What are some of the most common legal barriers to Homesteading?

teamswag · #1 03/04/13, 07:31 AM

Currently, I am a paralegal student with a degree in criminal justice. When I finish School I plan to continue a internship at the Attorney General's office for consumer protection, and hopefully this experience and education will help me acquire a job. With this Job I hope to save up enough money to start homesteading in a area not too far from my job.

What Salary should I at least be making to start homesteading in urban/ suburban/ rural areas?

What are the most common legal barriers for getting started when it comes to trying to start a urban/ suburban / rural homestead?

One of the areas I am most interested in currently is trying to take over land in areas that have been commercially zoned, and turn this land into my own productive residence. For, example I live just outside Philadelphia and their is plenty of land which has been commercially zoned, but is currently unused and on sale. Furthermore there are tons of Abandoned Property which can be taken over by adverse possession or through PA's own interesting law here:http://www.rhls.org/documents/Conser...Dec09Draft.pdf

Alice In TX/MO · #2 03/04/13, 07:57 AM

Welcome to the board. I see this is your first post.

There is not an answer to question one. Some start because they don't have money. Some get into it because they sold their portfolio and retired to the country. Other answers fall somewhere in between.

Legal barriers are totally location dependent. In the Ozarks, there aren't many at all. If you try to homestead (i.e. have chickens and goats) in your back yard in Houston, Texas, you'll have trouble with the HOA and zoning.

So, there's no way to answer your questions in less than a book for each.

RomeGrower · #3 03/04/13, 10:35 AM

I'd like to know why so many towns/cities do not allow poultry. They are not as noisy or dangerous as dogs. They can be easily controlled and fun. They are not ugly like trash laying around or junky looking cars. There seems to just be a bias against it and I don't know where it comes from or what the legitimate reasons are for it.

Alice In TX/MO · #4 03/04/13, 10:47 AM

Noise. Roosters. Chicken poo. Flies.

kwagner21 · #5 03/04/13, 10:47 AM

it is actually changing in a lot of cities (the chicken laws). Aso far as I understand it they just got lumped in with livestock in general and there wasn't enough people to make a fuss over keeping chickens. now you have things like backyard chickens gaining popularity and more and more cities are changing the laws to allow chickens, even if not roosters.

RomeGrower · #6 03/04/13, 11:03 AM

Our city council just voted against it a couple of weeks ago. A homeschooling family in town is being forced to get rid of their 2 or 3 hens. It was prompted by a neighbor complaining. Kind of makes me want to run for office someday.

Maura · #7 03/04/13, 11:04 AM

Zoning is the only problem I can think of. Zoning would not effect gardening, but would effect having livestock. Most homesteaders do not have livestock, not even chickens, but that is what I would look into. Commercial property isn't necessarily within the city limits, so you need to check out what municipality the property is in. Even outside of a city, the municipality may have restrictions as to livestock. For instance, they may require a minimum amount of space (2 acres) in order to have for footed species, but may allow fowl. Some places require a minimum amount of acreage to build a house (five acres in some areas, two acres in others). There is going to be minimum size requirements if you would be on well and septic.

Commercial is different from industrial. While a commercial parcel may have an office building and parking, industrial is likely to have polluted soil (unless the property is simply zoned this way and hasn't been used for com or ind). Property zoned commercial is more valuable than residential or agricultural, unless it has been zoned well ahead of expected use.

7thswan · #8 03/04/13, 11:07 AM

insurance. If it isn't the woodburner,it's the wood cookstove,the barn roof,the dogs, the "tripping hazard" (Piles of wood).....

Silvercreek Farmer · #9 03/04/13, 11:14 AM

I admire your thought process. I work in an area with literally hundreds of abandoned industrial properties that could be used to produce some mighty fine farm products for the community. I often think about it as I am driving by these places daily. You will face an uphill battle if the local government is not on board, but most communities with lots of abondoned industrial property know that it is bad for their community in terms of both economics and appeal and are probably more willing to consider alternative uses now that they ever have been in the past. Check with the local chamber of commerce, economic development group, and see if there is anyone working on re-purposing these properties. If so, get to know them and let them know you are motivated to help. I recently volunteered to sit on an advisory board specificly adressing obsolete buildings, parks, green spaces, ect. If I am selected, you can bet that I will throw out some ideas about gardening/livestock ect...

