Chimney fix

Megaputz · #1 02/06/13, 01:58 PM

Do not know where to begin...
My home is roughly 20'x28' with 7' ceilings. The house is under 600 sq ft so I was looking for a small wood stove for a secondary heat source. I found one at TSC. Very small, I can fit two 5"x16" pieces of wood in the fire box. http://www.tractorsupply.com/united-...tified-5126762 It is a cute little thing...

The chimney is concrete block with a ceramic liner. It is inside the house 7-8", the siding, clapboard, 4" studs, 1 1/2" gap. It comes out of the roof at the end of the the house offset 6" from the peak.
For some reason they switched to brick once it penetrates the roof (ascetics). The mortar joints for the brick are in need of a touch up. A few of the top bricks are loose and I can pick them up... The liner is in good condition with the exception of the top 6".
It's winter but I was considering doing some repair work. A weather cap was never installed or fell off resulting in the water damage from the looks of it.
In order to use the stove I am going to have to fix the chimney. So I was hoping to find out if what I plan to do would be safe and last till spring. I have used the stove... had to see it how well it works. It works, good and hot, and there is an excellent draft. I was thinking of replacing the top tile liner and increasing the height of the chimney from 32" to at least 36".
Also wanted to know your thoughts on sliding a 6" 24# black stove pipe or single wall stainless into the chimney. As a liner for extra protection and to help with cleaning. The current chimney liner is 6"x6" square. The end product would look something like this http://www.ehow.com/how_7921285_inst...mney-caps.html The chimney it 'self would be ~3' and the iron/stainless would be ~8" higher plus the height of the cap.
Does this all sound safe? I think I can get away with just replacing the top and putting a cap on. The pipe inside is for more piece of mind. At the moment it is 10' from the top of the chimney to the stove pipe opening. There is 8' of pipe from the wood stove to the chimney with 1 elbow, 24# black stove pipe. I want to switching to double wall for the horizontal run and use the black pipe for the chimney liner... use it and buy stainless for the top half that will be exposed to the elements.
The vertical pipe coming out of the stove will be black pipe to a damper, into the elbow to double wall into the chimney, black elbow and the strait vertical run with black/stainless to the cap

solidwoods · #2 02/06/13, 02:37 PM

Can't say much on the chimney except I'd remove it and replace it with 3 wall chimney or what I have the 2 wall SS with insulation inside it (I had to use it because it has the least clearance specs).

The stove- I have the exact same stove.
I sure hope you have lotts of windows in your house because that stove will roast you out.
Top quality built.
I use a piece of metal over the ash hole. I allow a small gap at the back of the ash hole/metal cover. It causes major flame that will burn a hole in any log.
That stove puts out major heat even for our house size.
jim

rambler · #3 02/06/13, 04:47 PM

That sounds very confusing.

Single wall black in the house where you will see problems when it rusts through, still gives off heat.

Double wall stainless where it is in the chimney or outside, I always thought, as it is hidden from view so it needs to be durable, and it get a lot of heat because it can't vent as its covers up, so needs to be good stuff there.

If I read you right you are switching back and forth from single to double to single, don't think that is right, and you are putting the single where the double should be, and the double where the single should be?

But I'm a simple dirt farmer, not a chimney installer so I don't know much. But I'm not at all impressed with the single wall non-stainless inside the chimney, that just doesn't sound right, going to heat up red hot warp and rust and blow out?

Paul

**Cabin Fever** · #4 02/06/13, 04:48 PM

I'm thinking black pipe will rust being in an outdoor environment like the chimney. If it did, it could cause blockage and you may have a very difficult time removing it. If you're going to line your masonry chimney, I'd recommend using stainless steel pipe.

