Newbie looking for a reality check

[78Parrothead]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the forum and after reading here for a day and a half I think I need a reality check.

We live in northern New England (zone 3-4). Last year we bought ten and a half acres of land. We plan on building spring of 14. Roughly two acres is pasture/grass. The rest is wooded.

The plan is to build a house, plant fruit trees, berries and gardens which will produce most of our food. We are flexitarians and don't eat much meat. We are hoping that dh's limited hunting will provide the majority of our meat needs. We also plan to keep bees, tap our trees, and raise chickens for eggs.

Until reading the livestock threads I thought maybe we could have dairy sheep to fill that need. But I don't think we have enough cleared pasture for sheep and I have no idea how to sell mutton or lamb in this area. Here is were the reality check comes in.

We really are not interested in marketing products. Our operations will be very small scale. At present we are only interested in our own needs and possibly bartering with excess. I do hope to move into bee products in a few years. Of course that probably won't pay the power bill much less sustain us. Dh has an excellent career which he will stick with. He will retire in 16 years. Then has plans for a second career that doesn't include gentleman farmer.

Quite a lot of the manpower is going to come from me. I'm a middle-aged woman and know my limitations. But I'm also determined that this will work.

Our main reason for this move is so we know where our food comes from. We are concerned about commercial farming and feedlot practices and would like to not add to that demand. We would like to be as sustainable as a one and a half person op can be.

So am I crazy to think I want sheep on top of the food production and the bees and the chickens? Am I crazy to want the bees and chickens?

[wolffeathers]

I would think that a few sheep, bees and chickens are very manageable.

If the property is mostly wooded, I would look more seriously at goats than sheep. Goats are browsers who do better in wooded lots, while sheep do need more pasture. You could use the goats for dairy and meat quite easily. If you were to use registered dairy goats, the kids could bring a pretty decent price if you opted to sell/barter instead of consume.

Put the goats in the woods. Use the pasture/open side for your garden and orchard. You will need to keep the goats/sheep out of the fruit trees and berries anyway.

[bluemoonluck]

If your predator situation is such that you can free-range your chickens, that will help keep their feed bill down in the summer. But even with free-ranging, you're going to need to give them feed.... which means more than likely you'll be feeding commercial chicken feed. If you're concerned about what goes into your food, you may want to start researching what goes into commercial chicken feeds, find out what feeds you're okay with, and find out if any of your local feed stores carry it.

Something else to keep in mind!

[78Parrothead]

Originally Posted by wolffeathers

I would think that a few sheep, bees and chickens are very manageable.

If the property is mostly wooded, I would look more seriously at goats than sheep. Goats are browsers who do better in wooded lots, while sheep do need more pasture. You could use the goats for dairy and meat quite easily. If you were to use registered dairy goats, the kids could bring a pretty decent price if you opted to sell/barter instead of consume.

Put the goats in the woods. Use the pasture/open side for your garden and orchard. You will need to keep the goats/sheep out of the fruit trees and berries anyway.

I had originally considered goats, but in my reading over the last few weeks I found that they are difficult to keep healthy.

[78Parrothead]

Originally Posted by bluemoonluck

If your predator situation is such that you can free-range your chickens, that will help keep their feed bill down in the summer. But even with free-ranging, you're going to need to give them feed.... which means more than likely you'll be feeding commercial chicken feed. If you're concerned about what goes into your food, you may want to start researching what goes into commercial chicken feeds, find out what feeds you're okay with, and find out if any of your local feed stores carry it.

Something else to keep in mind!

I do have a local feed store that carries organic chicken feed. I hope to have some guard dogs to help with predators sooner rather than later. We currently have a Basset hound wannabe with a high prey drive. So either the dog or the chicks won't be free range until we can get up some good fences.

[wolffeathers]

I will admit when I first started learning about goats, it seemed they would be difficult. Which is one reason I started with a dairy cow. Now the cow is gone and I have a herd of dairy goats. Once you learn which wormers are effective and their need for minerals, they are pretty hardy animals. I imagine you still have to deworm sheep and provide different minerals for them as well.

Bottle baby goats can be challenging, if you are reading the goat forum. I share milk my goats. So the babies get the mothers at night, but are separated during the day so I can milk. That way their mother still raises them.

