Grass fed beef on the cheap?

[tinknal]

To start let me state that I am not a fanatic about this but I am aware of the benefits of grass fed beef. While buying some of the 5 pound chubs of beef at wally world I got to thinking of where beef goes when it hits the marketplace. Different classes of cattle get processed into different products. I have some small experience in the beef industry but I am no means an expert when it comes to the production streams of different classes of cattle. So where do them 5 pound chubs come from? First lets look at what I do know.

Prime and choice fat beef; These are young animals (2 years old and under). Fattened in a feedlot, and sometimes "heiferettes", cull cows under 4 years of age that will still produce a good carcass. These cattle produce the "cuts". Steaks, roasts, chuck, round, and so on. Any trim becomes premium burger such as "ground round" or ground chuck".

After this you have distressed cattle; These are sick, thin, and unproductive animals. Dairy cows that have lost quarters or didn't breed back, have become too thin to produce, cannot replace body condition due to over production, feedlot cattle that do not grow after an illness, and elderly beef cows that cannot keep condition. Along with old bulls (baloney bulls), these cattle become processed meat. Baloney, summer sausage, various other "lunch meats", fast food, and pet food.

Veal is another class which is self explanatory.

This all leaves one major class of cattle. Healthy beef cull beef cows. These are otherwise healthy cattle that that are culled because they don't breed back, don't raise a quality calf, have poor mothering instincts, have poor confirmation, or are mean or dangerous. These cattle will not make good "cuts" but make excellent ground beef. It is my contention that this is where most of the beef sold in the 1 to 20 bound chubs come from.

Now you might ask why this is important. This is important because virtually all beef cows would fall under the definition of grass fed beef. Beef cows pasture as long as the grass is grown, and most are on hay over the winter months. Some get corn silage in the winter, which has some grain content and some get a small amount of grain during the same period but in small amounts.

Does anyone here have any experience or information that would confirm or deny this theory?

[Alice In TX/MO]

When you assumed they were all culls, you left out the 50/50 production of male calves that are surplus, but totally healthy before going to the feedlots. There, they are overfed corn products that their digestion is not designed to handle, crowded in with enough other cattle standing in their own feces that they are sick all the time.

Grass fed, even those nice bull calves and steers, may also be on CAFOs eating hay, unfortunately.

I highly recommend that you read The Omnivore's Delimma.

Even here in South Texas, our beef cattle spend the winter on the pasture, but their diet is supplemented with big round bales of hay and "range cubes." We don't do silage in this part of the world. Too hot and humid and labor intensive.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

When you assumed they were all culls, you left out the 50/50 production of male calves that are surplus, but totally healthy before going to the feedlots.

No I didn't Alice, these are the cattle I described here;

"
Prime and choice fat beef; These are young animals (2 years old and under). Fattened in a feedlot, and sometimes "heiferettes", cull cows under 4 years of age that will still produce a good carcass. These cattle produce the "cuts". Steaks, roasts, chuck, round, and so on. Any trim becomes premium burger such as "ground round" or ground chuck". "

[jwal10]

Dairy slaughter cows (including the sick) and old bulls (beef and dairy) go to hamburger, a lot of ice is added....James

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by jwal10

Dairy slaughter cows (including the sick) and old bulls (beef and dairy) go to hamburger, a lot of ice is added....James

jwal, do you have direct knowledge of this or an information source? I'm sure some of this meat does end up as burger but where does it go? As far as that goes most bulls (at least beef bulls) would also qualify as grass fed.

[jwal10]

I used to haul cattle from auction to slaughter. Buyers for the packer would come to the auction and buy. Some of the cheap, poor quality was added to cheapen up the whole. We have a lot of big dairies here, all on concrete confinement....James

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by jwal10

I used to haul cattle from auction to slaughter. Buyers for the packer would come to the auction and buy. Some of the cheap, poor quality was added to cheapen up the whole. We have a lot of big dairies here, all on concrete confinement....James

Thanks jwal. Do you remember the names of the plants and their locations? Do you know what they produced?

[BobbyB]

As far as I know, fat killer cows and bulls go for ground meat and maybe a few other things.

But, I want to say something to Alice's reply.

First, if the yearlings in feedlots stayed sick all the time, there would be no profit and the feeders would loose so much money they'd have to shut down.

Second I haul grain almost daily to 2 of 3 custom feeders that are customers in this general area. I see the lots, how many cattle in how big of a space, conditions of the lots and of the cattle. I see the cowhands working the cattle and how they are treated. And I also see what and in what quantities their feed is mixed.

I have yet to see cattle standing up to their bellies in crap and flies as I hear people say all the time. I also see the lots scraped out periodically.

The cattle are usually laying about chewing cuds the same as all content cattle do.