Megaputz · #5 02/06/13, 08:05 PM

That sounds reasonable. Stainless for the inside of the chimney, including the elbow for the upturn coming from the stove.
I will have to run to the store to check (measure) but I tried to get a length of single wall 6" black pipe in there and it barely fits.
The flexible liners, I don't like them. That spiral that runs along the inside is a great trap for creosote buildup. A few lengths of SS screwed and welded together... 2-3 seams. feel much safer with a heavier gage solid pipe than a flex line.

I wanted to switch to a double wall for the horizontal run where the stove pipe runs parallel to the ceiling. The ceiling is only 7' and the hole in the chimney is 4" from the ceiling. I am going to have to knock out a new hole for the exhaust lower in the chimney no matter what. But I still need at least 6' of clearance from the floor. There is a door to the bathroom under the pipe... I may even have to go class A...or triple wall. Really considering it and not sure. That is why I am here.

I thought of protecting the ceiling for the 5' run from the stove elbow to the chimney. I think it may be safe but I don't want to be sorry.
Put 22# sheet metal on the ceiling than a 1" gap than and other 1" gap than another sheet. 3 layers of sheet metal with 2 air gaps. That and a double wall work? Have used it to protect the ceiling with the single wall pipe but that was only 2 days of firing, long term may not be so lucky.

I ripped the sheet rock and fiberglass insulation off the chimney around the hole. Was going to ask the local sheet metal shot to make a box to cover the chimney or install a thimble.

Just frazzled. Most I can hope for is to lower the top of the pipe to maybe 6". Considering just ripping the ceiling in the kitchen out to raise it. Insulate/sheet rock the rafters and build a 2' knee wall, 5/8" sheet rock. That may actually be more simple and cost as much as the pipe... Honestly, I would really consider that option since it would really open up the room and be safer, stovepipe wise.

What is the best way to deal with such little clearance? The bottom of the pipe can't be lower than 6' or I'll end up walking into it. Stick with the sheet metal eye sore. I don't care about looks right now

I'm going to try repairing the chimney cap this weekend. Going to try to take this one paycheck at a time. Any ideas will be welcome

As for the stove. How are you burning it solidwoods? My stove does not have an ash bin. I have burned in it and am impressed with the head output. In a 24 hour period I was able to heat the house with 8 splits of wood. This includes the overnight burn. Woke up to a 60*f house 6* outside. With some nice hot coals in there and only had to add 2 splits and crack the door for a relight and within 30 minutes the house was 75* By then the sides of the splits were burning and I could close the air off. It was another 4 hours before I had to add another split.. the high temperature that day was 15* and the stove kept it an almost constant 75.
Stove pipe and stove temperatures... I went and bought a Rutland Burn Indicator magnetic thermostat and put it on the stove pipe 6" above the collar as per the instructions. http://www.tractorsupply.com/rutland...ometer-3198420 and can reach ~400* If I go up 18" on the stove pipe there is a problem... The stove pipe can reach 350* but it gets incredibly hot in the house. It was 85* with the windows and door open before I saw it read 450*. Stove top temps were in the 600* range. I really hope the thermostat is defective because I did not like burning that hot and never wish to do it again.
After the stove cooled overnight I cleaned and inspected it. Everything seemed ok for the most part but I did notice that one of the two tiles that lay across the back by the vent was warped. The brick that lays in there no longer sits flat and there is now a 1/4" difference warp in the angle iron that runs across the left wall.

This is one of the reasons why I want to install the additional liner. If I have to run the stove comfortably there may be more creosote buildup. I don't mind cleaning/inspecting the chimney once a month for that extra piece of mind. The SS pipe would be simple to clean and inspect for damage. Again, agree that SS would be better because the inside may look great but the outside surface, you would have to pull the pipe to check for corrosion. I'll talk to the sheet metal shop and see if he can get SS in the length I need and maybe even a thicker gage. He can fabricate a tube with one welded seem. He's done that for me with ductwork and his price and craftsmanship are top notch.

