Has anyone tried an Ice Well for refrigeration?

[Renee]

A few years have past since I brought up the idea of Ice Wells. Has anyone tried using one? I am enamored by the idea but my husband is not. A simplified explanation of the theory is to dig a big pit that is lined with gravel or something to hold water. During the coldest days of the year you pour water into the pit – just enough that it will freeze. The next day you add more until you eventually have a huge chunk of ice underground. (Remember, you can’t add all the water at once because it won’t freeze – just like the water in your cisterns and well doesn’t freeze in the winter. Water is added gradually). Have a grid of pipe or something over the top so no one can fall in and build a little building over it similar to what you would have over a spring house. The huge chunk of ice supposedly will last much longer than ice stored between sawdust in an ice house. After the initial labor of constructing the well it should be easy to fill each winter. Thomas Jefferson had one! Hope I’m not boring you all by bringing this up again but I suspect there are a lot of new members since the last discussion. Blessings, Renee
Some links on constructing an ice well:
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/aben-plans/nd744-1-1.pdf
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/aben-plans/nd744-5-1.pdf
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/aben-plans/nd744-3-1.pdf
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/aben-plans/nd744-4-1.pdf

Re Thomas Jefferson’s well:
In planning for his private ice well, he - in typical Jefferson fashion - took notes on ice houses through Italy, France and Virginia to make sure he had the most effective plan. He built his under the North Terrace, the cooler side of his property, and it was 16 feet below ground, 6 feet above and had an opening 9 inches square so “that a person may not get in at them.” It was used for food preservation as well as for chilled beverages and of course ice cream production. One can just imagine how challenging it would have been to transport tons and tons of ice from the Rivanna River up to the top of the “little mountain.” http://apps.alexandriava.gov/Blog/Ic...-Ice-Well.aspx

[FarmboyBill]

I dont see how, lineing it with gravel woul;d hold water. Id think one would want to plaster it as they did with mopst old time cisterns.
I would also assume that the house built above it is insulated and built thick with shelves, ect.

What would keep the ice clean from people walking above it.

IF there was a iron grill or whatever, to keep people from being on top of the ice, How would one get ice slivers for cold drinks, ice cream ect

[brownegg]

If it's cold enough to freeze outside, I simply use my attached garage to the house as a walk in cooler.....from Sept through May it is colder than the fridge. it works great for kettles of soup, to leftover roast...etc....even the Beer soda and wine is kept there....no way i would ever dig a whole and go through all that work...I'm with your hubby on this one.

brownegg

[fishhead]

I think it would work great and with modern insulation it should last all summer. You could set up a pulley system to raise and lower your food.

I've thought of freezing a block (20'x20') of earth down to 10' by jetting in pvc pipe on 3' grid, Just leave the pipes open all winter and cap them in the spring. Cover the whole area with straw to keep it from warming too fast.

[Renee]

This is not something you build under your house! It is dug somewhere outside on your property. Then a small building is placed over it. Inside the small building you can construct a small door over the pit, which you would open, then place your milk or whatever else you are trying to keep cool during the summer on a grid over the ice.
I can't find the plans that were available online a few years ago. I copied them for my Amish neighbor. He was interested but never had time to dig the pit. They opted to cut ice out of a neighbor's pond to pack in sawdust so they would have refrigeration during the summer. It didn't last as long as they had hoped. This year the ice wasn't very thick so it will probably melt even sooner. That means that I will be freezing ice for them in my freezer all summer again.
No, you can't get a shard of ice from the pit unless you climb in! This is an alternative refrigeration source for people who live without electric, and don't have a spring. Yes it looks like a lot of work but once its constructed all you have to do is add water every winter. No sawing ice out of the pond or river. As far as lining the pit it seems that the plans at the north dakota university link show using gravel.
James Madison also used an ice well. http://apps.alexandriava.gov/Blog/Ic...-Ice-Well.aspx
Perhaps I'm crazy!!!

[Renee]

Yes Fishhead, the ice should last.

[Conhntr]

How do you get the water out once its melted so you can add a little at a time the following winter? I would try to build it into a hillside so i could run some kind of drain out levelw ith the bottom so i could drain the thing!

[jadedhkr]

Interesting idea and a nice alternative to cutting ice. I may have to experiment a bit this year. Thanks for the links.

[Cyngbaeld]

I think it is a lovely idea. You can get someone with a backhoe to dig your well for you. I'm thinking of going off grid once I move from here and was wondering about refrigeration.

[whodunit]

I dont see how it would work as the ground temp would keep the water from freezing.

Mrs Whodunit

[haypoint]

I don't think it would have been much of a challenge to haul ice up from the river, at least not for the ruling class.

It looks like they are talking a hole 16 feet deep. I'm from a very cold area and I can't see it freezing down that deep. The lakes sometimes form ice 3 feet thick. Often, in the dead of winter, under the snow, the ground isn't frozen. Geothermal systems depend on the soil temperature to remain at steady temps well above freezing.
Maybe, maybe, if you could chuck blocks of ice down there, with some water, it might freeze. Kick some snow on too, perhaps. But anyone knows that deep underground, it never freezes. Having the hole open exposing the full 8 foot diameter to frigid air migh induce freezing, but the warm soil below would be melting the ice from the bottom.

