbage, cauliflower, potatoes and corn in the ground. I make my own laundry detergent too. The wife and I would like to start some fruit trees this weekend. We were thinking 4 apples, 2 plum, 2 pear, and 2 peach. I've never planted any fruit trees so I need some help from the basics up. I live in Southwest Va. Any special variety? Standard or dwarf? My garden does pretty good so I think I can handle it just needed to get started. Any ideas or info would be great.

[bluemoonluck]

I'm no help with the fruit tree questions, but wanted to say HI and mention that in the Countryside Families forum there is a sticky for Tightwad Tips that always has lots of money-saving ideas in it. And at the top they have them archived so you can read thru what has been suggested for months past.

[RazrRebel]

Thanks BML

[Chucknbob]

I prefer dwarf trees, they're easier to pick from, and if you have to cover them to stop birds that is much easier too. As far as varities, your extent ion office or a local greenhouse could let you know what grows well

[Usingmyrights]

Dwarf trees would be easier to manage. I think that you have a lot of roosters for the number of hens you have. Unless you've got different different breeds and are looking into breeding pure breeds I'd cut back on the roosters. I'd look into getting a beehive. It really helps garden production and will provide you with a sugar substitute. If you head down to the S&P forum you'll get some more good info on top of what is here.

[RazrRebel]

Yeah, I have one rooster for each breed, Rhode Island Reds, Buff Orphingtons, White Leghorns, Dommers, and Delawares. After they start laying I would like to hatch off a few for butchering. I'd like to get my hens laying first. Tried to talk the wife into the bees, but right now its a no go. I was thinking dwarfs also. Thanks alot everyone!

[montysky]

We have full size trees why that is what my great grandfather planted for his bride many years ago. but my advise plant what the local grower is selling you know it will grow well in your area. also think about adding more apples and mix them up makes for a better cider we also love crabapples I would add them too. if you have the space.good luck and welcome

[Nimrod]

A fruit tree needs another of the same type but not the same variety to pollinate it except some cherries are self fertile. The type of trees I have won't be good for your area but I am going to use them for examples.

The Toka plumb will pollinate the Pipestone plumb and vice versa. The Golden Spice pear will pollinate the Ure pear and so on.

Apples varieties will bloom at different times. You need to have two varieties that bloom at the same time to pollinate each other.

Plant the same types close to each other so the pollen can get to the other.

Good luck.

[jwal10]

If you have the room plant semi-dwarf, the trees last a lot longer. Dig a big hole and ammend the soil for a good start. Keep the grass away from the trunks. Plant clover around the orchard, it draws bees and makes nitrogen. Make sure the graft is above the soil. I second, getting local trees, old varieties need less upkeep, sprays and such....James

[Miss Kay]

We used this company and can't say enough good things about them. We planted local trees the year before we ordered these and they have way passed them. My peach even had peaches on it but I pulled them off to give the tree more time to grow. I love the older varieties and they give lots of information about each. Not local but it talks about the zones they live in. Ours were even attacked by our geese (ate a lot of the bark off) and I just knew they were gone but we sprayed them with wound spray and they act like nothing ever happened to them. Good luck with your homestead. It will be such an adventure and your kids will be telling their kids about it.
http://www.treesofantiquity.com/inde...=index&cPath=1

[SJSFarm]

I'm starting a small orchard too, with dwarf trees.
Thanks Jwal10, I had no idea about the clover! Great.

I chose dwarf because of the easy protection; I had a single cherry tree that was ready for picking and in one night it was picked clean! I was soooo disapointed. I have bush cherries now. No fruit yet, they are too young, but I know I can protect them.

[geo in mi]

Here is some information you can study so you can find the right kind of fruit trees that will fit your needs and climate. First, apples need trees that are similar in variety so they can pollinate and make fruit. Here's the standard chart of pollinators you can use when choosing. http://www.acnursery.com/apple_pollinizer.pdf

Since you live toward the Solurhern edge of the Us, you will also need to consider something called chill hours. Your number of chill hours may be lower than the Northern areas where apples do well, but some varieties will be okay. When you go to a nursery or catalog, you will want to know if the plant in question has the lower hours required for your area:

And, your own state cooperative extension looks like a wealth of resources for you. Just click down to the Crops and Soils tab; http://www.ext.vt.edu/

Finally, this is NOT an endorsement, but you might find growing information and 'orchard packages' that might interest you: http://www.raintreenursery.com/home.php

Hope this will help you get started.

geo

[hippygirl]

Originally Posted by Usingmyrights

Dwarf trees would be easier to manage. I think that you have a lot of roosters for the number of hens you have. Unless you've got different different breeds and are looking into breeding pure breeds I'd cut back on the roosters. I'd look into getting a beehive. It really helps garden production and will provide you with a sugar substitute. If you head down to the S&P forum you'll get some more good info on top of what is here.