You could always clear out some of the woods and try to convert it to pasture for sheep, since they are your preference.

[78Parrothead]

Thanks for the info. I'll read more about the goats. How much space do goats need? I'll go check out the goat forum.

We do still have quite some time to decide. And yes, I did think maybe we could clear an acre for pasture. We can always use the wood for the winters.

[Rustaholic]

I will just say whatever you do start, Start small.
Reading your posts it sounds like you are new to the land, garden and critter lifestyle. By all means ask questions here and start one thing at a time. Soon you will learn what works for you.

[78Parrothead]

Originally Posted by Rustaholic

I will just say whatever you do start, Start small.
Reading your posts it sounds like you are new to the land, garden and critter lifestyle. By all means ask questions here and start one thing at a time. Soon you will learn what works for you.

Not too new to the gardening or processing (freezing, canning and dehydrating). And dh is a farm boy (peanuts and cotton) from south Georgia. But, yes, livestock is new to us. I babysit my friend's chickens when she is away. That is the extent of our interaction beyond dogs and cats.

We will be a small operation since we are a small family and only interested at present in producing enough for our needs.

[Horseyrider]

Originally Posted by 78Parrothead

Quite a lot of the manpower is going to come from me. I'm a middle-aged woman and know my limitations. But I'm also determined that this will work.

Don't be discouraged if at first it's plenty hard. I first moved to our homestead in the country at the age of 28. I'd had a really large garden before, and thought I'd be able to handle it all. I was shocked at how sore, stiff, and tired I could get.

But guess what? The more you do it, the more you *can* do it. Now I'm 58 and can run circles around my younger self. If I have to move a couple hundred bales of hay from one side of the loft to the other, and still do chores, mow the lawn, work in the garden, etc, I can do it and I won't even get sore. At the end of the day I'll just be tired. At 28 it would've about killed me.

I agree with starting small. It helps us to assess our priorities. And in your plans, I hope you consider installing an old fashioned clothesline in a pretty spot outside. Then at night, when you lay your tired head down on fresh clean sheets that smell of sunshine and summer breezes, you'll get a sneak peak of heaven.

[78Parrothead]

Originally Posted by Horseyrider

And in your plans, I hope you consider installing an old fashioned clothesline in a pretty spot outside. Then at night, when you lay your tired head down on fresh clean sheets that smell of sunshine and summer breezes, you'll get a sneak peak of heaven.

Believe it or not, I already have the pulleys and the clothes pins. There is no convenient place to put them on this rental.

[Nate_in_IN]

Best advice I have is to get to know your neighbors. Even before you build your house.

Chances are there will be people in the community with which you can barter with. This way you can focus on one item, say bees, then trade some extra honey to someone who has extra eggs. I thought I would put out a huge garden until I met a gentleman down the road who is a superb gardener. We made an arrangement where we exchange firewood for garden produce. It saved a lot of time spent fencing off a garden and I still get great produce.

Best of luck at the new location. It sounds wonderful.

Nate

[jennigrey]

Fencing and fruit trees first. No goats or sheep till you get those in. Even if it means you have to hire someone to mow the pastures twice a year for the first year or two. Chickens can come after you get a bit of fencing up to keep the dog away from them. Don't get more than one new species of animal per year.

[Bret]

Chickens are fun and easy. They are messy and when you plant things, you have to protect what you plant or the chickens will unplant things for you. You will laugh everytime you eat one your own produced eggs. It just happens.

Bees need our help so much. I want to so bad but I have too much going. You have to pick and choose sometimes.

Keep it fun and interesting.

[78Parrothead]

Originally Posted by Nate_in_IN

Best advice I have is to get to know your neighbors. Even before you build your house.

Chances are there will be people in the community with which you can barter with. This way you can focus on one item, say bees, then trade some extra honey to someone who has extra eggs. I thought I would put out a huge garden until I met a gentleman down the road who is a superb gardener. We made an arrangement where we exchange firewood for garden produce. It saved a lot of time spent fencing off a garden and I still get great produce.

Best of luck at the new location. It sounds wonderful.

Nate

Thanks. My closest neighbor will be 1/4 of a mile away. He is 85 if he is a day. Nice guy.

We are surrounded by woods.

