Ya wanna feel like an idiot?

[FarmboyBill]

Check out many of the U Tubes advertiseing how to drill your own well.
lots of the stuff that seems understandable to them, cause theyve done it several times, leaves me not knowing what im seeing or why.
Also, Theyve got a doz at least different ways of doing it, and while many have some things in commion, Most have different ways of doing things so that, I dont know which is the best way, as I dont understand the concepts of why they are doing it at all, ANY WAY.
I think Im going to have to buy a DVD on how a certain way a well is drilled, and watch it a doz times to get alla the kinks ironed out.

[Sawmill Jim]

Shucks go to your local oil patch watch them same rigs just bigger ,or ask the tool pusher he'll know .

[FarmboyBill]

Aint no one drilling here anymore here.

These ive seen on U tubes, uses alot of PVC pipe, and various ways to drill, various ways to have water/mud, various ways to get water down the pipe, various ways to bring it up. Each has their own recommendations of how they do it, with as posted above not always telling all about what there doing. some has a list of items needed that one can either make or buy. Some dont. None of the items are near the same from discription to discription.

[rambler]

Heck I can feel like an idiot without having to watch anyone else's video, just all on my own....

Dad was looking to dig a well back in the 60s, needed to get away from the 3 foot shallow well where it was. He was hoping to put in another 3 foot shallow style somewhere else, they dug 2 holes but didnt find anything.

He then got out the post hole digger - the type you spin a couple revolutions by hand, and pull out the dirt. He got lengths of pipe and went down about 25-30 feet that way, was quite a deal to pull the pipe back up for each 10 inches or so of dirt.....

He didnt hit anything that way either, but was impressive as a little kid to watch him work on that an hour or 2 each nite.

Came to his senses and had a proper deep well dug, 260 feet, lots of water.

Paul

[uncle Will in In.]

Are you wanting a new well on your place?? Wasn't there a well there before now?? Can't the old well be pulled or just put a neew screne on it?? Tell us why and where you want a new well. Also what method you want to use to get a pipe down to the water table.. How deep do you think the well needs to be.Is the ground too rocky to just drive down a sandpoint??

[frogmammy]

Bill, if your water is on a hill, why not just run pipe?

Mon

[joebill]

Originally Posted by FarmboyBill

Check out many of the U Tubes advertiseing how to drill your own well.
lots of the stuff that seems understandable to them, cause theyve done it several times, leaves me not knowing what im seeing or why.
Also, Theyve got a doz at least different ways of doing it, and while many have some things in commion, Most have different ways of doing things so that, I dont know which is the best way, as I dont understand the concepts of why they are doing it at all, ANY WAY.
I think Im going to have to buy a DVD on how a certain way a well is drilled, and watch it a doz times to get alla the kinks ironed out.

Lots of ways of doing it, but a lot depends on your particular circumstances;

First off, how far do you expect to dig?

Then, what are you going to be digging through, in terms of dirt, cobbles, solid rock, etc,?

Are you mechanicaly inclined with lots of handy junk and machine tools laying around or are you the guy that can screw up a 200# anvil with a tack hammer?

If you'll answer those questions for yourself first, then get a copy of a book written by Johnson Well Screens titled "ground water and wells" or some such title, and then read it, you'll know more about well drilling than most of the guys on youtube, and be more nearly ready to drill your well. That book was the basis of the state test for a temporary driller's license when I passed it years ago.

Frankly, I think most of the popular well drilling schemes are too complex and likely to lose a tool string or two and lead to utter failure in anything but soft dirt.

I drilled about 50 feet and was still ging strong through mixed dirt and rock using a very simple rig. It was an engine with a small cat-head pulley on the crankshaft being used as a capstan winch, the rope running up to a snatch block ( another pulley) mounted on a tripod.

The drilling tool was what the book called a "calafornia mud scow" but was just a chunk of heavy pipe about 5 feet long with a one-way bailer valve in the bottom to let mud in but not back out. It had digging teeth (railroad spikes) welded around the bottom to make mud in the bottom of the hole.

