For those of you who believe in heavy mulching...

[LittleRedHen]

I watched that Back To Eden movie this winter and I am all pumped up about mulching my gardens and fruit trees. Last year i had really stressed myself out trying to keep 52 fruit trees, 30ish blueberry bushes (all newly planted) and almost 1/4th acre garden growing without losing them to the drought. I have access to the townships transfer site with two large piles of partially composted wood chips. I also have a wood chipper and woods around me so gaining mulch is just a matter of time but not a big matter of expense. I want to mulch mulch mulch.

How many inches of mulch do I need for it to count? And how far out around a fruit tree do I need to go? I know blueberries have shallow roots so I plan on mulching at least 2 feet out from the base (and expand it each year) I really stressed my plants out last year as I couldn't keep up on watering but hopefully everything comes up this year so I can mulch and do it right. Is there ever a case of too much mulch while using a degree of common sense? Obviously a foot of mulch is too much. Is 3-4 inches too much to start?

[7thswan]

Yes, 3-4 is good for starters. Try to keep the mulch from being up against the base of the bark/stem. Mice will like to live in deep mulch and munching on bark in the winter is good food for rodents. You could mulch all the way out to the drip edge of trees if you wanted. mulch breaks down and becomes food.

[geo in mi]

Originally Posted by LittleRedHen

I watched that Back To Eden movie this winter and I am all pumped up about mulching my gardens and fruit trees. Last year i had really stressed myself out trying to keep 52 fruit trees, 30ish blueberry bushes (all newly planted) and almost 1/4th acre garden growing without losing them to the drought. I have access to the townships transfer site with two large piles of partially composted wood chips. I also have a wood chipper and woods around me so gaining mulch is just a matter of time but not a big matter of expense. I want to mulch mulch mulch.

How many inches of mulch do I need for it to count? And how far out around a fruit tree do I need to go? I know blueberries have shallow roots so I plan on mulching at least 2 feet out from the base (and expand it each year) I really stressed my plants out last year as I couldn't keep up on watering but hopefully everything comes up this year so I can mulch and do it right. Is there ever a case of too much mulch while using a degree of common sense? Obviously a foot of mulch is too much. Is 3-4 inches too much to start?

Well, there's wood chips and there's Eden wood chips, and I suggest you watch the movie again to see what he is talking about. As I recall, he mentioned that the best chips were those from green trimmings--so you could get a good composting effect, a better carbon to nitrogen ratio. If you come across chips from tree trunks and logs, remember you'll be getting a carbon:nitrogen of 100:1 or higher--not a very compostable material and probably it will steal nitrogen(if you have any in your soil)--or just sit there for a long time and give you moisture retention and weed suppresion only. That isn't all bad, but you should be aware of the real soil moisture level that you have in your present location--after the drought we had, and with so little snow and rain, you may be putting dry chips over dry soil--and find you need more water than ever. Just check first.

The typical soil in Michigan is nearly pure sand, so if you are interested in blueberries( and many fruit trees) and don't have lots of organic matter already down in the soil, that which you put on the top won't do much good until it decomposes and gets carried down there by earthworms or tillage. You're basically putting a lid over your soil, and remember, that lid will have to soak up lots of water before any more water reaches the depths below......

geo

[City Bound]

3-4 inches is good. As 7th said avoid touching the base of the plant with the mulch or the plant will rot. Woodchips are alright, but there are other mulches you can use, like grass clippings, straw, reeds, stone, and so-on, and so-on.

Consider ground covers also. Some people plant strawberries at the base of their fruit trees to mulch them. You can also plant flowers and herbs as a living mulch.

get a book on mulch so you can explore your options. Each mulch adds or takes away nutrients from the soil and it alters the PH of the soil. Straw and wood chips are good but they rob nitrogen from the soil as the layer touching the soil surface composts over time.

[dkhern]

dont know type of mulch you have. or even type of trees. over time you could chg ph for blueberries.

[mooman]

Afew shovel fulls of chicken/goat manure mixed in would tip the N:C ratio in the right direction no?