[78Parrothead]

Originally Posted by jennigrey

Fencing and fruit trees first. No goats or sheep till you get those in. Even if it means you have to hire someone to mow the pastures twice a year for the first year or two. Chickens can come after you get a bit of fencing up to keep the dog away from them. Don't get more than one new species of animal per year.

We are hoping to get the fruit trees in this spring. We went out there this weekend and the place is still covered in a foot of snow.

What kind of fence would be best? We do occasionally have black bears and there are lots of moose and deer. Would we want to fence in the entire field or just were we will be having food the wild critters might want?

[DarleneJ]

I'd start by fencing my garden and protecting the fruit trees from the deer. Now is the time to acquire chicks if you want to enjoy eggs in the fall.

We just moved in mid-January and have to start up everything at our place. I've already put in raised beds for the plants that will come back year after year. Asparagus, strawberries (and onions to keep the deer away) and sunchokes.

We're busy converting a rat trap old green house into a chicken coop. (Hopefully a new greenhouse in the fall maybe.) ...And our bees come in about two weeks.

Bees were a very time-consuming project for us because we are new to them and there is such a learning curve.

I would like to get a Dexter (1/2-sized cow) for milk and meat, but we have to fence here as well so that may end up being a summer/fall project as well. We so want to make our own milk/cheese/yogurt without adding the aspartame...

The Dexters can be kept on a smaller-sized acreage and will also eat brush as well as graze.

We have no shortage of room, just well, time...

If homesteading is where your heart is at, then go for it - especially if you have the support of a good man. My husband is willing to pitch in when needed, but as he's the full-time breadwinner, his time is limited.

The key is priorities. Set them, then reset them, then reset them again. You'll learn and come with what works best for you. This forum can be very helpful and so is talking to others you meet about their gardens, animals and methods.

Our new place has some very old huge maples that we tapped this spring. Our first. It went great and we learned a lot.

One tool that I have found helps me out a lot as I am your age is a small dump cart (from lowes or something) that is hooked up to an ATV (or a riding lawnmower would work). Having something to haul with is a huge strength-saver for me.

Getting it started is a lot of work. Keeping it going, not so much - with a good system. Good Luck.

Oh and I'm 48 too.

[johng]

Chickens are a good place to start. They aren't hard to care for and are a lot of fun. Honey bees are even more fun. The honey bees can be somewhat challenging and there is more to learn. See if you can find a local mentor to help get you started. Also join your local bee club if there is one available.

[jennigrey]

Originally Posted by 78Parrothead

We are hoping to get the fruit trees in this spring. We went out there this weekend and the place is still covered in a foot of snow.

What kind of fence would be best? We do occasionally have black bears and there are lots of moose and deer. Would we want to fence in the entire field or just were we will be having food the wild critters might want?

If you want to graze animals on the pasture, you will need to fence it. Mesh fence that is 4' high and has opening that are 4" by 4" is ideal for sheep and goats because they can't get their idiot heads stuck in it, unlike mesh fence with larger openings. It is future-proof because it will also contain baby sheep and baby goats.

Fence around the orchard will need to be taller, to keep out deer and moose. Strands of hot wire or barbed wire will not stop moose. You will need mesh from the ground up to about 4' and then you will need the total height of the fence to be about 8' to keep the deer out. How you go about gaining that additional 4' of height will be up to you. There's different ways of doing it. Several strands of high-tensile wire might be sufficient. The mesh that you use for the lower 4' of the fence will depend on whether it will have goats/sheep against it. If it does, then use the 4" x 4" mesh. If it doesn't, then field fence should suffice (6" x 6" openings).

How deep does the snow get? Would it get deep enough that goats/sheep would be able to just walk over fence?

[jennigrey]

In a perfect world, you would have a perimeter fence around your entire property, sufficient to keep out the wild critters (including deer, moose, bears, coyotes and stray dogs) and keep in your domesticated ones (including goats/sheep, chickens, pet dog). That's pretty expensive, though. So you usually have to pick and choose your battles. That will vary according to what critters you have, what kind of predator pressure you have and how safe is "safe". For example, my husband is taking no chances with his pet egg flock of hens. We have too many coyotes and neighborhood dogs. He does not allow his hens to free-range. We built them a Fort Knox and all of their food is provided by us. This results in a higher feed bill. Others let their chickens range around and come home to roost at night. Lower feed bill. Occasional losses.