Throw a few gallons of water in the hole and lift the scow by the winch rope. Let it fall to the bottom, then raise and drop it until it is heavy enough to be full, raise it, dump it, rinse and repeat. The fuller (heavier) it is, the faster it digs. You learn to flip the rope on the cathead to get a friction free release and lots of other little tricks the first hour, after that, you have it.

I did run into a boulder down there that I either broke up or shoved out of the way by removing the scow and using a long chunk of railroad iron on it. Same action, only don't raise it out of the hole until the sounds coming at you tell you that you are not hitting solid rock any more.

This is "cable tool" drilling at it's most basic. You can complicate it beyond belief, but if you keep it simple, the most you have to lose is whatever is down the hole, and if you make your own scow, that sure ain't much. If I can be of any help....Speak......jOE

[FarmboyBill]

The place im looking at, and will go see sell on the courthouse steps Thurs, OF WHICH I wont be able to buy, BUT, If it dosent meet the owner Cos minimum, My banker has told me they might give it to a realitor for awhile. IF that happens, then The bank would OK it for me. IF, when they consign it to a realitor they lower the minimum, OR I have enough in a pension I have to meet the difference.

It has city gas and rural water. I would want to pretty soon after getting it have a well drilled.
There is one heck of a hill around a good 1/8th mile just beyond the back property line. It has rock in it, but mostly sandstone, and mostly no bigger than between a football and a basketball.

Why am I thinking about things needed to do to a place I likely wont own, at least by current trends? Cause Im retired and got lots of time, and so I naturally have to find problems to think about.

JB I have NO idea how far ID have to dig There is a slight uphill on both sides of it, and it sets rather low on a slope from the east.
How do you expect one to know whats down in the ground a 100ft or so?
yes im somewhat mechanically inclined. I can weld good and torch also, and have both. Stick welder, chop saw, vise, anvil
You say you used an engine, Was it side shaft or bottom shaft? What HP, What was it mounted to?
What is a cats head pulley, and how would you mount it onto the engine shaft?
Once the engine had raised the rope going through the other pulley at the top of the tripod, how did you stop it , and how did you trip it to fall hard, back into the hole?

What is a one way bailer valve. Where do I buy one at, and at what price? how does it operate?
How do you FLIP the rope to release i? IF the rope is fastened to the engine pulley, its not going to stop when you want it to unless you kill the engine?

Seems like the spikes would catch on the sides, and slow down the decent to where, at say 20 ft it was hardly hitting the bottom.

When I had thought to redrill out the well on this place that I live on currently, I had made a piece of iron pipe around 2ft by 4in that was sharpened on the end. I was going to weld this to a heavy guage pipe of some length, more to gain weight than much else.At the other end of this pipe I was going to weld 2in stobs to each side and make a 1in rod handle to go around the stobs and above the end of the pipe. The stobs could be bolts. The pipe could be made smaller dia to fit inside the end piece so as to give a bit more room at the upper end where the handle was for the bolts, but they would drag the sides regardless, finally grooveing a way to allow there passage down the sides of the hole.
I was going to do as you did with the tripod and pulleys, the ground one being within 5ft of the hole, the rope then going out to a tractor which would raise the pipe. i dont know the weight of 3in thick wall pipe, but even being without the end piece and it fulla mud, It would be Heavy. I had at one time a trip release for a plow. It mounted onto the drawbar, and you only had to step on it to release the plow. I might have to hit it with a hammer to release it, but it should work. IF It wouldnt, Ive got another way of doing it.

The driver would pull and release the rope, dropping the pipe till someone thought it was full enough, then raise it. There would be a couple of saw horses set up around 5ft shy of the length of the pipe, apart. When the bottom was out of the ground, one or 2 people would grab it and start walking out to the far sawhorse while the tractor backed up. Once on both saw horses, a ramrod would be forced or hammered down the pipe emptying the mud onto a tumble bug which, when full would be hauled away and dumped in a good spot.
Once the pipe was deemed empty, the end piece would be lifted off the sawhorse while the tractor pulled the other end off and up. The pipe would be positioned above the hole by somebody, and when satisfied, would make a sign to trip it which the driver would do.

I can see dumping water down the hole ever 1/2hr or so, as there is no way to DRILL with my setup, and as you would likely think it was slow running, that would give the water time to seep into the ground.