As far as the feed, the majority of all rations I see is silage. One feeder uses steam rolled corn, some cotton seed meal , but when you pick up a hand full of the mix, its mostly a good smelling silage.

The one I am hauling to most right now feeds silage, steam rolled corn and popped grain sorghum. Popped just like popcorn. Cotton seed or cotton seed meal is also used. And again, when I grab a hand full, it is mostly silage with a few flakes of corn and some popped milo . Not the near all grain diet I hear so much about.

When the grain is cooked, the cattle can digest it and get the benefits from the sugars and such. I also walk to the lots and look at the piles of manure. Aside from being a thicker, slightly grainy texture and browner color, its not much different than pastured cattle.

Today feed lots are not pasture raised cattle for sure, but they are under scrutiny all the time and have to watch what they do.

[haypoint]

I had a 2300 pound 4 year old Angus bull sell at auction. He brought 75 cents a pound. I had no way to market 1000 pounds of lean burger.

In Michigan most cull beef (old dairy cows, old bulls, Scottish Highlands) go to Green Bay. That is all processed beef. Things like the beef in stew, meat sauces.

Hamburger is often trimings from better cattle. Then, boxed, frozen bull meat from New Zeeland is ground into it to lean it up.

Producing a calf is a fixed cost. If you butcher that calf before it is fully grown, you make less money. Feeding grain speeds growth. A full sized grass fed steer will be older than a full sized grain fed steer. An older steer will often be less tender for just that reason. The solution, as I see it, would be to either feed grain (you can feed oats or barley if you want to avoid GMO) or butcher the grass fed cattle at a younger age.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by BobbyB

As far as I know, fat killer cows and bulls go for ground meat and maybe a few other things.

But, I want to say something to Alice's reply.

First, if the yearlings in feedlots stayed sick all the time, there would be no profit and the feeders would loose so much money they'd have to shut down.

Second I haul grain almost daily to 2 of 3 custom feeders that are customers in this general area. I see the lots, how many cattle in how big of a space, conditions of the lots and of the cattle. I see the cowhands working the cattle and how they are treated. And I also see what and in what quantities their feed is mixed.

I have yet to see cattle standing up to their bellies in crap and flies as I hear people say all the time. I also see the lots scraped out periodically.

The cattle are usually laying about chewing cuds the same as all content cattle do.

As far as the feed, the majority of all rations I see is silage. One feeder uses steam rolled corn, some cotton seed meal , but when you pick up a hand full of the mix, its mostly a good smelling silage.

The one I am hauling to most right now feeds silage, steam rolled corn and popped grain sorghum. Popped just like popcorn. Cotton seed or cotton seed meal is also used. And again, when I grab a hand full, it is mostly silage with a few flakes of corn and some popped milo . Not the near all grain diet I hear so much about.

When the grain is cooked, the cattle can digest it and get the benefits from the sugars and such. I also walk to the lots and look at the piles of manure. Aside from being a thicker, slightly grainy texture and browner color, its not much different than pastured cattle.

Today feed lots are not pasture raised cattle for sure, but they are under scrutiny all the time and have to watch what they do.

Bobby, I spent a year riding pens on a good sized feedlot. Most of what you say is true. Insect and manure control are a priority. Packers dock you for manure covered cattle. When feeder cattle first arrive their ration is mostly forage. The forage decreases and grain increases as they grow. Next time you are there look for a pen of fats. Cattle that are nearly ready to head to town. Their ration will be nearly pure grain.

[Wanda]

Tink do a Google search for USDA cow cutout reports and you will be amazed! The meat from these old gals is sold in about the same range of cuts as regular fed cattle. There are some lean trim produced but much more is sold as primals to the food service industry.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by haypoint

I

Producing a calf is a fixed cost. If you butcher that calf before it is fully grown, you make less money. Feeding grain speeds growth. A full sized grass fed steer will be older than a full sized grain fed steer. An older steer will often be less tender for just that reason. The solution, as I see it, would be to either feed grain (you can feed oats or barley if you want to avoid GMO) or butcher the grass fed cattle at a younger age.

Haypoint, I prefer what I call "grass finished". Grass fed, with increasing amounts of grain the last 60 days, while still on full feed grass or hay. IMO this produces the tastiest beef. Not sure what this does to the Omega 3'

[Lazy J]

Originally Posted by BobbyB

As far as I know, fat killer cows and bulls go for ground meat and maybe a few other things.

But, I want to say something to Alice's reply.

First, if the yearlings in feedlots stayed sick all the time, there would be no profit and the feeders would loose so much money they'd have to shut down.

Second I haul grain almost daily to 2 of 3 custom feeders that are customers in this general area. I see the lots, how many cattle in how big of a space, conditions of the lots and of the cattle. I see the cowhands working the cattle and how they are treated. And I also see what and in what quantities their feed is mixed.