Oh yeah, like cutting back to only ONE unless you're going to separate the breeds.

Roosters care nothing about purity of breed...basically, if it moves, they'll top it. Right now, I have two roosters and 19 hens and as soon as I can find someone who wants a GIANT Buff Orpington rooster (IMO, he's too far gone for the stew pot), Big Daddy is g-o-n-e...my poor girls need a break AND their back feathers!

[RazrRebel]

Thanks for all the replies. The one thing I was wondering, is pollination needed just for the fruit bearing. What I mean is, if they don't pollinate they still grow the next year right? If that's the case they will be to young to bear fruit the first year anyway right? Also as to the roosters I will be separating them so I when I breed them I can have purebred chicks.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by hippygirl

Oh yeah, like cutting back to only ONE unless you're going to separate the breeds.

Roosters care nothing about purity of breed...basically, if it moves, they'll top it. Right now, I have two roosters and 19 hens and as soon as I can find someone who wants a GIANT Buff Orpington rooster (IMO, he's too far gone for the stew pot), Big Daddy is g-o-n-e...my poor girls need a break AND their back feathers!

Pressure cook after searing.

[Rick]

All of our semi-dwarf fruit trees are 25 feet from the closest other tree.

Use plenty of compost and peat moss with the top soil. Sprinkle of bone meal and wood ash. Test you holes for drainage.

Dig your hole much wider than the root ball - someone else might define that for you. Do not bury the "bump" where the graft is evident.

Get those older ones digging!

[Tricky Grama]

Welcome! You'll love it.

Patty

[Fire-Man]

Originally Posted by RazrRebel

They're only 6 weeks old so I have at least a couple of months before I get any eggs

Probably more like 4 months.

Originally Posted by RazrRebel

Yeah, I have one rooster for each breed, Rhode Island Reds, Buff Orphingtons, White Leghorns, Dommers, and Delawares. After they start laying I would like to hatch off a few for butchering.

As already stated, if you want a Pure Breed, you will have to build a seperate place to keep each different breed and this needs to be done a couple months before you hatch out any eggs. If you are not going to seperate them then you will probably need to eliminate some roosters so you do Not have a War between them when they get older. Good Luck.

[geo in mi]

Originally Posted by RazrRebel

Thanks for all the replies. The one thing I was wondering, is pollination needed just for the fruit bearing. What I mean is, if they don't pollinate they still grow the next year right? If that's the case they will be to young to bear fruit the first year anyway right? Also as to the roosters I will be separating them so I when I breed them I can have purebred chicks.

Yes, pollination is needed for the fruit, but the tree will keep growing and getting bigger....And different trees, will take more than one or two to produce fruit, maybe longer, to produce enough to be considered a crop--that's why you want to study pruning techniques so you can shape the young branches so as to produce the most fruit...


"Also as to the roosters I will be separating them so I when I breed them I can have purebred chicks."
Just funnin' with you, but you don't breed roosters.... , But seriously, yes, you keep breeds seperate so that like breeds like and the chicks will be "purebred", at least as pure as their forebearers.

geo

[ronbre]

make sure you check which pollinate which, standards are hardier than dwarfs if you have the room, always make sure you break thru the hardpan when digging your holes or the roots won't be able to forage below it and always gather a gallon or more of native forest duff/soil/bits of branches etc. from a nearby woodland to put at the just below graft area of the refilling of the hole of your planting, to bring in the proper microherds, and clear an area of grass at least past the adult drip line of the tree soon after planting and put in some dynamic accumulators, insectory and nigrogen fixing plants in that area that you have cleared of grass..and add mulch, preferably one that is organic and will break down..

read up on edible forest or food forest gardens to get more tips

good reading would be the forest gardening threads at www.permies.com