Jefferson had lots of different ideas. Some worked and some were failures.

[coolrunnin]

I'm with haypoint I can't see you getting water to freeze in an enclosed insulated 9' deep hole in the ground.

But cutting and storing your ice that way I do see some possibilities.

[kasilofhome]

I promise to dig one of these this summer. I will not have to worry about freezing here due to the depth of the frost line--city water lines burst every winter. But it takes os long in a winter with lots of snow for the frost to go deep. It might be best if next winter I freeze 5 gallon buckets and dump just the ice into the hole to fill it so deep. --I will cheat as I will have use of a dirt digger.

[Renee]

From an article in 1930 reporting on work done by North Dakota State Agricultural College and Saskatchewan Department of Agriculture:

On a well drained, convenient spot, dig a pit 8 ft. square by 9½ ft. deep. Board up the sides with cheap lumber. Dump a layer of coarse gravel on the bottom. Over the hole build a shack with a double plank floor insulated with building paper. When freezing weather arrives pour two to four gallons of water into the pit each day. By the time of spring thaw there will be a block of ice eight feet square by more than six feet thick, on which perishables may be preserved. The ice will not all melt before the autumn freezes come.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,738413,00.html

The plans shown on the ndsu site show a dumb waiter and a drain.
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/aben-plans/nd744-1-1.pdf
I included the Thomas Jefferson and Madison stories to show that this has been done before. I'm sure they had some over the top setup.

If you have a pit 8ft. square by 9.5 ft deep and follow the instructions of adding water in small amounts, it will freeze.

[FarmboyBill]

My grandmom had a thing bought that all the catalog houses sold. It was a cylinder that had several shelves. It had a archway that went over a cistern or well around 6ft high. In the center of the arch was a pulley. At the side of the arch, on one of the posts was a crank with a cable that ran from it to through the pulley and attached at the top of the shaft that held the shelves. I think the shelves rotated, lazy Susan style/ She loaded it with milk butter, ect, and lowered it down to just above the water.
As it was supposed to work, it did, BUT dad said that stuff got spilled into the cistern, which ruined it for whatever reason and they pulled it out, and covered the cistern.- This was in NE Kans.i

[FarmboyBill]

Well R I was going to read it, but it didnt open anymore than you typed on here. I still dont see how, if you have a solid block of ice 6 or 8ft dia, how you can get to the food after it has melted down say 4 or 6ft? Id hate to try to carry a dish of roast beef left over up a ladder to reserve.
I would think, that with the pit dug and filled, and a house built around it with walls say a foot thick, and roof, and shelves built against the walls, that the ice would keep stuff cool on the shelves. you would have to build the house say 8ft from the hole on all sides to allow for say 2ft wide shelves and a walk way.

[CIW]

I'm having some mixed feelings about how to start the use of an ice pit.
Conditions would have to be just right to get the ice to start freezing. If you were to have a large amount of air moving into the building. Say through large, open doors on the north side of the building, would help to freeze the ground inside the pit, in the winter.
The other thing is the location of the pit. It would have to be built on well drained ground. Where I live the water table, even in a dry year, is less than 6 feet. Here you would just end up with covered pond if you dug a hole that deep.
Ok, say you get a hole dug in well drained ground. I suppose that you would have to go out and spray the floor and walls with water the first few times, to seal them so that water could be built up inside. Even if you brick up the inside walls.
Now we have to think about the ambient ground temprature. Its going to be between 50 and 55 f. year around. So, you are going to need to insulate the pit from that incoming heat.
There are people who heat their whole house with underground heat exchangers. Using only the earth as a heat source. That being said they also cool those same homes in the reverse. Thats a subject for another day.
Unless you have a close neighbor who has succeeded with this endevour you would have to be willing to do some experimenting to get this process down.
I would also build it in a grove of trees to help keep the sun off of the building in the summer.
I hope it works. Best of luck.

[oregon woodsmok]

It doesn't sound to me like it would be terribly expensive to build one. So if it is tried and it doesn't work, not much is lost.

[maverickxxx]

I think it could wrk good n shouldn't be a problem getting it freeze with door open cold goes to lowest point an sits. Cold nights produce a lot of ice in a night over an entire lake. A 8 foot wide hole should be able to produce a foot a day prolly pretty easy I think in theory u let the sides freeze before adding any water a sixteen foot hole is a sixteen foot hole it's going to freeze on all sides an the bottom so if u left it open till say mid February ud have a good amount of frost all the way around where u wanted ice n started putting in water at a regular interval u could get your 16' feet pretty quick. Idt think drainage would be a problem cause ice would melt fairly slow so it would just perk naturally.

[FarmboyBill]

It would never work here in Okieland