[FarmboyBill]

Id p;ut the powdered MUD mix into the water to help hold and somewhat seal the sides.

[Fire-Man]

Originally Posted by FarmboyBill

Check out many of the U Tubes advertiseing how to drill your own well.
lots of the stuff that seems understandable to them, cause theyve done it several times, leaves me not knowing what im seeing or why.
Also, Theyve got a doz at least different ways of doing it, and while many have some things in commion, Most have different ways of doing things so that, I dont know which is the best way, as I dont understand the concepts of why they are doing it at all, ANY WAY.
I think Im going to have to buy a DVD on how a certain way a well is drilled, and watch it a doz times to get alla the kinks ironed out.

FBB, most of the Do-It-Yourself deals is washing down a well. If you got rock etc you are not going to be able to wash a well down. I have washed several down and have loaned my pipe and/or told several others in my County how to wash theirs down. Its not a problem if you can wash it down. (Let me say this before I go any futher---I always wash Down where I will have a 2" pvc pipe and 2" pvc screen well because I am always after The Most GPM I can get--you can go with a smaller pipe if you want))
I always do a quick test to see if washing one down at a certain location is possible. I glue up about 80ft of 3/4" sch 40 pipe and hook a water hose to the end of it and turn the water on full open. Its best if you have a helper but can be done by yourself. I have a friend stand on a tall step ladder---he lays the pipe across his shoulder and allows the pipe to bend to the dirt where I make sure the pipe it straight up and down and I start pushing it into the dirt with the force of the water washing it out. We keep this going till we hit a stream and then we keep up with how much pipe is going down till the pipe bottoms out in the stream. Lets say I hit a stream at 22ft and the bottom of the stream was 28ft. That shallow of a stream would be of for a hand pump but trying to get gallons of water per minute could be a problem with a shollow stream. I have hit a stream at 22ft and it bottomed out at 32ft and I could pump 22GPM out of it 24/7. Any stream shallower than 8ft for myself is to shallow to try and get a larger volume of water out of so I wash it down deeper. In my area I usually hit another stream at around 38 to 40ft and It is usually 12 to 15ft deep, This is where I go. If this 3/4" pipe goes down to that depth and I am in a stream that deep---I start pulling the 3/4" pipe back out the ground letting the water pressure push it back up mainly. I then set-up to wash the well down. I use 10ft sections of 3" pvc with male and female threads glued to each end. I wash this down with a Large Farm type pump that will pump about 100GPM from what ever water source I have rigged up. I wash down 10ft then add another 10ft and wash it down then add another 10ft etc, etc until I get down to the depth I want(in a stream) I then glue 2" pvc to ever how much pvc screen I am going to use(according to how deep the stream is) I drop this 2" pipe down inside the 3" being careful to not drop it and making sure the glue has dried enough on each joint so it will hold as I continue dropping it. When it hits the bottom of the well I saw off the extra and pop on a end cap---rehook my hose, crank the pump and wash the 3" back out the dirt 10ft at the time until I get it all out, which will leave the 2" in the ground. I hook a pump to it and start pumping water. Always worked good for me! I have one pump beside my pond that produces 42gpm 24/7 and I have run it for weeks at the time---its 52ft deep. If you need some more info Holler.

[michiganfarmer]

I have a choice? I thought it was just normal for me every day. lol

[Bret]

Help Mr. Wizard. I don't want to be an idiot anymore. But I would like to have an extra shallow type well and solar pump to water calves on the other side of a state road. So, I will enjoy following this thread. Thanks.

[FarmboyBill]

IF you , JB or FM drill a well, please make a DVD of it, and Ill pay for it. I imagine others would too.

[Fire-Man]

Originally Posted by FarmboyBill

IF you , JB or FM drill a well, please make a DVD of it, and Ill pay for it. I imagine others would too.

FBB, keep in mind I CAN NOT drill a well. I do not have a well drilling rig. I WASH down wells. If I hit rocks, I have to move to another spot and try again. Where I live we do not have much rock around. 2 wells I washed down I hit smaller rocks and moved like 100ft away and the well washed down without a problem.