[ronbre]

a lot of it depends on the mulch..make sure what you put on is not repelling rain ..some will..or packing so tightly that it won't allow in the rain and air to the soil.

coarser mulches can be piled higher than mulches that pack together (like leaves) basically some leaves should be mixed with other materials so they don't pack down.

as for out from the plant..that also depends..you should leave a small area around some plants and trees open to prevent mice from nesting in them and nibbling on your tree trunks, if you don't have other protection for them..esp in winter.

generally you want to go to the drip line...which is often less than the root line

[LittleRedHen]

Originally Posted by geo in mi

Well, there's wood chips and there's Eden wood chips, and I suggest you watch the movie again to see what he is talking about. As I recall, he mentioned that the best chips were those from green trimmings--so you could get a good composting effect, a better carbon to nitrogen ratio. If you come across chips from tree trunks and logs, remember you'll be getting a carbon:nitrogen of 100:1 or higher--not a very compostable material and probably it will steal nitrogen(if you have any in your soil)--or just sit there for a long time and give you moisture retention and weed suppresion only. That isn't all bad, but you should be aware of the real soil moisture level that you have in your present location--after the drought we had, and with so little snow and rain, you may be putting dry chips over dry soil--and find you need more water than ever. Just check first.

The typical soil in Michigan is nearly pure sand, so if you are interested in blueberries( and many fruit trees) and don't have lots of organic matter already down in the soil, that which you put on the top won't do much good until it decomposes and gets carried down there by earthworms or tillage. You're basically putting a lid over your soil, and remember, that lid will have to soak up lots of water before any more water reaches the depths below......

geo

I will still be watering them a good bit (putting pvc down so i can get past the mulch) But the mulch should keep the moisture in. Otherwise when i water the garden, the moisture is gone faster than the plant can even absorb. Most of the mulch is branches and pine branches I think. I saw a lot of needles. It is going tot ake me many many years to get my ground right. I am only starting... But it has to be better than dumping water on sand and expecting the plants to get a drink

[LittleRedHen]

By the looks of it, its probably a lot of pine trees.. Might be peoples christmas trees from last year :P Might be some maples in there too. It ranges from really fine to quarter sized andi ts all mixed up. Plus i have my composted cow manure and fresh compost/mulch from my own trees (mostly pine) it should keep it nice and acidic for the blueberries.

[Maura]

I don't know where you live geo, but where I live in Michigan there is a lot of heavy clay.

[fireweed farm]

I used 4-5" + of straw, old hay, grass clippings and manure last summer on the veggies.
The mice found it safe for hiding in, and ended up eating all the carrots, parsnips and beets, and hollowed out any low hanging tomatoes.
Once I got mouse traps out there (hidden in cardboard boxes as to not get birds) I caught quite a few mice. I'm unsure what to do this year as the heavy mulch was great keeping weeds down.

[geo in mi]

Originally Posted by Maura

I don't know where you live geo, but where I live in Michigan there is a lot of heavy clay.

SW Michigan, but there are places that have clay, not mine, though. What I've noticed is that the clay often occurs near river plains and old watershed places..... My ground turns to white sand a few feet down.

Our Habitat For Humanity group ran into two places where they hit clay and had to stop digging for basements and perched the ground floor up pretty high.

And this is why anyone considering buying property in Michigan should probe many places with a post hole digger. On one house we even used an antique auger that had extra screw on pipes and still got a surprise when the excavator came in.

By and large, though, I would have to say that sand prevails...

geo

[LittleRedHen]

I wish I had some clay! mine is Sand sand sand! I am within 5 miles of Lake Michigan. My yard is 20% beach grass, seriously.. sand Thus why I want to mulch because the soil has very little ability to naturally retain moisture. I cannot keep roots moist and the soil temp is unstable- super hot in the sun and extra cool at night because its just sand. I have been working hard over the years to build up top soil (and running critters here and there) I am making progress but if we have another drought it is going to be difficult. I spent 2-3 hours a day out there trying to keep stuff watered. I am pregnant this year and due at the tail end of August so I just cannot make the same time commitment but I still need every bit of the harvest (and more) so if some mulch can help me, i am going to mulch like crazy! mix in some composted cow manure too for some extra nitrogen (to counter act what the composting action of the wood mulch will do) Hopefully over the next 5 years I reduce my work load by over 50% when it comes to watering. I think the trees would at least grow better if they weren't as stressed

[Tabitha]

My experience with mulch, from wood chips to grass clippings, straw, paper, cardboard, spoiled hay, it keeps the soil shaeded from the burning sun, keeps weeds down, conserves moisture and makes a safe haven for voles. We are now inundated with them, you can not make a step anywhere without sinking in. They are worst where it is mulched.