JLMissouri · #10 03/04/13, 12:56 PM

As Alice already stated in rural Missouri there are not many laws getting in the way. Most state laws in Missouri are common since and for the good of all like the requirements when putting in a septic or lagoon system. I only have first hand experience with Missouri and Kansas which are both unrestricted in the rural areas.

In the city it is much harder. You have that yuppy neighbor who only wants you to have a trimmed lawn and even if his chihauhua makes ten times more noise he probably will have a problem with your chickens. I could never live in a city for these reasons, but I am all for someone who tries to change these laws to give the city dweller more freedom and the ability to produce some of their own food. I am always for getting rid of laws for more freedom.

Money: In my experience it will cost more to start a good homestead in the country just for the reason that you are buying more land and have more options and abilities like tractors, cattle etc. That is not always the case though, if you are fine with marginal land with no utilities it can still be had for under $1000 an acre, even less in some states. If you locate in the bad areas of a city you can buy houses for nothing. I could have bought a nice house with a big yard in the city for the same amount I bought my land for and there wasn't a house on the land. This isn't the case everywhere.

The state of Missouri doesn't have zoning laws per say. In my county the zoning is for taxes only. My property is commercial although it is nowhere near a city, and no restrictions come with that commercial zoning, it was formerly a sawmill.

I see advantages and disadvantages to abandoned commercial and industrial property. The buildings and infastructure can be reused in some cases and they are usually on fertile ground. They can also be close to work and the city as well as services. The disadvantages are trash, pollution, taxes, people and they are usually inside the city limits.

To take something by adverse possession is stealing, no way around it. I wouldn't be comfortable with getting my land by a underhanded tactic like that.

tentance · #11 03/05/13, 08:19 AM

the major legal barriers in urban/suburban homesteading are Homeowner's associations, building codes, and zoning/deed ordinances. sometimes that's a problem for rural too.

like how i can have as many rabbits as i want, but no chickens or quail. some areas can't even have gardening beds in their front yard. that's why i covertly plant in the front. it's not fenced, so anyone can just walk by and take (pretty common with citrus trees here). i've been attending county commisioner's meetings about the chickens. fingers crossed! and while there's no specific ordinance against bees here, i'm pretty sure animal control can remove a hive if they get enough complaints. so if you had a beehive it would have to be covert.

Quote:

You have that yuppy neighbor who only wants you to have a trimmed lawn and even if his chihauhua makes ten times more noise he probably will have a problem with your chickens. I could never live in a city for these reasons,...

I completely agree with this statement. There is always a complainer, so legally they may have no ground to complain but they will do everything possible to make your life harder, including, but not limited to, calling animal services on your pet cat and blasting loud music in brief bursts when you work at night. oh wait, that's my life...sorry. so to keep your urban homestead on the downlow is definitely a consideration. Covert Urban Homesteading

as for salary, whatever you need to do to OWN your own property. landlords don't take kindly to pets or gardening.

good luck trying to change commercial to rural or even residential. the gov't doesn't like to make less tax money on the finite amount of property they have. i'm sure it's possible, maybe you can tell us how??

beaglady · #12 03/05/13, 10:07 AM

IIRC, Philadelphia still operates under William Penn's charter, and some agricultural activities are protected, such as chickens and beekeeping. This farm is in the city http://www.greensgrow.org/ and here's another article about Philly brownfields turned into farms. http://grist.org/article/food-2010-0...preading/full/

If you end up in Harrisburg working for the AG, this farm
http://www.pa.nrcs.usda.gov/news/2012/KYF2_Joshua.html will be nearby.

ET1 SS · #13 03/05/13, 10:54 AM

HOAs make a lot of problems for homesteading.

City regulation on poultry also. My son lives in a town where rabbits are not allowed. Along with pigs, goats, and roosters.

teamswag · #14 03/05/13, 02:25 PM

In Philadelphia we have one the biggest Agriculture schools in the country and is a place I grew up around.
http://webgui.phila.k12.pa.us/schools/s/saul

I wonder what these people do once they graduate?

jolly rabbit · #15 03/05/13, 03:22 PM

I called my city office about zoning laws, "sure you can have rabbits, but only 3, now if you give me your exact address (I gave cross streets about a mile away but still in same zone) I can check to see exactly what you can own" Hahaha, good try lady. You know there would have been an animal control officer at my house the next day.

Chad · #16 03/05/13, 04:44 PM

As far as commercial properties go I would think one legal and potential heath concern is the land itself. What was the land used for before you take it over? I.E. heavy metals in the top soil, that type of thing.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by commercial land.