Hope this clears things up. If you have any more questions or input it would be helpful

haypoint · #6 02/07/13, 06:56 AM

Not sure I'm understanding the problem and the proposed solution.
If I'm understanding correctly, you have a small wood stove and a chimney that is in good shape, expect the part that is out in the weather. That part is questionable. You want to put a temporary liner that goes from inside the good part of the chimney to 8 inches above the old chimney and then add a cap. Right?
That will work, with the small concern about the bottom of your metal stove pipe. There will be some smoke/heat that can run up the outside of the pipe, in the corners of the clay tile. I guess if that was a concern, you could poke a wad of fiberglass down to near the bottom of the metal stove pipe, in each corner.
If you were thinking of relining the whole chimney, the metal stove pipe may "catch" at the seam between each clay liner. Very few are exactly lined up and it wouldn't take much to stop you from shoving it down. Then, getting an elbow inside the chimney where your stove and stovepipe conect would present trouble.

solidwoods · #7 02/07/13, 07:02 AM

I didn't catch that the TS stove doesn't have an ash pan. My stove is identical except it has an ash pan built into the front of the stand.
I'd install an ash pan in the base.
jim

tinknal · #8 02/07/13, 07:46 AM

I used to clean chimneys and I would never put a steel liner in a clay flue that is basically sound. They are nothing but trouble. I've seen them clogged with creosote so thoroughly that they could not be cleaned. Also, going from 6 inch square to 6 inch round will significantly reduce volume. With the damage just being at the top, and with the heating season being over half over, I would just use it as it is for now and replace and extend the top portion after the heating season.

foxtrapper · #9 02/07/13, 08:06 AM

I have done the black pipe insert. Wasn't a particular hard job. Controlling the descent of the pipe while screwing the next piece in was the most difficult part.

Put a rain cap on top to prevent it from rusting. I didn't and after a few years, the lower elbow rusted through. Would have taken longer if I'd have had a cap on it.

Will it meet code? I'm sure it doesn't. But it's a viable alternative, imo&e.

Getting it back out at the end, now that was quite a job.

o&itw · #10 02/07/13, 01:45 PM

From the stove to the chimney I would use regular (heavy gauge) blued steel duct. I would repair the top of the chimney as you have said and then slide a single wall stainless steel liner down the inside from top down to the inlet. From what I can understand from my firemen friends, a single stainless steel liner inside the clay tile is the safest thing.

Megaputz · #11 02/08/13, 02:31 PM

Solid woods, what stove top temperatures are you getting? The manual give no information on suggested of maximum temperatures. I am curious what you are getting as optimal.
350-450 Stove top temps seem to be the most comfortable for heating the house. At those temperatures the stove seems to cruise for 4-6 hours. I am burning silver maple. After initial 20-30 minute startup there is no visible smoke coming out of flue after startup.

Video below is basically what I do to startup.

I'm going to repair the chimney cap and let run the season. The draft is excellent it is in good condition aside from the top. See if there is any buildup. Thus far I can see a yellow almost sap like substance on the top of the bricks and some of it oozed onto the liner. the liner is not coated though. Is this just the exhaust condensing on the top of the brick and running into chimney...along with the moisture from the snow/rain?
The walls are a little blackened but no more than before. I cleaned 3/4 of a 5 gallon bucket of ash and soot out of the cleanout during initial inspection.

What about the ceiling clearance and the pipe types? Should I stay with the single wall and the heat shield? Or get something better? I thinking better... It is a 5' horizontal run from the chimney to the stove and a elbow running to the stove.
Should I just raise the ceiling? That would cost less than the pipe. The insulation in the attic is worn old fiberglass and only (was) 4" though now it has aged and sunk down to 1". Moving the ceiling up on the stove side would result in a ~3' gain in ceiling height and no height difference on the outside wall. The kitchen is ~12'x10'

Thank you for your help

solidwoods · #12 02/09/13, 08:57 AM

Solid woods, what stove top temperatures are you getting?

I have an oven thermometer, I'll set it on the top of the stove and let you know.
jim