I have yet to see cattle standing up to their bellies in crap and flies as I hear people say all the time. I also see the lots scraped out periodically.

The cattle are usually laying about chewing cuds the same as all content cattle do.

As far as the feed, the majority of all rations I see is silage. One feeder uses steam rolled corn, some cotton seed meal , but when you pick up a hand full of the mix, its mostly a good smelling silage.

The one I am hauling to most right now feeds silage, steam rolled corn and popped grain sorghum. Popped just like popcorn. Cotton seed or cotton seed meal is also used. And again, when I grab a hand full, it is mostly silage with a few flakes of corn and some popped milo . Not the near all grain diet I hear so much about.

When the grain is cooked, the cattle can digest it and get the benefits from the sugars and such. I also walk to the lots and look at the piles of manure. Aside from being a thicker, slightly grainy texture and browner color, its not much different than pastured cattle.

Today feed lots are not pasture raised cattle for sure, but they are under scrutiny all the time and have to watch what they do.

Great response!

[Allen W]

Tinknal

A lot of cow meat especially the rounds is finding it's way into processed fast food "steaks" and other processed packaged meat products.

The goal of most hamburger plants is 80% lean. It plays a whole lot into the price of fat cows depending on the time of year.

[BobbyB]

Originally Posted by tinknal

Bobby, I spent a year riding pens on a good sized feedlot. Most of what you say is true. Insect and manure control are a priority. Packers dock you for manure covered cattle. When feeder cattle first arrive their ration is mostly forage. The forage decreases and grain increases as they grow. Next time you are there look for a pen of fats. Cattle that are nearly ready to head to town. Their ration will be nearly pure grain.

I dont doubt the nearly finished cattle get more grain. But I dont think they would want me walking thru the lots just to be doing it. But I'll talk to Sammy who runs the plant and find out what the formula is.

I have been told since I was a kid that cattle can handle grain, but they have to get their systems used to it. I know when we used to turn cattle into a corn field we had just shelled, the piles would be full of whole corn. But after a week or so, the corn was digested better .

I was amazed how handling has changed tho.

I have watched them loading bull wagons with finished cattle and a few days ago they were working about 500 head of fresh yearlings and there is no hollering, or rough handling They push the cattle thru the alleys horseback, then they use a long pole with a blue flag on the end to push and sort. Very quiet and efficient.

I also wanted to add that a couple weeks ago, they had almost 2" of rain at this feed lot. There was no standing water and the mush was just on the surface. They are building some new pens and one of the other feeders is also rebuilding some pens. The first thing they did was haul in crushed limestone base , got it to grade then rolled it in. . It is graded to provide drainage and all water makes its way to large holding ponds where it is used to water green graze for younger stock.

[Marilyn]

I second the post re: reading "The Omnivore's Dilemma", very enlightening and one of the main reasons why our family has only purchased grass fed and grass finished beef since reading it.

DH lost his colon to C-dif (caused by antibiotic consumption) nearly 4 months after the only antibiotic he had consumed in over a year. His doc said we would be surprised to learn how much antibiotic residue is in our food. Feedlot beef has antibiotic mixed into feed on a daily basis in order to keep disease from running through the lot.

Can you see the ground beef in the chub?

Have you bent down and looked up at the lighting over the beef case in the grocery? Every time I check, they have a pink cast.

[arabian knight]

Originally Posted by Marilyn

Have you bent down and looked up at the lighting over the beef case in the grocery? Every time I check, they have a pink cast.

I can't remember how long ago THAT started but that has been going on year sand years.
I also pick my Out Of the Case and look at it not using those lights in the cases./ And if it is inside the butchers case, I have had many of them Take out what you want and you then can LOOK at it. And a GOOD meat counter person will do that.

[tinknal]

I'm just looking for facts on the beef product stream folks, not a debate.

[Steve in PA]

As much as I hate the NYT, I have to cite this article. I was forced to read it as part of indoctrination by my ultra-lib professor who equated eating meat with genocide.

I didn't buy his schtick, but what it did do is force our family to buy from the local butcher after reading the production practice of factory burger meat. It also made me fall in love with the slow money concept.

[BobbyB]

Originally Posted by tinknal

I'm just looking for facts on the beef product stream folks, not a debate.

The auction barns call the culls cutters and canners. The canners as I understand it go for the more processed products. Depending on health, inedible products and then dog food, sausage, lunch meat or canned meat products. The cutters go for ground beef with some of the better cuts going for just what they are.

I know killer bulls are bringing over a buck a pound right now, but there is a lot of burger in a 2000 pound bull past his breeding prime but still good and fat.

Beef products is in a lot of stuff. I saw an exhibit at the stock show a few years back and it showed anti freeze, soaps, polishes, and I cant remember what all but the display had about 30 plus items in it, all made from beef products.