FBB the well beside my pond is 52ft deep. I had a friend come over to help me----I had everything ready when he got here. We started washing down the well at 10am, when we got it down we hooked up a pump and was pumping 42gpm---it was 10:55am. 55 minutes--I had no idea we would get it done that fast and we were not in a hurry. We did not hit no rocks on that well. Its been down almost 20 years and I have a 3hp electric Berkley pump on it. It was put down to add water to my nature made pond next to it. The pond was also dug out more but that did not help the water level, so I just run this pump during the dry times to add some water.

[joebill]

OK, to guess how far you'll go to water, check with well drillers in the area. That works in most areas, but it's always a gamble. Best to make it the smallest gamble possible by not pouring in the big bucks. If a driller drills you a dry hole, you still will probably owe him $X per foot. It's really a well drillers heart that things are colder than

A cat-head pulley is another word for a capstan. It's a very cute type of winch that uses manilla (not sisal) rope. It's simply a revolving cylinder, sometimes straight and sometimes hour glass shape. Either works. Your rope is attached to the weight and wrapped around the pulley that's powered by an engine, motor, whatever. Prefferably not very fast. Pulley might be from 3 to four inches diameter.

You pull on the rope and the friction between the rope and the pulley lifts the weight when it tightens around the pulley. If it does not, then take another wrap and try it again. Increase wraps until weight is lifted with only enough effort from you to tighten the rope. let the engine do the work. Good to have guides to keep the rope on the pulley when it is slack. Same principle where a cowboy can wrap a rope around the horn a stop a 1000 pound bull in it's tracks without a knot in the rope. Just need the right number of turns

If you are "pounding", lift the weight by pulling the rope from fully extended arm forwards to fully extended arm backwards, then as you move your arm back to the forward position, the rope will have a wave of slack that will help lift it from the pulley and the weight will fall like it was turned loose completely after you get the knack. As soon as the scow kisses bottom, you'll already be sweeping back, so it only sorta "bounces", keeping it from flopping around too much.

i didn't have spikes welded around the outside, but the very tips of them welded to the botttom around the mud hole. My scow was probably 6 or 8" pipe with a kind of part like a big flat washer welded in the bottom end of it. That was for the flapper valve to seat against. Come to think of it, I believe that the flapper also pivoted from the top of that same part.

I do know that I called Johnson, since I had their book, and asked the price of a bailer valve that I could just weld into the pipe and they quoted me $900 and that was in 1984! made my own the next morning before lunch. I remember that at first I put a rubber seal on it, but then it just picked up my water so I took off the seal so the water would leak back out and started getting mud.

Took a bit to get the feel. Too much water in the hole it slowed down the scow before it hit bottom. Too little water, the scow wanted to stick in the mud.

As far as the capstan rig, they use them often to drag pipe to the rig on bigger rotary and cable tool rigs, and I have seen them sinking those big green timbers beside the interstate into solid ground by hammering with them. A friend drilled a deep well through nearly solid rock with one near Prescott AZ when he was young. took nearly all summer.

Some of the regular bailers have a rod attacked to the middle of the flapper valve so they can sit it on a board to dump it, but mine was for drilling, not bailing water, so when I brought it up full of mud, I dumped the mud out of the top......Making sense?....Joe

[joebill]

By the way, we have also used a rear truck wheel as a capstan winch in logging. Put the rear bumper of the truck against a tree so you don't jerk the truck down the mountain, put a bare rim on the rear of the truck, wrap the rope around it a time or two and you can pull on the rope and snake logs up the hill....Joe

[FarmboyBill]

FM What constitutes washing a well?

JB. I can read all day long and not understand nothing. Ive got to see it IF it gets a bit complicated.
What did you think of my idea. Could it fly, or could it use improvement?

[FarmboyBill]

I can see where I could chain a truck to the tractor, and raise one rear end up and put on a rim. I dont think the rim would hold enough rope. Dont know. AT any rate. I have a spare rear rim for a tractor that I could chain to another tractor, and raise olne side and put on the rim and wrap the rope easily around that.

[FarmboyBill]

IF I had the tractor, I could set it next to the drill site. Within min 10ft.

[FarmboyBill]

Do away with the ground pulley.