[am1too]

Originally Posted by LittleRedHen

I wish I had some clay! mine is Sand sand sand! I am within 5 miles of Lake Michigan. My yard is 20% beach grass, seriously.. sand Thus why I want to mulch because the soil has very little ability to naturally retain moisture. I cannot keep roots moist and the soil temp is unstable- super hot in the sun and extra cool at night because its just sand. I have been working hard over the years to build up top soil (and running critters here and there) I am making progress but if we have another drought it is going to be difficult. I spent 2-3 hours a day out there trying to keep stuff watered. I am pregnant this year and due at the tail end of August so I just cannot make the same time commitment but I still need every bit of the harvest (and more) so if some mulch can help me, i am going to mulch like crazy! mix in some composted cow manure too for some extra nitrogen (to counter act what the composting action of the wood mulch will do) Hopefully over the next 5 years I reduce my work load by over 50% when it comes to watering. I think the trees would at least grow better if they weren't as stressed

I can not answer for the trees. However for the rest the more organic matter in the soil the better water retention you will have. In the drought last year I did not water my garden until June and had no top mulch. My garden is close to 75%25% sand/compost. That is a bunch of compost (roughly 4" thick). It will get 2" this year. Brings in the earth worms too.

I think forerunner starts his with a foot of compost and adds half that the next year. Well maybe you should read the sticky on compost.

[geo in mi]

Originally Posted by LittleRedHen

I wish I had some clay! mine is Sand sand sand! I am within 5 miles of Lake Michigan. My yard is 20% beach grass, seriously.. sand Thus why I want to mulch because the soil has very little ability to naturally retain moisture. I cannot keep roots moist and the soil temp is unstable- super hot in the sun and extra cool at night because its just sand. I have been working hard over the years to build up top soil (and running critters here and there) I am making progress but if we have another drought it is going to be difficult. I spent 2-3 hours a day out there trying to keep stuff watered. I am pregnant this year and due at the tail end of August so I just cannot make the same time commitment but I still need every bit of the harvest (and more) so if some mulch can help me, i am going to mulch like crazy! mix in some composted cow manure too for some extra nitrogen (to counter act what the composting action of the wood mulch will do) Hopefully over the next 5 years I reduce my work load by over 50% when it comes to watering. I think the trees would at least grow better if they weren't as stressed

Miracle-Grow.............Applied at about half rate, twice as many times as the label recommends. Keeps the water soluble nutrients in the root zone. And of course compost, mulch, manure--and even winter rye, and a rotation system of fallow legume area for the top compost makin's and the root growth turned into the soil. I feel your pain....(as Bill Clinton would say...)

And a hose timer and a sprinkler system.....

geo

[primal1]

I had some basswood chips that i composted for a year and then turned in to my veg garden, I couldn't believe how much better every thing did and where weeds once were a nightmare i found myself able to pull dandelions straight out of the ground without a shovel and getting the whole foot long root!
My goal this year will be to get myself a good wood chipper. If green wood is best, plant yourself a row of willow shrubs, they grow fast and can be taken down to the ground every year

[Haven]

Is heavy mulching suggested for trees? I thought you can suffocate the root system underneath? I don't mean mulching too high up the trunk and rotting it, but heavy mulching out from the tree.

I mulch my trees with rabbit manure mixed with hay and straw waste that falls through the pens and gets mixed in. It's like crack for trees - they love it.

[LittleRedHen]

voles are already a problem here :/ I went a little Caddy Shack on them last year! lol

[K.B.]

Originally Posted by Haven

Is heavy mulching suggested for trees? I thought you can suffocate the root system underneath? I don't mean mulching too high up the trunk and rotting it, but heavy mulching out from the tree.

So long as you avoid mulching up against the tree as you said and you aren't water-logging them some how, heavy mulch should work fine.

Only organic mulches that I wouldn't use too thickly would be intact leaves that mat down too much. Chip/shred them up or let them start rotting before piling them too deep.

The trees will send feeder roots up into the decomposing mulch over the years.